Alberta, the rest of Canada feels your pain

B00Mer

Make Canada Great Again
Sep 6, 2008
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Rent Free in Your Head
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Alberta, the rest of Canada feels your pain



Alberta’s pain is Canada’s too. The whole country loses when a downdraft hits the province’s economy, principally its fossil fuel sector.

Migration to the province has slowed or halted. Remittances have shrivelled from workers who migrated away from their families in Atlantic Canada, Ontario and Quebec. Contracts dried up in Central Canada for material needed in the energy and construction industries.

The Conference Board predicts oil and gas producers will register a pre-tax loss of $2-billion in 2015, which means less money for Ottawa from corporate taxes, and for Alberta from royalties and other assessments.

The Alberta downturn is quite staggering. The government has gone from surplus to a $6.1-billion deficit, with three more years of deficits to come. The “rainy day” fund to cushion provincial finances against economic slowdowns is gone. The unemployment rate jumped 2.2 points in a year. Each week brings news of new layoffs from cancelled, delayed or trimmed fossil-fuel projects.

About 63,500 jobs were lost in Alberta in the first eight months of 2015, a third of them in oil and gas and about half in construction.

The ripple effect is terrible for affected families and the companies on which they relied. Government stimulus spending can’t fill the private-sector gap. It can only soften the blow a little.

But the effects are nationwide, because for years Alberta acted as a sponge. It soaked up labour from every province, some more than others, and provided those who found employment there better wages at more productive jobs than they had before. The net gain for Canada was impressive.

A study for the Centre for the Study of Living Standards in Ottawa tries to quantify the gains. It found that from 1987 to 2014, Alberta gained 433,851 people from new interprovincial migration, while British Columbia gained 331,083.


Ebbs and flows naturally occurred during that period, but since 1996, Alberta has been the major destination. The flow of people was closely related to the price of oil.

The cumulative net economic impact of migration through the 1987-2014 period, according to the centre’s estimates, added almost $146-billion to Canada’s gross domestic product. This gain occurred because people migrated to better-paying jobs, often tied to higher-productivity activities, in a country with chronic productivity challenges.

This estimate, of course, undervalues the impact of migration. Among the thousands of workers who migrated from Atlantic Canada were many who worked part of the year in Alberta’s energy industries, went home for part of the year, but sent money back to their families throughout the year.

These remittances don’t show up in statistics, but they helped families throughout Atlantic Canada who otherwise would have had to rely on income from piecemeal work and employment insurance.

The Alberta downdraft will dry up employment, slow down migration and reduce remittances. For Atlantic Canadian provinces already defined by slow-growth, low-productivity, high-unemployment economies, the effects will be widespread and painful.

Alberta’s arrivals were different demographically than British Columbia’s, as shown in a recent monograph by the B.C. Business Council. During the past decade, the most prominent age cohort of migrants to B.C. was 45 to 64 years old, whereas Alberta attracted 18 to 44 year olds.

The B.C. paper, however, points to the national impact of Alberta’s woes. It says: “An Alberta that is no longer able to absorb large numbers of Canadians looking for better opportunities is likely to have adverse consequences for the entire national economy and labour market.”

New climate-change requirements and higher corporate taxes from the provincial government, coupled with prospects for a prolonged period of very low oil and natural gas prices, suggest the Alberta downdraft will continue to be severe and will spread over many years.

It might be thought outside the province that Alberta’s downdraft are that province’s alone. As migration patterns and productivity studies show, those woes reverberate across the entire country.

source: Alberta, the rest of Canada feels your pain - The Globe and Mail
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Does anyone besides me find it strange that the new idiot in Ottawa and the moron in Alberta are doing nothing to help develop new markets for Alberta's oil. In fact the two of them are actively impeding market expansion. The same with coal from both BC and Alberta. One would expect that the leaders would be at least pushing for expanding markets in Canada if not overseas.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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Does anyone besides me find it strange that the new idiot in Ottawa and the moron in Alberta are doing nothing to help develop new markets for Alberta's oil. In fact the two of them are actively impeding market expansion. The same with coal from both BC and Alberta. One would expect that the leaders would be at least pushing for expanding markets in Canada if not overseas.

