Abortion

[Machjo]

Should abortion be illegal? I won't even go near that bomb right now.

Is it immoral? I believe it is, but then again, I aslo believe we need to look at the root causes of it, and deal with those b3efore we can effectively deal with abortion.

Rape.
Prostitution.
Lack of sex education, character education, and other pertinent education.
poverty.
etc. etc etc.

After all, how can we tell a mother that she sholdn't have an abortion when we're not even prepared to present other options before her?

Immagine if we should tell the starving man that stealing bread is wrong? Won't have much effect now, will it, unless of course he was tought well from childhood, and was tought so well that he'd rather starve to death than steal a loaf of bread. So just as the best way to avoid theft is to tackle it from both angles (i.e., teach him it's wrong, and at the same time, take measures to ensure he's educated enough to find a job so he won't starve in the first place) so the same applies to agbortion (yes, teach them it's wrong, but also provide quality education and social support so they won't need to turn to abortion in the first place.

 

[Machjo]

Should abortion be illegal? I won't even go near that bomb right now.

Is it immoral? I believe it is, but then again, I aslo believe we need to look at the root causes of it, and deal with those b3efore we can effectively deal with abortion.

Rape.
Prostitution.
Lack of sex education, character education, and other pertinent education.
poverty.
etc. etc etc.

After all, how can we tell a mother that she sholdn't have an abortion when we're not even prepared to present other options before her?

Immagine if we should tell the starving man that stealing bread is wrong? Won't have much effect now, will it, unless of course he was tought well from childhood, and was tought so well that he'd rather starve to death than steal a loaf of bread. So just as the best way to avoid theft is to tackle it from both angles (i.e., teach him it's wrong, and at the same time, take measures to ensure he's educated enough to find a job so he won't starve in the first place) so the same applies to agbortion (yes, teach them it's wrong, but also provide quality education and social support so they won't need to turn to abortion in the first place.

 

[NSA]

I can’t stand seeing these women on TV. saying that they regret it so much. That’s not the point. They did it.

Actually the point is that , ok, maybe the DID regret it. That's fine, they have a right to feel as they do. But lots of other women who've had abortions DON'T regret doing so. And those that regret their past action shouldn't be able to impose their experience on others who believe they did the right thing. Everyone's experience and situation is different.

You know what would make me happy? If there was never another unwanted pregnancy, and abortion became completely unneccessary except in cases where the pregnancy was dangerous to the mother. Can I have a pony with that? Back here in the real world, we have to live in the grey region where banning an "immoral" procedure is itself an immoral act.

 

[NSA]

I can’t stand seeing these women on TV. saying that they regret it so much. That’s not the point. They did it.

Actually the point is that , ok, maybe the DID regret it. That's fine, they have a right to feel as they do. But lots of other women who've had abortions DON'T regret doing so. And those that regret their past action shouldn't be able to impose their experience on others who believe they did the right thing. Everyone's experience and situation is different.

You know what would make me happy? If there was never another unwanted pregnancy, and abortion became completely unneccessary except in cases where the pregnancy was dangerous to the mother. Can I have a pony with that? Back here in the real world, we have to live in the grey region where banning an "immoral" procedure is itself an immoral act.

 

[NSA]

I can’t stand seeing these women on TV. saying that they regret it so much. That’s not the point. They did it.

Actually the point is that , ok, maybe the DID regret it. That's fine, they have a right to feel as they do. But lots of other women who've had abortions DON'T regret doing so. And those that regret their past action shouldn't be able to impose their experience on others who believe they did the right thing. Everyone's experience and situation is different.

You know what would make me happy? If there was never another unwanted pregnancy, and abortion became completely unneccessary except in cases where the pregnancy was dangerous to the mother. Can I have a pony with that? Back here in the real world, we have to live in the grey region where banning an "immoral" procedure is itself an immoral act.

 

[tibear]

By making abortion legal, we will be protecting the lives of women. Women will have abortions not matter what the law says, so as a society we should protect these people.

Using your logic we should open crack houses, give them government approved crack cocaine and let them do drugs in a safe environment so that they don't hurt themselves.

As I said originally, this really boils down to whether you see the unborn child as a child. Personally I do. I think it crazy for a country to not have a law that protects a child that is 9 1/2 months yet still in the womb of its mother. Someone could stab the mother, kill the child and only be charge with aggravated assalt on the mother. No charges relating to the child. Unbelievable.

