Are Africans incapable of running a country?

[amagqira]

I am one of those physicians lured away from africa by the sense of stability and abscence of fear in Canada. My family is immensely grateful to Canada for giving us an opportunity to start anew without fear and with hope for a stable future. Like so many others in Africa, my family has voted with their feet since the ability to change things at the ballotbox in africa is marginal at best.

The article by Gerald Caplan has pinpointed many of the problems that beset africa accurately, but in my opinion africa's salvation has to come from the african people themselves - at the moment africa south of the sahara is a basketcase and most of the people, if given the opportunity, will try to leave and ironically, for the west. If a continent keeps on haemorrhaging its trained people because they do not see a future for themselves and their families, what hope remains for africa?

Unfortunately towards the end of his article Gerald Caplan makes the same mistake he warns people against - intervention. No matter how well meant, it still comes down to intervention. I remain unconvinced that the advice given by him in the final paragraph will make one iota of difference.

Paul Theroux in his book on africa has been as usual brutally honest and sympathetic to the common people in africa and it is well worth a read.

 

[normbc9]

When I served in the military I flew relief supplies into African nations as a part of a UN authorized mission. I found that the tribal aspaects of their system of loyalties means a lot to those cultures. The political boundaries set up in many cases do not consider those allegiances and they are centuries old loyalties. The real issue is who determined the legitimate tribal boundaries and considered those when the new political subdivisioins were established? The Tutsi-Hutu conflicts are also old history and when it happened under the nose of Kofi Ananan who was holed up in a UN paid resort hotel it was no surprise to me. What was shocking was the levels of hate and resentment that surfaced. The rivers ran red with human blood and that was repulsive to me. But it was no surprise to me either. Almost all of the political subdivisions we know in Africa were set-up by white politicians who serve their own agendas and not truly considering the tribal factors which are the true determining factors of the successes of any government. Look at Belgium's failures in the Congo and Britain's in Zimbabwe. I felt they are more than capable of governing themselves if all of the critical factors are considered when any political boudaries are established. The ignorant white "we know best" attitude is the single most contributing factor in the failure in the break down of any African government. When boundaries are being discussed the most important factor to the survival and success of any government is dependent on the input of the local peoples and a real consideration of their input too. They arecapable but they must be an active contributing part of any process.

 

[Pangloss]

How about we just quit sucking money and resources out of the continent? Look at the imbalance in "aid" versus debt servicing (Canada is starting to do its part in debt forgiveness) and underpayments for oil and gas.

Look at the trade restrictions that keep African goods out of the Western nations.

Most of the so-called aid that we send are actually a subsidy for the donor nation's companies: I'll give you a million dollars, but you have to use it to buy these Canadian tractors. Or whatever. Targeted aid. That's exactly what it is.

So perhaps we should think about who our aid dollars really aid.

Speaking of aids, gotta love the Roman Catholic Church telling people not to use condoms - nothing like the population destroying ravages of sexually-borne diseases to keep them darkies down, eh, Pope?

Did somebody here say genocide?

Pangloss

Postscript: good article link mabudon.

 

[mabudon]

Amagqira- Yeah, I was following him right up to the concluding bit where it kind of went off the rails. Thanks for adding your thoughts on this piece, your background makes you a bit more of an authority than I am to be sure- I'll look into that Theroux guy as well, sounds like it's right up my alley

Normbc- Yep- nuff said I think.

Pangloss- Thanks, I actually read the hard-copy originally and it sort of struck me, I did a bit more research and decided that if I was ever gonna wade into a thread like this one, that would be my opening volley- seeems to have been a bit of a thread killer, here and elsewhere, but oh well.Glad it served its purpose finally eh

So I guess the answer to this threads title question is "Sure, as long as they're actually allowed to run the places and not in some kind of indentured limbo"

 

[able]

My knowledge of Africa goes back to grade 12 geography, where names like Orange Free State or Bechuana Land Protectorate were the norm. Unfortunately, when the countries were created, they did not take tribal affairs into consideration, thus, Rwanda with the Hutu/Tutsi problem. Better to have 2 smaller countries, than one where old tribal feuds still smoulder. What bothers me the most about Africa, is that we have been sending money, aid and teachers for over 150 years. This method hasn't worked, so perhaps its time we did something different. Why not leave them to their own devices, sink or swim, at least what develops will be theirs, and of their own invention. Naturally an African defence force sponsored by us would be in order, but at least there would be a made in Africa solution.

