Arctic boundary dispute may be heating up

IdRatherBeSkiing

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May 28, 2007
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Certain aspects of the training require knowledge of killing maiming and tactics to employ vast amounts of killing and maiming . It's the army , not the peace corps.

May I ask where you are getting this information? When I was a teenager, I was in Air Cadets. It was a bumer since I had long hair then and had to have it cut. But other than that it was cool.

They did mock training, everything they would do if you were joining the Armed Forces particularly the Air Force but lighter since we were just teenagers. You did learn to fire a rifle on the range. You learned to march. You learned to give and take orders. You learned how to get up at 6AM. You learned to love bad food. You learned to fly. But no where did they even have a course called 'killing and maiming 101'. Please cite your source.
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
May I ask where you are getting this information? When I was a teenager, I was in Air Cadets. It was a bumer since I had long hair then and had to have it cut. But other than that it was cool.

They did mock training, everything they would do if you were joining the Armed Forces particularly the Air Force but lighter since we were just teenagers. You did learn to fire a rifle on the range. You learned to march. You learned to give and take orders. You learned how to get up at 6AM. You learned to love bad food. You learned to fly. But no where did they even have a course called 'killing and maiming 101'. Please cite your source.


summer of 71 or 72.

montreal had this Student Summer Employement Program.
For 65 bucks a week less taxes you did parks clean up you had to be 15.
If you were 16 you could Join the Royal Montreal Regiment and not pay taxes. You were given an Ifantry certificate at the end of 6 weeks which was basic training in the army. complete with going to Camp Farnham for a week and firing FNC2 rifles that as they put it could go through 8 men standing in a line.
In order to hit the target you ruined your face.you had to snuggle the thing tight to use the site and the backfire was hell. an Afternoon at the firing range had us all with face bruises, well not all the ones who did not hit the target did not do it proper....ask an reg....

I was 120 lbs and the smallest pants were a size 32 and i had a 29 waist. We used a can of spary startch on the uniform almost... any way forst day on parade and i'm like there at ease and the Warn officer comes up and goes whats wrong with your web belt...thats this army belt that has holes in it to hold stuff...eveerything was too big for so it was all bunched together looking....so he grabs the buckle and it easily opens and my pants fall to the floor with me shouting at the same time."My pants are too big sir"
everyone looked , he laughed and we all bonded....i think i was not supposed to call him sir for he was an uncommisioned officer.....
ahhhhh the joy .......

in one of the land mine and grenade classes i got back at them.

One thing about the army ...they understand idiots....everyone can be stupid.
so like they passed round this grenade cut in half to show you how it works.
Other dummy grenades. then the real live one comes out. This with ample warning not pull the pin...yup you got it.....kid passes it to me and i go "Is this the pin" holding the handle with care of course but now a live grenade in a class of kids with the pin out ....He went white and slowly came up to me grabing my hands , me letting him of course, and him putting the pin back in.....i played dumb...was brought before the captain and played like i dunno....sorry.....You can't get in trouble in the army for being stupid

ahhhhh the good ole days
not really camp farnham was hell
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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May I ask where you are getting this information? When I was a teenager, I was in Air Cadets. It was a bumer since I had long hair then and had to have it cut. But other than that it was cool.

They did mock training, everything they would do if you were joining the Armed Forces particularly the Air Force but lighter since we were just teenagers. You did learn to fire a rifle on the range. You learned to march. You learned to give and take orders. You learned how to get up at 6AM. You learned to love bad food. You learned to fly. But no where did they even have a course called 'killing and maiming 101'. Please cite your source.

Cadets is nothing like the military. Go into boot camp (or rather you shouldn't, instructors love finding ex cadets and making their life hell). You actually DO get trained on maiming, but congratulations THATS WHAT SOLDIERS DO. You get trained to shoot people in the leg rather than kill them, because then two more soldiers are required to drag that person off to medi-vac (where as a dead person just removes one person from the fight)

Now, I can only tell you about infantry mind you, maybe in the air force they teach you to have pillow fights in luxury hotel rooms :p
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Heh heh heh cadets.
It's just like so basic training.