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance. I dare you, but please cover your face because they'll scratch your eyes out.

I will say, I'm disappointed in Canadian Dragon, they start the thread and then disappear. Hello, where are you?????

 

[tibear]

By making abortion legal, we will be protecting the lives of women. Women will have abortions not matter what the law says, so as a society we should protect these people.

Using your logic we should open crack houses, give them government approved crack cocaine and let them do drugs in a safe environment so that they don't hurt themselves.

As I said originally, this really boils down to whether you see the unborn child as a child. Personally I do. I think it crazy for a country to not have a law that protects a child that is 9 1/2 months yet still in the womb of its mother. Someone could stab the mother, kill the child and only be charge with aggravated assalt on the mother. No charges relating to the child. Unbelievable.

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance. I dare you, but please cover your face because they'll scratch your eyes out.

I will say, I'm disappointed in Canadian Dragon, they start the thread and then disappear. Hello, where are you?????

 

[tibear]

By making abortion legal, we will be protecting the lives of women. Women will have abortions not matter what the law says, so as a society we should protect these people.

Using your logic we should open crack houses, give them government approved crack cocaine and let them do drugs in a safe environment so that they don't hurt themselves.

As I said originally, this really boils down to whether you see the unborn child as a child. Personally I do. I think it crazy for a country to not have a law that protects a child that is 9 1/2 months yet still in the womb of its mother. Someone could stab the mother, kill the child and only be charge with aggravated assalt on the mother. No charges relating to the child. Unbelievable.

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance. I dare you, but please cover your face because they'll scratch your eyes out.

I will say, I'm disappointed in Canadian Dragon, they start the thread and then disappear. Hello, where are you?????

 

[NSA]

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance.

Perhaps not the most unbiased source to go to on this issue?

Nobody's saying abortion is a good thing and that everyone should try it. But in a world where birth control is technologically imperfect (yes, even condoms do malfunction once in a while, even when used correctly) and sex education is still not universal and comprehensive, legal abortion is the lesser of two evils. Unless, that is, you want to live in a society where women and girls with unwanted pregnancies are put in jail to ensure that they don't try to terminate their pregnancies? I sure as hell don't.

 

[NSA]

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance.

Perhaps not the most unbiased source to go to on this issue?

Nobody's saying abortion is a good thing and that everyone should try it. But in a world where birth control is technologically imperfect (yes, even condoms do malfunction once in a while, even when used correctly) and sex education is still not universal and comprehensive, legal abortion is the lesser of two evils. Unless, that is, you want to live in a society where women and girls with unwanted pregnancies are put in jail to ensure that they don't try to terminate their pregnancies? I sure as hell don't.

 

[NSA]

Ask any mother, pro-choice included, that has an a miscarriage and ask them whether they believe they've lost their child or whether they lost a mass of cells that has no significance.

Perhaps not the most unbiased source to go to on this issue?

Nobody's saying abortion is a good thing and that everyone should try it. But in a world where birth control is technologically imperfect (yes, even condoms do malfunction once in a while, even when used correctly) and sex education is still not universal and comprehensive, legal abortion is the lesser of two evils. Unless, that is, you want to live in a society where women and girls with unwanted pregnancies are put in jail to ensure that they don't try to terminate their pregnancies? I sure as hell don't.

 

[tibear]

NSA,

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. 8O

Children in our public schools learn in grade five about birth control. They all know about birth control pills, condoms, gels, etc.

I believe that in our society this really is a personal responsibility issue. The vast majority of women who go for abortions aren't rape victims, they're woman who jumped into bed without thinking.

I view the situation the same as a drunk who gets behind the wheel and then proceeds to kill another family because of their carelessness. The drunk knows they aren't suppose to drink and drive yet they do and are held responsible.

Similarly, these woman know about birthcontrol but sometimes choose not to use them. Then when their pregnant they don't want to accept the responsibility of their actions. They say they are going to hurt themselves if we don't help them. I don't have any numbers, but all I hear is, "Do we want to go back to the coathanger days??" How many woman died as a result of illegal abortions in Canada in say 1964?? Surely there must be a number somewhere???

I hear about unwanted pregnancies and think about all of the couples who would love to have a child. No child is unwanted.

