AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Seriously. What source of energy are you using right now to post this?

I'm burning coal and sour gas while the cheap hydro is sold to industry to make steel for really really long 36 inch pipelines for more Cdn heavy oil to be burned in the USA.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Okay??

Cutting emissions doesn't mean we will all of a sudden stop producing enough from existing resources.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Yea, while I think we all contribute something, it really is the corporations who are doing the most damage. I'm pretty sure they alone can take responsibility and have a reasonably positive effect. Shouldn't this carbon tax be exclusive to them?

No.....change won't happen until it costs people money.

A good example for me is the state of public transit in Southern Ontario.....expensive and poor quality.

It dosen't make people get on it when the car is better.

Take revenue from a carbon tax and improve the system while lowering the fare to nickles.

I have been around a bit and they are kicking our butts in places like Europe and China when it comes to getting people around.

It's the can'tservative agenda of tax cuts as their vision that prevents this.

We can do better.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Okay??

Cutting emissions doesn't mean we will all of a sudden stop producing enough from existing resources.
My Government says that because they inject CO2 imported from Minnesota into the Bakken to produce more oil that all the coal and sour gas burning homes in SK are covered because we use the hydro to recycle 300Mt of steel an hour to build oil pipeline pipe.

Isn't that just grand?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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No.....change won't happen until it costs people money.

A good example for me is the state of public transit in Southern Ontario.....expensive and poor quality.

It dosen't make people get on it when the car is better.

This is true. I live in Mississauga and commute to Toronto. Even with ridiculous gas prices and the length of the commute, it still costs more and takes longer to take public transport. I'd rather save the gas and switch, but it's such a horrible alternative right now that I can't - and the new Toronto mayor is just making things worse by having segmented subway lines that don't connect all of the GTA.

My Government says that because they inject CO2 imported from Minnesota into the Bakken to produce more oil that all the coal and sour gas burning homes in SK are covered because we use the hydro to recycle 300Mt of steel an hour to build oil pipeline pipe.

Isn't that just grand?

Yes, Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS). But that comes with its own problems because of leakage and changes to air quality.

The theoretical merit of CCS systems is the reduction of CO2 emissions by up to 90%, depending on plant type. Generally, environmental effects from use of CCS arise during power production, CO2 capture, transport and storage. Issues relating to storage are discussed in those sections.

Additional energy is required for CO2 capture, and this means that substantially more fuel has to be used, depending on the plant type. For new supercritical pulverized coal (PC) plants using current technology, the extra energy requirements range from 24-40%, while for natural gas combined cycle (NGCC) plants the range is 11-22% and for coal-based gasification combined cycle (IGCC) systems it is 14-25% [IPCC, 2005]. Obviously, fuel use and environmental problems arising from mining and extraction of coal or gas increase accordingly. Plants equipped with flue gas desulfurization (FGD) systems for SO2 control require proportionally greater amounts of limestone and systems equipped with SCR systems for NOX require proportionally greater amounts of ammonia.

IPCC has provided estimates of air emissions from various CCS plant designs (see table below). While CO2 is drastically reduced (though never completely captured), emissions of air pollutants increase significantly, generally due to the energy penalty of capture. Hence, the use of CCS entails a reduction in air quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage#Leakage
 
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mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Get a boat.

The CO2 plant in Minnesota uses Manitoba hydro and SK power coal/sour gas.

Carbon Capture & Storage Project - SaskPower

Hey, I'm on board for trying all kinds of alternatives in the short term. But it's good to make sure we're not drinking the kool-aid without looking at all the facts.. Even the Pembina Institute in Calgary is looking at all angles..


Key Environmental and Liability Concerns

CCS could affect the local environment...
- Dissolved subsurface CO2 may affect groundwater chemistry.
- Fluids displaced by injected CO2 may contaminate drinking water, damage mineral resources, or induce seismicity.
- Storage leaks could lead to potentially dangerous concentrations of CO2 in a local area, posing a threat to human, animal and plant
health.
- Pipeline leaks may pose localized risks similar to those from existing hydrocarbon pipelines.

The IPCC estimates that the local risks are comparable to the risks associated with current activities such as natural gas storage.

CCS still raises broader environmental concerns:
- CCS for enhanced oil recovery may not result in a net reduction of GHG emissions.
- CCS may not offer the ancillary benefits provided by other GHG reduction options.
- CCS requires more energy than a project without CCS, amplifying the non-climate impacts of resource extraction (e.g. land-use impacts of coal mining).
- Some CCS processes require significant water consumption, as well as the use and disposal of toxics.
- Public investments in CCS could take resources and focus away from other climate change mitigation options.

