And your opinion is? Huron College should open up its Islam course, or shut it down

Goober

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no longer open to auditing students, as more credit students had signed up

Did more sign up or not?

Did they change the parameters of the course. And use a smaller font for Krists sake.

Suddenly many sign up- suddenly the curriculum is changed- suddenly they find out who he is. How did they manage that.

You see one thing I see another.
 

L Gilbert

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The new description doesn't, as they claim, exclude non-Muslims. It seems to indicate that it is not intended to be a forum to debate the legitimacy of Islam.
That could be explained in class, even by an incompetent instructor.

Given the description of the guy, an atheist who worries about the "growing threat of Islamism in London" and spends his free time browsing the websites of local mosques, I can quite easily see how he might be disruptive in a course that people attend to learn public speaking skills.

It isn't like they wanted to completely shut him up. They offered him a spot in a more appropriate class.
So let him in and if he misbehaves, turf him back out.

If the course was strictly for Muslims to enable them to speak publicly about Islam, then the course belongs in an Islamic school.
 

Goober

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It's not my fault you're blind in one eye and can't see through the other.

You are a smart man, so follow the chain of events. I have no issue with your opinion, though it is in error. I can live with that.
 

BornRuff

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That could be explained in class, even by an incompetent instructor.

So let him in and if he misbehaves, turf him back out.

This is all based on speculation, since we only have one side of the story, but it sounds like that is what happened.

Even the best instructor in the world can't make a stubborn adult play along if the person refuses to do so.

Did they change the parameters of the course. And use a smaller font for Krists sake.

Suddenly many sign up- suddenly the curriculum is changed- suddenly they find out who he is. How did they manage that.

You see one thing I see another.

I'm not so sure they changed the parameters of the course so much as they clarified them.

Do you really believe that the course was ever intended to teach people how to speak about the growing threat of Islam? Having someone in a class like that that has no interest in actually learning what the instructor is trying to teach is obviously going to be disruptive to the other students.
 

petros

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College classes are 1 hour three times a week or 1.5 hours twice a week. Does anyone disagree?

Jan 6 First class which he attended. Jan 8 he gets an email saying sorry, credit students have bumped your auditing seat would you be interested in islam and politics?

The class is full and they deny his attempt to attend that class.

Dr. Mattson welcomed him to attend her other course islam and politics so she obviously had nothing against him.

Where the f*ck is the wrong doing?

Is Stromfront doing articles for the National Post these days?

Is Levant writing under a pseudonym?

WTF?
 

L Gilbert

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This is all based on speculation, since we only have one side of the story, but it sounds like that is what happened.

Even the best instructor in the world can't make a stubborn adult play along if the person refuses to do so.
True but such individuals can be turfed from classes or even banned from the school.



I'm not so sure they changed the parameters of the course so much as they clarified them.

Do you really believe that the course was ever intended to teach people how to speak about the growing threat of Islam? Having someone in a class like that that has no interest in actually learning what the instructor is trying to teach is obviously going to be disruptive to the other students.
Like I said, so turf the bugger.
I don't see this as such a big issue (which is my overall point).
 

BornRuff

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True but such individuals can be turfed from classes or even banned from the school.



Like I said, so turf the bugger.
I don't see this as such a big issue (which is my overall point).

Schools are obviously touchy about this kind of thing, because they don't want it to appear as if they are censoring people because of their views or whatever else.

It seems like they tried to direct him into a more appropriate venue for his ideas, but it doesn't really sound like he had any interest in that. It seemed like he had a somewhat subversive goal.
 

taxslave

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Why would an atheist be worried about Islam?

The threat of spreading islam is much much more of a concern to an atheist than a believer for the simple reason that now we have two groups of fanatics threatening us if we don't conform to their narrow minded views. THere is really not a lot of difference between a muslim fundy and a christian fundy.
 

L Gilbert

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Schools are obviously touchy about this kind of thing, because they don't want it to appear as if they are censoring people because of their views or whatever else.

It seems like they tried to direct him into a more appropriate venue for his ideas, but it doesn't really sound like he had any interest in that. It seemed like he had a somewhat subversive goal.
Yeah, schools are funny critters at times.
 

Zipperfish

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Yeah sounds like he went looking for trouble and found it. Like the dude that tried to join the women's only fitness club. Or the femalereporter that wanted in to the men's locker room for post-game interviews. Always someone with an ax to grind. Not sure its news in my book though.
 

Goober

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Yeah sounds like he went looking for trouble and found it. Like the dude that tried to join the women's only fitness club. Or the femalereporter that wanted in to the men's locker room for post-game interviews. Always someone with an ax to grind. Not sure its news in my book though.
I agree he had an agenda but he met the standards for the course - I also see that the College bent, changed the syllabus, suddenly a slew allied for the course- 2 agendas-
 

BornRuff

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I agree he had an agenda but he met the standards for the course - I also see that the College bent, changed the syllabus, suddenly a slew allied for the course- 2 agendas-

Does it really sound to you like the course changed at all from how it was intended in the first place?
 

BornRuff

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Yes it does. Perhaps I am missing something but from what I read it did indeed change.

I am not asking if the wording changed in the syllabus, I am asking if you think the actual intended purpose of the course changed.

Look at the schedule for the course:

SCHEDULE

Part One: Preaching in the Mosque and other Religious Settings

(January 6th) Week One: Introduction to Class

(January 13th) Week Two: The History and Forms of Preaching in Islam

(January 20nd) Week Three: Understanding the North American Muslim Congregation

(January 27th) Week Four: Preaching Form, Impact and Outcomes
Guest Lecturer: Rev. Todd Townshend, Dean of Theology, Huron University College

(February 3th) Week Five: The Friday Sermon

(February 10th)Week Six: Context and Content
Guest lecturer: Chaplain Sohaib Sultan, Princeton University

(February 17th) Reading Week

(February 24th) Week Seven: Special Occasions: Marriage, Funerals, Eid
*Oral delivery of written special occasion prayer or short speech
Guest Expert: Mr. Peter Groom on voice projection

(March 3rd) Week Eight: Sermons
*Sermons delivered in class; all students participate through group feedback.

Part Two: Public Speaking about Islam

(March 10th) Week Nine: Knowing your Audience

(March 17th) Week Ten: Choosing a topic and FAQs about Islam

(March 24th) Week Eleven: Presentations about Islam
*Presentations to class; all students participate through group feedback.

Part Three: Public Prayer and Worship

(March 31st) Week Twelve: Supplications and blessings

(April 7th) Week Thirteen: Worship in interfaith and multi-faith events

It is pretty clear what the intention of the course is. It also seems like he wanted to kind of hijack the class.

He felt in fact that his presence would be valuable in that Islamic preachers would be speaking to non-Muslims like himself and his feedback to them would be helpful to their education.

It is great if you think that would be fun, but if that isn't the intention of the class, you need to play along or find a more appropriate venue.
 

Goober

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I am not asking if the wording changed in the syllabus, I am asking if you think the actual intended purpose of the course changed.

Look at the schedule for the course:



It is pretty clear what the intention of the course is. It also seems like he wanted to kind of hijack the class.



It is great if you think that would be fun, but if that isn't the intention of the class, you need to play along or find a more appropriate venue.

No I do not think it would be fun. Both had agendas - his was first- the Colleges was second - and the article states the syllabus did change.
 

BornRuff

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No I do not think it would be fun. Both had agendas - his was first- the Colleges was second - and the article states the syllabus did change.

I am not asking if the wording changed in the syllabus, I am asking if you think the actual intended purpose of the course changed.

The only "agenda" that I can really see on the schools side is that they wanted the course to proceed as it was intended in the first place.