:sign5:

I think somebody pulled the pin alright. heh heh heh
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
Cadets is nothing like the military. Go into boot camp (or rather you shouldn't, instructors love finding ex cadets and making their life hell). You actually DO get trained on maiming, but congratulations THATS WHAT SOLDIERS DO. You get trained to shoot people in the leg rather than kill them, because then two more soldiers are required to drag that person off to medi-vac (where as a dead person just removes one person from the fight)

Now, I can only tell you about infantry mind you, maybe in the air force they teach you to have pillow fights in luxury hotel rooms :p

Thanks for actually showing a little bit of the reality. The program I was in wasn't the regs or the reserves. It was pretty unique. It had been going on for years and you swore allegance to Queen and country back then. I don't know if we still swear allegance to the Queen when taking the oath. My year I joined they introduced a new provision that you could actually quit before the six weeks was up. Up until that time , not a chance.
LOL on the pillow fights....methinks you were in the Army, no? If so did you train with FNC1's c2's....This reg wouldn't show us but apparently there was this trick where you jammed a wooden matchstick or did something with it to turn the C1 into a C2. Apperantly the C1's barrel could get hot enough to warp from this practice.
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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Thanks for actually showing a little bit of the reality. The program I was in wasn't the regs or the reserves. It was pretty unique. It had been going on for years and you swore allegance to Queen and country back then. I don't know if we still swear allegance to the Queen when taking the oath. My year I joined they introduced a new provision that you could actually quit before the six weeks was up. Up until that time , not a chance.
LOL on the pillow fights....methinks you were in the Army, no? If so did you train with FNC1's c2's....This reg wouldn't show us but apparently there was this trick where you jammed a wooden matchstick or did something with it to turn the C1 into a C2. Apperantly the C1's barrel could get hot enough to warp from this practice.

A welfare cadet "special forces" washout at 15? Oh noesss! Who will ride the short bus into battle? :knob:
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Having been a range-master at the local club in the past, and handled all kinds of firearms, I've also been in the army cadets, and learned taking the FN apart and putting it together (empty)and several other types of armament.
I find it absolutely unbelievable that an instructor would hand a live grenade to a bunch of 15 year olds ....and have a bunch of neophytes fire 308 caliber cartridges out of a semi-auto rifle......what a dream......
 
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May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
Having been a range-master at the local club in the past, and handled all kinds of firearms, I've also been in the army cadets, and learned taking the FN apart and putting it together (empty)and several other types of armament.
I find it absolutely unbelievable that an instructor would hand a live grenade to a bunch of 15 year olds ....and have a bunch of neophytes fire 308 caliber cartridges out of a semi-auto rifle......what a dream......


Look we all know yer agenda here and frankly my lil lap puppy i don't care.
It wasn't air cadets.
do you read or are you gushing so hard to impress your lord and master you just can't.....
I was 16 for starters...
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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If you look at a map, the Americans have a point. The border is only mutually agreed to the shoreline. Offshore, the border should be equal-distant from each shoreline. I'm not saying a 30 degree change of angle is warranted, but the part of the ocean which is closest to the US land should belong to the US. The part of the ocean closest to the Canadian land should belong to Canada. Banks Island also counts as Canadian land.

But if we don't enforce our borders they can become fluid.

Also I know what its like in that area. I was posted at the Mould Bay Weather Station on Prince Patrick Island for over a year.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0003751

I also spent several months in Resolute Bay. I also know the author of the above article.
 
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The 49th parralel is pretty damn clear.
when they bought alaska off russia wasn't there some boundary agreement made back then...or was it like don't go too far that way you might fall off the earth.....
Don't we also have the same dispute with denmark near greenland?
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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If you look at a map, the Americans have a point. The border is only mutually agreed to the shoreline. Offshore, the border should be equal-distant from each shoreline. I'm not saying a 30 degree change of angle is warranted, but the part of the ocean which is closest to the US land should belong to the US. The part of the ocean closest to the Canadian land should belong to Canada. Banks Island also counts as Canadian land.

But if we don't enforce our borders they can become fluid.

Also I know what its like in that area. I was posted at the Mould Bay Weather Station on Prince Patrick Island for over a year.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0003751

I also spent several months in Resolute Bay. I also know the author of the above article.

True, but isn't there some precedent already set? I think it's Saint-Pierre and Miquelon off the East coast that is French? Like Granada is English but just off the coast of Argentina. That sort of thing.

There is a 25 mile limit and a 200 mile limit.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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How about this as a solution:

If two nations dispute a territory, they can choose 9 people they both trust to make the final binding decision. If they cannot find 9 people they can trust in common, then the issue turns over to the UN. Problem solved. Why waste the money of taxpayers trying to make a living over nationalist huffing and puffing? It's completely immoral and childish at that.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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How about this as a solution" Hmm. Getting imaginary solutions out of thin air, will do very little to solve this problem. I guess from your answer Machjo you think the issues in the Arctic are some kind of joke. A few buddies will get together and decide things. Sounds like a fun camping and hunting expedition.

