Anthem ban 'political correctness run wild': Conservative MP

Should Schools be able to:

  • Choose if they Play the Anthem

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • Always play the Anthem

    Votes: 18 62.1%
  • Never play the Anthem

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • Total voters
    29

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
I know the First two Anthems well. First clip looks almost like those pictures were taken on a May1st Day Parade.
In the Ontario schools we sang God Save the Queen or The Maple Leaf Forever.
That changed at about 1964? The Maple Leaf Forever-very offencife to the French.

O'Canada was next along with a new flag. The red Maple leaf-very appropriate for Ontario and Quebec--and perhaps other provinces a basic badge worn by in the 1837 Rebellions Prhaps the Lilly of France should have been included?
I find it difficult to see Hockey Players chewing gum spitting etc. during the Anthem. Canada Day -not promoted, patriotism?

We who came with $20.00, one suitcase filled with ethnic clothes and one or two sentiments thank you for admitting us as immigrants. I hope this goes for all immigrantsregardles. Few of us came to Canada because we had it so good at home. O' Canada should be sung loud and clear. In the USA one goes to any number of meeting and before they start they slap their hands on their chests and the Pledge of Alligence follows. Pressure but as a visitor can't--

Sing, O'Canada we stand on guard for thee, while you can there may be a day when you can't and it probably won't be better.---Opinion-with emotional trappings
The school community can overturn the principal's decision as well as the school board. Many of the children don'wannnaa sing, misbehave and principal gave in to students and teachers rather than build patriotism and pride in Canada
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
They should quit wasting time singing songs and get on with lernin' to reed and rite.

They can do both quite nicely, the song reminds us, who we are, and then on
to learning.
We should never forget who we are, and just take our country for granted, and
sluff off our national anthem, as though it is 'junk' and a waste of time, our
anthem could be 'the star spangled banner', came close at one time, and it could
still be 'god save the queen/king', it was when I was a kid, now we have our own
identity, it is important.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I'm happy to see we have true Canadians here. We now have 14 who voted 'always play the anthem'. Even better. Just have go on re-play all day long, non-stop.

You love to exaggerate and be sarcastic, wonder why, do you have something
against singing the anthem each morning, or even on Monday and Friday, that
is OK too. What is wrong with our anthem in your eyes? Aren't you canadian?
Or, are you a canadian who doesn't want to admit it, or just can't stand being
told what to do, and when there is rules you want to do the opposite.
What is the problem.
Being a canadian, and having an anthem to sing, which brings all of us together
is comforting for me, we all belong to a 'free' country.
Where else would 'you' rather live, and be a citizen, where no one has to give
a rat's a** about a silly anthem.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I am hesitant to correct you, but the largest denomination in English Canada is Catholicism by a country league. The Anglican Church has all but disappeared. Pity, you say?

Spade
:smile:
Even Protestants are Catholics’ just not Roman Catholic – So as usual you are correct Spade
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
Cannuck -not very patriotic are you?-cannuck is sort of a farce!
Were you home educated?
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
Good Forum thread Paxius. Certainly changed the pace Love the Poll -only 23 of us- we are really reaching many people
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
You love to exaggerate and be sarcastic, wonder why, do you have something
against singing the anthem each morning, or even on Monday and Friday, that
is OK too. What is wrong with our anthem in your eyes? Aren't you canadian?
Or, are you a canadian who doesn't want to admit it, or just can't stand being
told what to do, and when there is rules you want to do the opposite.
What is the problem.
Being a canadian, and having an anthem to sing, which brings all of us together
is comforting for me, we all belong to a 'free' country.
Where else would 'you' rather live, and be a citizen, where no one has to give
a rat's a** about a silly anthem.

I'm sorry; I was in my giddy mood when I typed that. My fault for mixing humour with seriousness; always leads to misunderstandings. OK, now on to my serious side:

Though I agree with the necessity of promoting patriotism (a term which I use distinctly from nationalism mind you, which I abhor), I also believe that the reaction to the discontinuation of the daily singing of the anthem is excessive, irrational and showing a lack of understanding of the history and spirit of the anthem itself, which was never meant to be sung in blind tradition. I do think that some kind of ritual is good, be it the anthem, the Lord's Prayer, the Royal anthem, etc. But I also believe that for it to have the desired effect of promoting a healthy patriotism rather than blind nationalism or, inversely, apathy or even rejection, it's important for the participants to participate with understanding. Without that understanding, the ritual becomes blind tradition and means nothing. When people sing the anthem every day without understanding, it's bound to get boring after awhile. Or if they fundamentally disagree with certain passages of the anthem yet are never consulted, then they're bound to resent it.