Regulations are needed
Regulations in Canada do not yet address many of the issues unique to CCS. Issues that need to be addressed include:
- commercially feasible rules for long-term liability;
- access to and ownership of large reservoirs;
- measurement, monitoring, verification and reporting frameworks;
- acceptable levels of risk.

The Petroleum Technology Research Centre in Regina manages the world’s largest CO2 storage project.

http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/ccs-fact-sheet.pdf
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I never said they sprung a leak. In fact leaks are the least likely problem - even your dreaded IPCC acknowledges this, lol
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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It's all a big joke like mandated ethanol content. The mash goes for cheap high protein cattle feed at feed lots right next to the distillery/refinery and right out the cattle's asses as methane.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Unfortunately, the scope of oil sands expansion that has already been planned and approved can only mean that other sectors of the Canadian economy must do more than their proportional share to reduce emissions. Even if carbon capture and storage (CCS) is actually able to reduce emissions substantially in the oil sands (a claim that is still far from certain), current oil sands expansion plans would still exceed the oil sands emissions budget if the sector does its share to meet the government’s commitments.

Even the most optimistic estimates by industry experts indicate that by 2020, CCS may reduce oil sands emissions by 10–30 per cent below business as usual, and by 2050, 30–50 per cent below business as usual. As the graph below shows, this would still mean that the oil sands industry will exceed a proportional share of Canada’s carbon budget by 3.5 times in 2020, and by nearly 40 times in 2050 if expansion proceeds as planned. Oil sands production would therefore need to peak at or near current levels if the sector is to do its proportional share.

Figure 3. Oil sands ghg emissions with CCS
Source: WWF UK and the Cooperative Bank, “Carbon Capture and Storage in the Alberta Oil Sands: A Dangerous Myth” (2009).

Can't post the graph because it's in the PDF:
http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/ed-fedpolicy-report-oct2010-web-redo.pdf
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
These carbon economy junkies are working the oldest scam in the book for carbon life forms. We are made of carbon, we are carbon, they will tax us because we love carbon. Taxing the air would have raised suspicions. Direct taxation of sunlight is the way to go.



YouTube - Piers Corbyn, on climate model failings, co2 on earth, co2 on Venus
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Global Warming and Cold Winters

Posted on 15 January 2011 by D.Salmons

Guest post by D.Salmons

If you were to look out most windows as of this writing, there is a good chance that you would be presented with an image of winter. All around me, winter has sprung, dumping measurable inches of frozen precipitation and snarling the usual habits of work and school as we struggle to cope with its effects on modern life. And more than a few of you might be asking yourself, "What happened to global warming?"

Well, the effects of global warming are all around us. That harsh winter that we are experiencing, it is not proof that global warming is not happening, but rather serves as proof that it is indeed happening, and even a bit faster than we might like to think. It also shows why the phrase "Climate Change" is a better term to describe the effects of man on his environment.

Vladimir Petoukhov, a climate scientist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, has recently completed a study on the effect of climate change on winter. According to Petoukhov,
These anomalies could triple the probability of cold winter extremes in Europe and northern Asia. Recent severe winters like last year's or the one of 2005-06 do not conflict with the global warming picture, but rather supplement it.​
But how does a colder winter support the idea of a warming earth? It's really simple when you look at the evidence.

Radiative Force Creates Warming

If we look at the Nasa Map above, it shows that the Arctic has been heating up, and studies show that is happening at two to three times the global average. This rising temperature in the Arctic has served to reduce the region's floating ice layer by more than 20%. And as you would expect, when the reflective ice and snow layer is stripped away, it leaves a dark blue sea.

Now, what does the effect of the dark blue sea being exposed have on the Arctic area? Well, the ice and snow layer reflects the majority of the sun's rays harmlessly back into space. But the dark blue of the exposed sea absorbs the rays, aiding the heating process.

In short, as the ice shelf shrinks, the Arctic region becomes a better collector of the Sun's energy, speeding up the warming effect and creating an even wider solar collector from the exposed sea. It should be easy to see how the process accelerates itself.

Global Pressure creates Arctic Corridor

As the ocean gets warmer from the radiative force of the Sun's rays, it is in marked contrast with the polar air above it. The heat from the warmed ocean flows upward into the polar air, creating a high pressure system.

This high pressure forces the polar air to move, and soon we have a clockwise swirl that pushes frigid air downwards into Europe and across the globe.