Why not 99 people? Your answer sounds like many Canadians would like to have, "I don't want to get involved, I do not want to get engaged. Things will be fine, another beer please." Would you do this at work if there was a serious issue?
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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How about this as a solution:

If two nations dispute a territory, they can choose 9 people they both trust to make the final binding decision. If they cannot find 9 people they can trust in common, then the issue turns over to the UN. Problem solved. Why waste the money of taxpayers trying to make a living over nationalist huffing and puffing? It's completely immoral and childish at that.

Yes, completely immoral and childish. You know there are people up there right? Canadian citizens who live and pay taxes and obey federal laws, and as such as to receive the full protection of the government they pay into.

It is absolutely childish to hold the opinion that "If they aren't from my neighbourhood they don't matter, let the UN, a forum for nations to debate with no power of law, including genocidal members such as Sudan and ruled by nations such as China, dictate the lifeblood of our citizens"

I mean, can you even begin to see the problem with letting the UN decide.

Lets say American and Canada let the UN decide. If it goes in favour of the USA, they win. If it goes in our favour, America is within its right as a security council member to state this goes against its national security intrests and veto it.

Net result? Either they win, or it doesn't count. Great solution, way to sell your countrymen down the river. But hey, not your problem if a bunch of citizens get sold down the river if it saves on your tax dollars.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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How about this as a solution" Hmm. Getting imaginary solutions out of thin air, will do very little to solve this problem.
Hey, worth a try. Anything out of thin air is better than wasting more money on childish conflicts.

I guess from your answer Machjo you think the issues in the Arctic are some kind of joke.

Not at all. I think jumping to the military solution so fast is some kind of sick joke. We haven't even tried to establish these boundaries through international law yet, and yet are already desirous of militarization! What petty mindedness. Let's establish the boundary through just means via internaitonal law first, and then we could discuss militarization should such laws be violated later. But should such laws be respected from ther on in, no more issue. use the money for the advancement of civilization and not the destruction thereof.

Just look at us, ready to militarize over a piece of land while people are starving in this world. Heck, even the dumbest of animals has a better reason than that when it kills its prey!

Come on, has our culture really degenerated so much that militarization is as far as our imagination can bring us? What ever happened to our education. Has it really degenertated that much. Hey, let's start proving our ability to pick new solutions out of thin air rather than keep to the same solutions of 500 years ago.

A few buddies will get together and decide things. Sounds like a fun camping and hunting expedition.

Why not 99 people? Your answer sounds like many Canadians would like to have, "I don't want to get involved, I do not want to get engaged. Things will be fine, another beer please."

Why not 99? After all, I'd picked it out of thin air, no? And by the way, I don't drink. But good try. So as you can see, I don't tend to follow fashions so blindly, be they militarization or drinking.

Would you do this at work if there was a serious issue?

I always come up with imaginative solutions at work. Most of my collegues do too. We are an international Korean company in China composed of Koreans, Chinese and myself (the only Canadian there), though we had a japanese on our team a while back too. We are involved in education, translation and materials writing between 4 languages regularly, and sometimes 5! And I'm currently trying to link up with a Polish organization! We have no common language between us, though we can limit our communication between two languages to facilitate it (Chinese and Korean, and sometimes English if I'm really stuck). I seldom use English at work except for translation, correction and writing assignments. We've got a mixed bunch of Christian, atheist and other religions, at least one vegetarian, and a wide range of workplace philosophies. For our company to work well, we need a united team. And to have a united team, we need to establish a common corporate culture. This is next to impossible without a common language.

One of our strategies is to get newcomers to learn Chinese as quickly as possible. But it doesn't stop there. Since Koreans like to use English with the Chinese all the time, and sometimes show more interest in English than in Chinese, even in China, this sometimes leads to offense on the part of the Chinese staff.

Then we have differences in educational, translation and business philosophies. Strangely enough, I often find myself agreeing more with the Chinese staff than with the Korean, though one would think of the Koreans as more 'Westernized'. But the management is Korean. Needless to say, the Chinese staff and I get into hot water all the time. But then again, so does the Korean staff, for they do live in an environment foreign to them. Traditional Canadian solutions don't work, since we're not in Canada. Traditional Chinese solutions don't work either since we're not all Chinese. and traditional Korean solutions neither since we're not all Korean. In the end, the only solution is in fact to come up with new ideas, even if from out of thin air.

The situation in the North is the same. we are dealing with a new environment brought on by global warming, without precedent. So let's start off with a good precedent for crying out loud, rather than jumping like a bunch of kids to militarization until we've at least tried diplomacy first. And remember, since this si a new environment, with different players from diffrent nations and cultures with different interests, each experiencing a new situation, we can't just recycle old cold war ideas designed for a completely different geopolitical context from the one today.

Le'ts stop thining like cave men, shall we.