This is where I beleive we can learn from history. Historically, the anthem meant something. But then again, people also understood it, were consulted on it, were free to discuss it, etc., and never took it for granted or sung it as nothing but blind tradition, dead of spirit. To take but just a few examples:

The Royal anthem: God Save the Queen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Various versions have existed throughout history. Though a 'standard' version exists, even it is not official, and even then the notion of a standard version has been consciously revised over the years in reaction to changing events. To take but one example, in the first assembly of the United Nations in London in January, 1946, the king "ordered the belligerent imperious second stanza of 'God Save the King' rewritten to bring it more into the spirit of the brotherhood of nations."

The verse is as follows:

O Lord, our God, arise, Scatter his enemies, And make them fall. Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all.
In Scouting for Boys in 1908, the second verse is cut out too, probably for the same reason (after all, one reason Lord Baden Powell had created the Scouting movement in the first place was to promote brotherhood among boys across the Empire and not promote blind militarism).

So as we can see, the Royal Anthem was not blinbly imitated nut was rather consciously engaged, which of course makes the singer aware of its meaning, its import, its significance, which naturally brings each verse into question and, therefore, subject to revision as society continues to evolve. Yet that engagement alone alone proved the vitality and relevance of the Royal Anthem.

The Canadian National Anthem:

Like the Royal Anthem, the Canadian national anthem used likewise to be endowed with life and vibrancy. As Canadian society advanced, so did the Anthem. It was first written in French in 1880, then translated into English in 1909. Prior to this, the Royal Anthem and the Maple Leaf forever were competing for the position of national anthem. Afterwards, the new anthem also entered the fray.

The new anthem was revised in 1914, replacing the more archaic but irreligious "thou dost in us command" with the less archaic but more religious "in all thy sons command". In 1926 a fourth verse of a religious nature was added. The Anthem finally became official in 1980. In 1990, councillors for the City of Toronto voted 12-7 to revise "our home and native land" with "our home and cherished land", to take immigrants into account, and proposed "true patriot love in all thy sons command" be changed to "true patriot love in all of us command" to remove potentially sexist and Christian connotations to the verse.

In 2002, a Bill was presented to Parliament to try to change "in all thy sons command" to "in all of us command". And in 2006, the religious reference to God in the English version and to the Cross in the French version were criticized by secularists.

The French and English versions have also been mixed on many occasions by bilingual singers of the anthem. And the 20010 Olimpics will use the phrases "With glowing hearts" and "Des plus brillants exploits".

Our various anthems have a long history of being challenged, revised, polished, re-interpreted, debated, criticized, and that's what keeps them alive. If our children are just expected to blindly recite the anthem without ever engaging it, of course it will mean nothing to them. then it will be but a dead letter. Both the Royal Anthem and the Canadian national anthems have a long history since their births of constant evolution, and that evolution is a reflection of the evolution of our monarchy and society. The day the anthems become but a dead letter to be left unchallenged will be a reflection of how our society shall have ceased to evolve.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Einmensch

It appears that quite a number of people are more than happy to point out past historical offences – but fail to look at the times – not that I am condoning – but as people change so does a country – and I have seen Canada change – in some way for the better but not always.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
Wrong phrasing, you can only ask that question of yourself. I have no problem with that question for myself, but not for all of us.

Then you can only speak for yourself. When you talk about "who we are", you should be willing to express your opinion as to "who we are"

Cannuck -not very patriotic are you?

It would depend on the definition of patriotic. Canada is an inanimate object. I have no love for Canada. I may love some of the things that Canada does or doesn't do as a nation however.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Then you can only speak for yourself. When you talk about "who we are", you should be willing to express your opinion as to "who we are"

We are canadians, that is who I was talking about concerning the singing of our
national anthem, unless one has no citizenship, however how one feels about
who we are 'as canadians' is what you asked, and that is an indiviual decision.
We are canadians in canada singing our national anthem, simple.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
We are canadians,

I understand that.I guess my question should have been what or who are Canadians. Just because you and I may be born or living in the same country, does not mean we have the same views, ambitions or dreams of the future, nor does it mean we are both willing to "stand on guard" for the country.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I understand that.I guess my question should have been what or who are Canadians. Just because you and I may be born or living in the same country, does not mean we have the same views, ambitions or dreams of the future, nor does it mean we are both willing to "stand on guard" for the country.