This newly formed "Arctic Corridor" pushes the frigid air from Europe into Eastern China and the Americas, dropping temperatures and making winter conditions more extreme than usual.

Records Support The Model

Record keeping by NASA and other institutes support the model of the artic corridor. If we look at the NASA's temperature graph by latitude, the temperature shift becomes much more pronounced as you approach the 90-degree mark. The effect, sometimes referred to in the Arctic Dipole Anomaly, explains the shift in weather patterns from established normals.

If the recent past is any indication, we can expect to see more wildly varied weather patterns and temperature shifts. In fact, we can look at the current weather season to see this shift in place. As we huddle in our abodes to avoid the effects of winter, consider that Greenland had temperatures above zero in December. Climate Change may be a very mild description indeed of what is happening to Planet Earth.



Global Warming and Cold Winters
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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These carbon economy junkies are working the oldest scam in the book for carbon life forms. We are made of carbon, we are carbon, they will tax us because we love carbon. Taxing the air would have raised suspicions. Direct taxation of sunlight is the way to go.



YouTube - Piers Corbyn, on climate model failings, co2 on earth, co2 on Venus

:lol:

Ah yes Piers Corbyn the horoscope scientists who sells his forcasts for cash.

Just when I thought I'd seen it all....Daffy posts this loon.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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The Union of Concerned Scientist’s Aaron Huertas sent along this amusing series of tweets, between UCS staff and, well, someone using Representative Dana Rohrabacher’s tweet account. Is that you Dana?

Rep. Rohrabacher (R – The O.C.) is one of the dimmest bulbs in Washington, head plays the blowhard, Richard Alley plays himself as the brain.

YouTube - Alley and Rohrabacher: Brain vs Blowhard


In hearings before Rohrabacher’s committee in November, 2010, Dr. Alleyschooled the distinguished gentleman on, among other things, the nonsense climate canard “There’s Warming on Mars, Just like on Earth, so it must all be caused by the sun.” Apparently, the lesson didn’t take, and Rohrabacher was repeating it this month while harassing the President’s Science Advisor, John Holdren.

Intrepid UCS staffers were truth squadding the hearing, and tweeted a quick response to Rohrabacher’s disinformation. Much to their surprise, someone responded.

The twitter thread is below:

.@danarohrabacher calls #climate change “natural.” There are multiple lines of evidence human activity drives it Global Warming Human Fingerprints | Union of Concerned Scientists #hcsst12:57 PM Feb 17th via HootSuite

@UCSUSA Guess ancient climate cycles, like current one on Mars,which mirrors changes on earth, not product of sun but of human activity,12:37 AM Feb 23rd via web in reply to UCSUSA

@danarohrabacher Human warming=fact http://goo.gl/TEAhMMars warming=myth Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting Sun outputs don’t=warminghttp://goo.gl/LC0TY

@UCSUSA your answer deceptive: talks Mars warming. Issue is Earth and Mars icecaps shrinking at same time. Coincidence or Solar impact?about 14 hours ago via web in reply to UCSUSA


@danarohrabacher That’s a red herring about the Red Planethttp://goo.gl/GSq6g Burying your head in the Martian sands puts us all at riskabout 6 hours ago via HootSuite in reply to DanaRohrabacher

@UCSUSA U ignore issue: incredible coincidence or solar? Whose head in sand? Read e-mails, U trust your source. Warming has become change10:59 AM Feb 26th via web in reply to UCSUSA

@danarohrabacher You don’t want to understand. Denier talking points aren’t science. Skepticalscience.com covers all this.

@danarohrabacher CA-46 is preparing for climate change. Long Beach sees water supply impact.http://goo.gl/rQQE1 Denial doesn’t help.

YouTube - Mars Attacks!!!
 

Avro

Time Out
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Benefits and Costs of the Clean Air Act

From the EPA’s findings:
Our central benefits estimate exceeds costs by a factor of more than 30 to one, and the high benefits estimate exceeds costs by 90 times. Even the low benefits estimate exceeds costs by about three to one.

This net improvement in economic welfare is projected to occur because cleaner air leads to better health and productivity for American workers as well as savings on medical expenses for air pollution-related health problems. The beneficial economic effects of these two improvements alone are projected to more than offset the expenditures for pollution control.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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This net improvement in economic welfare is projected to occur because cleaner air leads to better health and productivity for American workers as well as savings on medical expenses for air pollution-related health problems. The beneficial economic effects of these two improvements alone are projected to more than offset the expenditures for pollution control.
Some people need to shut off the AC and rip up their wall to wall asthma carpet and get some fresh air into their homes.