Apocalypse Means Revelation

[MHz]

IMO die after becoming a believer and the Apostles alone were on a mission given to them by Jesus, talk to people and they become believers due to the 'signs following' aspect or you become a believer by reading what they were told to write. Our mission is to hear about the term 'God', it doesn't matter at this time if you are a 'believer without proof' or you demand proof. Proof has to be shown before there can be something called a 'literal version'.
I play the 'odds' games and so far it points to the only 'solution' to it being literal is if God has the same knowledge as someone who is about 400B years old and he can see all the consequences of any action He puts into motion. That would include setting it up so Christ fell in love with the woman who will be His wife for eternity. She actually writes more of the NT than either Peter or Paul.

The two witnesses from Re:11 are the next (and last) two that are ever sent on a mission that also determines they will have an early death.

Zec:4:14:
Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

 

[Ludlow]

Actually when you read many of the passages in the Old Testament you'll find allegory and metaphor. poetry and hyperbole and even a little sarcasm as in Amos 3:6. CS Lewis used this literary style in many of his books such as The Screwtape Letters and Chronicles of Narnia. There was a hidden meaning behind his stories and interesting to try and figure them out. The Old Testament writers used this literary form which, considering their culture and circumstances is pretty amazing.

 

[AnnaG]

In the old books it were the reason struggling with the emotion brought to conjunction by the carnal, the beast, the mud.

Yes, I know that religions prefer unreasoning individuals.

How's his beardship Lester? I hope you haven't worn him out?

He is well. I think he is out helping a neighbour with waterline problems, atm.

To answer your question, DB, both. Christ was once incarnate and is eternally spiritually existent.

I have a mother-in-law like that.

 

[MHz]

Yes, I know that religions prefer unreasoning individuals. He is well. I think he is out helping a neighbour with waterline problems, atm.

I wonder why they can attract so many members.

2Th:2:11:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie:

 

[DaSleeper]

If it wasn't for religion atheists would have nothing to bitch about. A.P.

 

[AnnaG]

I play the 'odds' games and so far it points to the only 'solution' to it being literal is if God has the same knowledge as someone who is about 400B years old and he can see all the consequences of any action He puts into motion.

It looks as if fl. dementia set in about 6000 years ago.

I wonder why they can attract so many members.

Lack of reasoning abilities.

2Th:2:11:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie:

So? The Bible is loaded with guesses and conjectures.

If it wasn't for religion atheists would have nothing to bitch about. A.P.

Just atheists?

 

[Motar]

IMO die after becoming a believer

A particular and potent belief, MHz, which is lived out faithfully.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained." (Revelation 6:9 NIV)

My girls were always encouraged to develop their own thoughts on things. My two oldest have faith that leans toward Christianity. My baby girl is an unbeliever in religion.

Your fatherhood experience is revealed in your kind and respectful interactions with women in particular on this forum, LL.

 

[Ludlow]

A particular and potent belief, MHz, which is lived out faithfully.

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained." (Revelation 6:9 NIV)



Your fatherhood experience is revealed in your kind and respectful interactions with women in particular on this forum, LL.

I never met my grand father as he died in 1950. He was a jolly , heavy set fellow who could play all stringed instruments . My mother loved her father in law. I am told that he would always warn his sons, my dad being one, "they'll be no "black guarding" around the women folk. Maybe that story had an influence on me in regard to that. In addition to having three daughters, I also had five sisters. I tend to be more comfortable interacting with the girls for obvious reasons.

 

[Motar]

I never met my grand father as he died in 1950. He was a jolly , heavy set fellow who could play all stringed instruments . My mother loved her father in law. I am told that he would always warn his sons, my dad being one, "they'll be no "black guarding" around the women folk. Maybe that story had an influence on me in regard to that. In addition to having three daughters, I also had five sisters. I tend to be more comfortable interacting with the girls for obvious reasons.

You have been gifted with a particular gentleness and patience which is evident in the tone and content of your posts, LL. I am grateful to be blessed by your gifting.

