Are Africans incapable of running a country?

[CDNBear]

That is the mission of the Church, to bring truth to the darkness, to open eyes to the majesty of The Church and to make all mankind subject to the Holy Father.

You sound just like a fanatical Muslim Imam, so...

Thanx, but I'll pass.

After the RC Churches involvement in the genocide in Rwanda, I'll take my chances elsewhere.

By Stephanie Nieuwoudt in Kigali (AR No. 85, 1-Dec-06)
More than 50 churches in Rwanda have been turned into museums, but instead of viewing artefacts celebrating life, visitors come here to stare at bones.

They are the remains of human beings killed during the 1994 genocide in this beautiful country of endless green hills. There are the bones of adults and, heartbreakingly, also of babies and toddlers who were hacked to death. Visitors come not to see how life was lived but to remember how people were killed.

These bone museums are a silent indictment against many clergymen who were involved in the genocide, in which some 800,000 ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutus were put to death in just one hundred days - a faster killing rate than that achieved by the Nazis in Germany.

Some of the clergy who have been accused of aiding the killers have been indicted by the Tanzania-based International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, ICTR, some by the traditional village courts called “gacaca”, and others in national courts in Belgium.

http://iwpr.net/?p=acr&s=f&o=325838&apc_state=henpacr

The Church has done more to harm Africa, then help it, by the shear numbers of dead, do I make that case.

 

[I think not]

What an American type attitude! What do you mean "we"? Why are "WE" to be patient? Why does Africa have to conform to US?

For a christian your tolerance levels appear to have hit the bottom. :lol:

 

[Zzarchov]

The funny thing to me is people talk about Colonization of Africa in the past tense.


France is still quite active in unofficial colonization. Instead of installing a governor, they install a dictator. The net result for France and the country is the same. This is getting harder as China starts pumping more money into Africa to compete with france.

From training and arming the militant Hutu's in Rwanda (and encouraging Genocide as a political tool), to the occupation of the Ivory coast, France regards Africa as its personal playground, even still.

 

[CDNBear]

The funny thing to me is people talk about Colonization of Africa in the past tense.


France is still quite active in unofficial colonization. Instead of installing a governor, they install a dictator. The net result for France and the country is the same. This is getting harder as China starts pumping more money into Africa to compete with france.

From training and arming the militant Hutu's in Rwanda (and encouraging Genocide as a political tool), to the occupation of the Ivory coast, France regards Africa as its personal playground, even still.

And yet they stare down their collective noses at the US, almost as hypocritical as the RC Church and its members.

 

[CDNBear]

Africans are more then capable of running their own countries, so long as foriegn exploiters bugger off. That includes the religous types as well.

 

[mabudon]

Careful CDNBear, we're about to agree on something

LINK

That article appeared in The Walrus magazine (not my fave but I ended up with a copy, there's usually one or two alright things in it)

I have since checked into the situation a bit more and most of what that article says is bang-on

I will wait until a few folks read it (I HOPE you do, it's long but REALLYinteresting) before I put any of my thoughts here- CDNBear has come the closest to what the article says in some ways.

Really, if you think "Africans are incapable" of anything, read the article. It points a LOT of fingers at various colonial powers, but I don't think anyone could lay the "blame" anwhere else after readin ti, and fact-checking can bear most of it out solid-like

 

[Toro]

Ghana on the other hand is peaceful and appears headed toward becoming a more just society. Canada should view its support of Ghana as a good longterm investment.

Ghana is peaceful, so that makes it at least a partial success. However, the GDP of Ghana today is the same as it was in 1957, which is astonishing.

So Canada should be encouraging countries like Ghana to grow so it can lift its people out of poverty.

 

[Toro]

Africans are more then capable of running their own countries, so long as foriegn exploiters bugger off. That includes the religous types as well.

The foreign exploiters left a long time ago.

The exploiters are now the rulers of those countries.