Angela Merkel are talking to the Australians about buying petroleum from them. Why aren't we? (Oh yeah. The Americans won't like us exporting "their" oil that gives them "energy independence"). Anyway, we have no oil pipelines to any if our coasts, just to the Gulf of Mexico.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Vancouver Island
Angela Merkel are talking to the Australians about buying petroleum from them. Why aren't we? (Oh yeah. The Americans won't like us exporting "their" oil that gives them "energy independence"). Anyway, we have no oil pipelines to any if our coasts, just to the Gulf of Mexico.

DOn't you find it odd that there are people in this country that are opposed to those pipelines? (Actually Kinder Morgan has a small one to Burnaby)AND they are even using American money to fight improving the Canadian economy.
Maybe all those draft dodgers and deserters that came here in the 60s and 70s are really sleeper cells waitin for the call to destroy Canada?
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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DOn't you find it odd that there are people in this country that are opposed to those pipelines? (Actually Kinder Morgan has a small one to Burnaby)AND they are even using American money to fight improving the Canadian economy.
Maybe all those draft dodgers and deserters that came here in the 60s and 70s are really sleeper cells waitin for the call to destroy Canada?

Well, one of them anyway was killed by the Americans. I find that to be pretty odd considereping that they would be the prime benefactors of it as they "Drink Canada Dry".
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Does anyone besides me find it strange that the new idiot in Ottawa and the moron in Alberta are doing nothing to help develop new markets for Alberta's oil. In fact the two of them are actively impeding market expansion. The same with coal from both BC and Alberta. One would expect that the leaders would be at least pushing for expanding markets in Canada if not overseas.

"Coal" has become a swear word and as for oil the cost of extraction must be close to what the stuff is worth. :)
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
Yes, indeed.

Get well soon.
Alberta in a downturn is still better off because we can also grow food, a little or a lot. Those are fields and forests in the background. Sometimes a forest should remain a forest until the fields are all producing at max. Hemp is still a start-up industry.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Alberta in a downturn is still better off because we can also grow food, a little or a lot. Those are fields and forests in the background. Sometimes a forest should remain a forest until the fields are all producing at max. Hemp is still a start-up industry.

Until someone figures out some good hemp recipes, an edible crop might be a plan!
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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DOn't you find it odd that there are people in this country that are opposed to those pipelines? (Actually Kinder Morgan has a small one to Burnaby)AND they are even using American money to fight improving the Canadian economy.
Maybe all those draft dodgers and deserters that came here in the 60s and 70s are really sleeper cells waitin for the call to destroy Canada?
I always thought David Hahn was brought to this Island to do much the same. BC Ferries wasn't a problem before he came here. Sent the bldg. of new ships to Germany ?? and then raised ferry fees so high that American tourists quit coming. The (now called) Environmentalists - formerly Tree Huggers, cannot seem to see the job actions there will be if the pipeline goes through. The oil is being transported through rail lines and trucks now. The pipeline is safer and it will bring tons of work. Two sets of protesters - Those on welfare with nothing better to do and those with high paying jobs that do not involve the ocean or the forest so they really don't care, they just whine about something for the sake of whining Warren what's his name (super rich guy) will lose millions if his trains stop transporting oil. Him and Obama get along more than just fine.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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Does anyone besides me find it strange that the new idiot in Ottawa and the moron in Alberta are doing nothing to help develop new markets for Alberta's oil. In fact the two of them are actively impeding market expansion. The same with coal from both BC and Alberta. One would expect that the leaders would be at least pushing for expanding markets in Canada if not overseas.



Maybe you should suggest where these new markets are in this age of potentially $20.00 barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia.......

Angela Merkel are talking to the Australians about buying petroleum from them. Why aren't we? (Oh yeah. The Americans won't like us exporting "their" oil that gives them "energy independence"). Anyway, we have no oil pipelines to any if our coasts, just to the Gulf of Mexico.

You best post a link to a news article that says Germany wants to buy Oil from Ozland as that sounds far fetched on it's own......

Maybe you should suggest where these new markets are in this age of potentially $20.00 barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia.......



You best post a link to a news article that says Germany wants to buy Oil from Ozland as that sounds far fetched on it's own......

And let's give Ontario some credit. At least no one is suggesting we 'Let the Western bastards freeze in the dark'......
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
Maybe you should suggest where these new markets are in this age of potentially $20.00 barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia.......



You best post a link to a news article that says Germany wants to buy Oil from Ozland as that sounds far fetched on it's own......
Slave reminds me of the old days when "white folk" used to sit around in bars complaining that the "rag heads" were stealin' all their jobs down at the mill. Never occurred to them that the reason was that the "rag heads" were willing to work while the "white folk" were sitting around in bars drinking beer.