 

[Zzarchov]

Pangloss, how can you honestly think that African's dying of Aids have anything to do with the pope saying no condoms. Everytime I hear that I think of the underlying blatant racism, thinking Africans are somehow stupid.

The whole concept of it being "the popes fault", boils down to Africans being too stupid to understand what he means when he says "no extra-marital sex" but then when they engage in extra-marital sex , being blindly loyal to the other thing he said, and not using condoms. Being equally intelligent, they don't use condoms for the same reason we don't. Sex without condoms feels better. They have multiple sexual partners for the same reason we do. Sex is fun. And I'll bet $20 that when they are getting jiggy with it, having unprotected sex with multiple partners..the last thing on their mind is the words of an elderly central european guy in a big hat.

 

[normbc9]

Pangloss, You finally verbalized what I have felt for years. US foreign aid is nothing more than a scripted bribe and an attempt to assert our ideas into the nation accepting the aid. I delivered tons of flour loaded with critters in the bas and lots iof clothing that was not any longer a use to the military so we just gave it away as a value in the foreign aid program. Even obsolete aircraft parts went to nations that didn't even own the type of airplane the parts were designed for. But, it did make good press and it also was good when the politicos went up for re-election. The whole foreign aid idea has to be terminated and those funds used to fix big social problems the US is facing. But, like most politicians do lets create a smoke screen and divert attention from what desperately needs attention.
That is trhe name of the game this very moment in Washington, DC.

 

[EagleSmack]

What an American type attitude! What do you mean "we"? Why are "WE" to be patient? Why does Africa have to conform to US?

So the man who originally made this quote (Tamarin) has the Canadian flag icon and you say it is an American type attitude.

I suppose you think that Canadians are incapable of forming their own opinion unless he or she is of your mindset or in line with your way of thinking. A Canadian said that not an American so leave that out of it.

 

[Pangloss]

Pangloss, how can you honestly think that African's dying of Aids have anything to do with the pope saying no condoms. Everytime I hear that I think of the underlying blatant racism, thinking Africans are somehow stupid.

The whole concept of it being "the popes fault", boils down to Africans being too stupid to understand what he means when he says "no extra-marital sex" but then when they engage in extra-marital sex , being blindly loyal to the other thing he said, and not using condoms. Being equally intelligent, they don't use condoms for the same reason we don't. Sex without condoms feels better. They have multiple sexual partners for the same reason we do. Sex is fun. And I'll bet $20 that when they are getting jiggy with it, having unprotected sex with multiple partners..the last thing on their mind is the words of an elderly central european guy in a big hat.

Yeah, you're right Zzarchov - silly of me to think that religious leaders could possibly have an effect on people's lives - that the Pope might somehow effect how they think or behave.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

Norm, I was actually talking about how Canada gives aid. If that is how the U.S. also does it, well, that's a shame too.

But as this is a Canadian forum (mostly), I write predominately about Canadian politics and policy.

Pangloss

 

[Zzarchov]

Yeah, you're right Zzarchov - silly of me to think that religious leaders could possibly have an effect on people's lives - that the Pope might somehow effect how they think or behave.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Pangloss

Well, make your statement:

A)
He DOES impact their lives, thus they abstain from having extra-marital sex and reduces the spread of AIDS. Because he impacts their lives they never NEED condoms after all. Thus he deserves praise.

B.)
He DOES not impact their lives and thus deserves no credit or blame.

 

[Pangloss]

I was being sarcastic and dismissive.

On purpose.

Pangloss

 

[Zzarchov]

Yes, but you are doing that because you don't have an answer only scorn.

How does the pope preaching abstinence lead to an increase of AIDS, or are you rescinding that? Because at best its baseless anti-catholicism, at worst its "white mans burden" implying Africans are mentally equivalent to toddlers.