Africans are capable of leading themselves. Its just that the leaders aren't.

 

[mabudon]

Read the article I posted, it ain't that simple

 

[darkbeaver]

The foreign exploiters left a long time ago.

The exploiters are now the rulers of those countries.

Africans are capable of leading themselves. Its just that the leaders aren't.

No they didn't.
No they aren't.
Yes they are.

 

[CDNBear]

Read the article I posted, it ain't that simple

That's an understatement mabudon...

That was an excellent article. I appreciated the history lesson the author starts with.

You may find this really hard to beleive mabudon, but you and I are in total agreement on this issue.

I wonder if it's the fact that I can relate to indigenous peoples?

 

[CDNBear]

The foreign exploiters left a long time ago.

The exploiters are now the rulers of those countries.

Africans are capable of leading themselves. Its just that the leaders aren't.

Not at all true Toro, France Russia and China are all still big players in the African theater.

 

[mabudon]

LOL I don't find it hard to believe at all, man, reading what you'd said already on the subject, I knew I was backin ya up (not like you need it eh?? )

Especially telling was the section on foreign aid and the way it works out- hearing so many folks complain about how all the money goes there and "they" somehow squander it makes me madder than ever after reading the take on the facts as presented in the article...

Now I gotta go find some thread where you are WRONG in and get postin (kidding man, as you most certainly know)

 

[Zzarchov]

The foreign exploiters left a long time ago.

The exploiters are now the rulers of those countries.

Africans are capable of leading themselves. Its just that the leaders aren't.

Well those leaders are foreigners in all but semantics.

During official colonization alot of the Governors were local born as were local militias which enforced its rule, does that mean that during Colonization it wasn't foreign run?

 

[CDNBear]

LOL I don't find it hard to believe at all, man, reading what you'd said already on the subject, I knew I was backin ya up (not like you need it eh?? )

Especially telling was the section on foreign aid and the way it works out- hearing so many folks complain about how all the money goes there and "they" somehow squander it makes me madder than ever after reading the take on the facts as presented in the article...

Now I gotta go find some thread where you are WRONG in and get postin (kidding man, as you most certainly know)

Good luck with that, I'm never wrong, lmao!!!

 

[darkbeaver]

Not at all true Toro, France Russia and China are all still big players in the African theater.

There you go Bear, again giving the biggest economic colonist (Uncle Sham) a free pass.

 

[Zzarchov]

Actually, the US itself is a tiny bit player in Africa. Corporations that are US based are another matter. But I don't know if you are familiar with a liberal democracy or not, but the US government can't tell them what to do. Besides, being Multinationals, they are just as much an African institution as an American one.

 

[CDNBear]

There you go Bear, again giving the biggest economic colonist (Uncle Sham) a free pass.

When I googled who hand their fingures in Africas mess, those three entities popped up, I didn't want to make a claim I couldn't back up, unlike you, so I posted the three nations that I had imediate proof of contemporary exploitive actions.

 

[Toro]

No they didn't.
No they aren't.
Yes they are.

Well, if you think "investment" is exploitation, I can't help you there.

Tens of billions of dollars have been stolen by African leaders. In Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea amongst others, the rulers didn't even hide their theft. They literally drove armoured cars to the central banks, loaded up the cars with banknotes, and flew the cash out of the country. Many of the leaders are venal thieves who own villas on the French Riviera, apartments in Manhattan, etc. funded by stealing from their own people. Some are responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of their own people to maintain power. If that's what people define as "competent leadership," that's a bit different than how I would define it.

 

[Toro]

Actually, the US itself is a tiny bit player in Africa. Corporations that are US based are another matter. But I don't know if you are familiar with a liberal democracy or not, but the US government can't tell them what to do. Besides, being Multinationals, they are just as much an African institution as an American one.

And its pay to play in places like Nigeria and Cameroon. You can't do business in many countries if you don't pay kickbacks. And I believe only the US has a law against paying bribes internationally.