The oil industry is dead and good riddance. Alberta is in pain because they put all their eggs in one basket. Silly move and not very forward thinking.

Until someone figures out some good hemp recipes, an edible crop might be a plan!
I posted all the products that can be made from hemp a while back. The seeds produce a hundreds of pounds of protein and edible oil that is far superior to any other food as it is in perfect balance with the needs of the human body. It also makes superior paper, clothing, building material, lubricants, plastics (biodegradable), fuel and it is annually renewable. It doesn't need a lot of fertilizer or pesticides and is much easier on the environment than oil production, especially the oil sands. And you don't need expensive pipelines, won't damage our coasts and can be handled and shipped with existing infrastructure.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
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Hemp was the 'Oil' of it's time.


The biggest downfall was when the DuPonts paid off American politicians to go with nylon versus hemp.....

Oil Prices Face Grim Future as Demand Growth Slows

more: Oil Prices Face Grim Future as Demand Growth Slows - NASDAQ.com



Hemp sails & rope carried Columbus to the Americas in 1492. Columbus boat carried hemp seed for use in case of shipwreck to grow crops for raw materials & as a source of nutrition.



* George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers GREW HEMP; (Washington and Jefferson Diaries). Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America. Hemp was in such demand in the colonies that taxes could be paid in hemp & fines were levied against farmers who did not grow hemp!


* Benjamin Franklin owned one of the first paper mills in America and it processed hemp. Also, the War of 1812 was fought over hemp. Napoleon wanted to cut off Moscow's export to England (Emperor Wears No Clothes, Jack Herer).

* For thousands of years, 90% of all ships' sails and rope were made from hemp. The word 'canvas' is Dutch for cannabis; .

Hemp Facts | Hemp Technologies Collective
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I always thought David Hahn was brought to this Island to do much the same. BC Ferries wasn't a problem before he came here. Sent the bldg. of new ships to Germany ?? and then raised ferry fees so high that American tourists quit coming. The (now called) Environmentalists - formerly Tree Huggers, cannot seem to see the job actions there will be if the pipeline goes through. The oil is being transported through rail lines and trucks now. The pipeline is safer and it will bring tons of work. Two sets of protesters - Those on welfare with nothing better to do and those with high paying jobs that do not involve the ocean or the forest so they really don't care, they just whine about something for the sake of whining Warren what's his name (super rich guy) will lose millions if his trains stop transporting oil. Him and Obama get along more than just fine.

Huh, David Hahn- that swine was bleeding us to the tune of $million a year! Who imported him? Glen Clark or Gordon Campbell?
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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The future doesn't look good for rising Oil prices so I'm still suggesting a Made In Canada price for Made in Canada products that will keep the workers working....


As oil crashes through US$35 a barrel in New York, some producers are already living with the reality of much lower prices.

A mix of Mexican crudes is already valued at less than US$28, an 11-year low, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Iraq is offering its heaviest variety of oil to buyers in Asia for about US$25. In western Canada, some producers are selling for less than US$22 a barrel.

While the prices of benchmarks West Texas Intermediate and Brent hover in the US$30s, they represent a category of crude — light and low in sulfur — that is more highly valued because it’s easier to refine. Some producers of thicker, blacker and more sulfurous varieties have suffered heavier losses and are already living in the US$20s.

A blend of Mexican crude has plunged 73 per cent in 18 months to US$27.74 on Dec. 11, its lowest level since 2004, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Venezuela is experiencing similar lows. Western Canada Select, which is heavy and sulfurous, has slumped 75 per cent to US$21.82, the least in seven years. Other varieties including Ecuador’s Oriente, Saudi Arabia’s Arab Heavy and Iraq’s Basrah Heavy were selling below US$30, the data show.

Crudes of this type trade at a discount to lighter varieties because to process them “refiners have to invest in upgrading facilities such as coking plants, which are very expensive,” KBC’s Ul-Haq said.

“Most places in the world, a lot of the producers they don’t really get the Brent price, and they don’t get the WTI price,” Torbjoern Kjus, an analyst at DNB ASA in Oslo, said by phone. “It’s really a dramatic situation that really cannot continue for a very long time for many producers.”

http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/never-mind-35-canadas-oil-is-selling-for-closer-to-20