That's too much for me, I'm against the 'so so' attitude concerning the anthem, I
think it is important, and one should be proud to have the opportunity to sing it
once a day if that is required where they work or go to school. It is not a rock
song that we get sick of in short time, it is 'our' song, and those who whine
that it is 'too' inconvenient to sing it, takes too much of their time, doesn't
like it shoved down their throats, thinks their time is more important , should
pack up their trash and move to tim buc too, I have no respect for them, it is
an example of disrespect for the good life they have as a canadian, and haven't
a clue of 'how' many have to struggle through life in many other places in the
world.
I hate whiners, who sniffle and complain about things that are good in this
country, and their snotty little lives are so important that we should cancel
our song for their benefit, take a hike.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
That's too much for me, I'm against the 'so so' attitude concerning the anthem, I
think it is important, and one should be proud to have the opportunity to sing it
once a day if that is required where they work or go to school. It is not a rock
song that we get sick of in short time, it is 'our' song, and those who whine
that it is 'too' inconvenient to sing it, takes too much of their time, doesn't
like it shoved down their throats, thinks their time is more important , should
pack up their trash and move to tim buc too, I have no respect for them, it is
an example of disrespect for the good life they have as a canadian, and haven't
a clue of 'how' many have to struggle through life in many other places in the
world.
I hate whiners, who sniffle and complain about things that are good in this
country, and their snotty little lives are so important that we should cancel
our song for their benefit, take a hike.

So can I take from your response that the "we" you were referring to in previous posts is not actually "we" meaning all Canadians but rather "we" meaning the folks that believe as you do?

So to rephrase the comment in question, shall we say...

"They can do both quite nicely, the song reminds patriotic Canadians, we are patriotic, and then on to learning.
Patriotic Canadians should never forget they are patriotic, .....

That sounds fine by me. While you may have no respect for those that disagree, I personally believe that the respect of differing opinions is one of the things that makes Canada great...certainly more so than a song.
 
Last edited:

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Anything that is done habitually loses its meaning and vigor. Something, if it is important to you, should only be done on special occasions for maximum impact and emotion. Singing a song every day, even the anthem, ends up being rote without emotion or impact. I can think of quite a few things we had to do as students that became rote and lost all meaning, some to do with school and some religion.

Canada is one of the most beautiful and abundant countries in the world. Unfortunately it is being turned into a garbage heap by people who were forced to repeat over and over again stuff until it all became meaningless. Now they don't even have pride in themselves, let alone their country. Canada is full of non-religious, unpatriotic people because our schools turn out zombies, automatons for the machine.

Canadian patriotism belongs to the dying generation. The young don't care much about anything but mindless consumerism. An old fart once said to me, "Kids today have no respect for anyone or anything." They were taught that by their parents and schools and by the example of us all.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
So can I take from your response that the "we" you were referring to in previous posts is not actually "we" meaning all Canadians but rather "we" meaning the folks that believe as you do?

So to rephrase the comment in question, shall we say...

"They can do both quite nicely, the song reminds patriotic Canadians, we are patriotic, and then on to learning.
Patriotic Canadians should never forget they are patriotic, .....

No-- you can take my response any way you want, I couldn't care less, but what
you say is your take on it, not mine, and if you don't 'get it', it's your loss.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
161
63
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Update:


Parents of Belleisle Elementary signed a petition to get the national anthem back in their school.

N.B. school ordered to resume playing O Canada
CTV.ca | N.B. school ordered to resume playing O Canada

This week the students at Belleisle Elementary School in New Brunswick will sing the national anthem, something they haven't done before classes in over a year.

The principal at Belleisle, Erik Millett, made the decision to eliminate O Canada from the school's morning routine after some complaints from some parents. It was a quiet decision in the fall of 2007, but last week the story made headlines as other parents lobbied the school board to re-instate the anthem during daily announcements. The issue was even raised in the House of Commons.

School district superintendent Zoe Watson decided Sunday to reinstate the singing.

"It is very clear from the communication I have received that people want to see the national anthem played daily at this school," Watson told CTV News.

"I will act in the best interest of the Belleisle Elementary School community and reinstate the playing of the national anthem during daily announcements -- effective immediately".

Susan Boyd, whose daughter Julie attends Belleisle Elementary, is pleased with the decision, but her fight isn't over.

A petition is circulating and people in the community would like the province to introduce legislation on the playing of the anthem in schools. New Brunswick Education Minister Kelly Lamrock has said he will do everything in his power to make morning singings of O Canada mandatory.