 

[Motar]

apocalypse (n.)

late 14c., "revelation, disclosure," from Church Latin apocalypsis "revelation," from Greek apokalyptein "uncover, disclose, reveal," from apo- "from" (see apo-) + kalyptein "to cover, conceal" (see Calypso). The Christian end-of-the-world story is part of the revelation in John of Patmos' book "Apokalypsis" (a title rendered into English as "Apocalypse" c. 1230 and "Revelations" by Wyclif c. 1380). Online Etymology Dictionary

Who or what is being uncovered, disclosed or revealed in the biblical apocalypse?

The events and experiences of this period are so designed to effect the ultimate apocalypse of God in Christ and the definitive revelation of the citizens of God's kingdom.

 

[Motar]

The events and experiences of this period are so designed to effect the ultimate apocalypse of God in Christ and the definitive revelation of the citizens of God's kingdom.

This period is marked by unprecedented self-disclosure by God and unparalleled deception by forces opposed to God's kingdom.

"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." (2 Peter 3:17-18 NIV)

 

[MHz]

1Pe:4:12-18:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[darkbeaver]

This period is marked by unprecedented self-disclosure by God and unparalleled deception by forces opposed to God's kingdom.

"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." (2 Peter 3:17-18 NIV)

Very good advice.

 

[Motar]

1Pe:4:12-18
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Agree, MHz. In the Revelation record, a series of judgments are given, beginning with the letters to the seven churches (the house of God).

 

[Motar]

Very good advice.

Agree, DB. Paul and Peter are both inspired to promote alert sobriety in this period of unrivaled revelation and deception:

"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet." (1 Thessalonians 5:8 NIV)

"Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming." (1 Peter 1 :13 NIV)

 

[MHz]

Agree, MHz. In the Revelation record, a series of judgments are given, beginning with the letters to the seven churches (the house of God).

The judgments associated with the 7 churches can go 1/14 ways depending what you think of God, if that doesn't apply then it is based on what He thinks of you, either way you get to meet Him in person. The ones in good standing are trained to help the ones in poor standing make it across the isle so they can move on as one group. That is why Re:7 lists the first to 'be sealer for immortality' and then lists the last ones to qualify' The last ones are the ones that are resurrected only at Judgment Day at the Great White Throne event. The ones alive for the 1,000 year reign are in the same shape Jesus was the 1st morning after His resurrection. Alive but not glorified, the ones alive at the end of the same day the 2 witnesses are resurrected will receive glorification on earth and the ones who come alive at Judgment Day are in that same state. The 3 levels will be God, Shepherds, Flock and when all are assembled in the same place at the same time then the perfected earth will begin.

The manifestation would be when the 7th trump sounds as being ground zero for being when the 1st day of that earthly reign will begin. 1260 days before that the 5th trump would sound and 4 days before that the 1st trump would sound. To utilize the 1290 days mentioned in Daniel you would include the coals event from heaven as being 30 days in which the 12 tribes are sealed for protection and then members of the 7 Churches that already have a good relationship with God. The final number is not arrived at before the day of the change but the last ones to be sealed for protection would be the 2 witnesses and that is the day that 'proof of God' would be available for the masses if they look for it.
I assume the conversion of Saul would be an example of what a 'coal from the altar of God' would be as well as the scene from Acts:2 when the gift of languages seems to have been first given out as proof that God is in control of what is unfolding.

There is quite a bit of text involved in explaining how all that comes about

 

[Motar]

The judgments associated with the 7 churches can go 1/14 ways depending what you think of God, if that doesn't apply then it is based on what He thinks of you, either way you get to meet Him in person.

I would agree, MHz that the judgments of God are based on what He thinks.

As recorded in the Revelation record, the measured and timely judgments of God are serial and simultaneous, released and restrained, purgative and restorative, accomplishing by the stick what cannot be accomplished by the carrot alone.

Both vindication and vengeance are justly disbursed by the Creator, but created beings determine their own just rewards.

 

[Mowich]

 

[Ludlow]

And lose your sense of wonder as well.

 

[MHz]

When the details are in black and white already then you should park you imagination until the reading lesson is over. Using you imagination rather than opening the book is a losing method.