Instead of being critical of the mother we should support them and give them everything they need to have the children. If the woman don't think they can support their child after the birth, then there are many, many couples willing to accept those children into their lives.

I know my arguement sounds harsh and I'll get the "You're living in the stoneage. You want us back in the coathanger days." However, rather than attacking please give me valid arguements countering my arguements why we should provide this non-life threatening procedure to people that have, for the vast majority, chosen to put themselves in their predicament.

 

[tibear]

NSA,

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. 8O

Children in our public schools learn in grade five about birth control. They all know about birth control pills, condoms, gels, etc.

I believe that in our society this really is a personal responsibility issue. The vast majority of women who go for abortions aren't rape victims, they're woman who jumped into bed without thinking.

I view the situation the same as a drunk who gets behind the wheel and then proceeds to kill another family because of their carelessness. The drunk knows they aren't suppose to drink and drive yet they do and are held responsible.

Similarly, these woman know about birthcontrol but sometimes choose not to use them. Then when their pregnant they don't want to accept the responsibility of their actions. They say they are going to hurt themselves if we don't help them. I don't have any numbers, but all I hear is, "Do we want to go back to the coathanger days??" How many woman died as a result of illegal abortions in Canada in say 1964?? Surely there must be a number somewhere???

I hear about unwanted pregnancies and think about all of the couples who would love to have a child. No child is unwanted.

Instead of being critical of the mother we should support them and give them everything they need to have the children. If the woman don't think they can support their child after the birth, then there are many, many couples willing to accept those children into their lives.

I know my arguement sounds harsh and I'll get the "You're living in the stoneage. You want us back in the coathanger days." However, rather than attacking please give me valid arguements countering my arguements why we should provide this non-life threatening procedure to people that have, for the vast majority, chosen to put themselves in their predicament.

 

[tibear]

NSA,

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. 8O

Children in our public schools learn in grade five about birth control. They all know about birth control pills, condoms, gels, etc.

I believe that in our society this really is a personal responsibility issue. The vast majority of women who go for abortions aren't rape victims, they're woman who jumped into bed without thinking.

I view the situation the same as a drunk who gets behind the wheel and then proceeds to kill another family because of their carelessness. The drunk knows they aren't suppose to drink and drive yet they do and are held responsible.

Similarly, these woman know about birthcontrol but sometimes choose not to use them. Then when their pregnant they don't want to accept the responsibility of their actions. They say they are going to hurt themselves if we don't help them. I don't have any numbers, but all I hear is, "Do we want to go back to the coathanger days??" How many woman died as a result of illegal abortions in Canada in say 1964?? Surely there must be a number somewhere???

I hear about unwanted pregnancies and think about all of the couples who would love to have a child. No child is unwanted.

Instead of being critical of the mother we should support them and give them everything they need to have the children. If the woman don't think they can support their child after the birth, then there are many, many couples willing to accept those children into their lives.

I know my arguement sounds harsh and I'll get the "You're living in the stoneage. You want us back in the coathanger days." However, rather than attacking please give me valid arguements countering my arguements why we should provide this non-life threatening procedure to people that have, for the vast majority, chosen to put themselves in their predicament.

 

[peapod]

Interesting the topics around here lately

I happen to believe that life begins at the moment of conception so abortion was never a issue for me....I do believe that every women has the right to decide for themselves. And I do believe that if not given a choice than the coat hanger or the neighbourhood butcher would be doing the job. I am not privy to the circumstances or reasons why someone wants an abortion...but I do know that nothing is black and white, especially with humans. Its none of my business or anyone elses, why someone gets an abortion!

 

[peapod]

Interesting the topics around here lately

I happen to believe that life begins at the moment of conception so abortion was never a issue for me....I do believe that every women has the right to decide for themselves. And I do believe that if not given a choice than the coat hanger or the neighbourhood butcher would be doing the job. I am not privy to the circumstances or reasons why someone wants an abortion...but I do know that nothing is black and white, especially with humans. Its none of my business or anyone elses, why someone gets an abortion!

 

[peapod]

Interesting the topics around here lately

I happen to believe that life begins at the moment of conception so abortion was never a issue for me....I do believe that every women has the right to decide for themselves. And I do believe that if not given a choice than the coat hanger or the neighbourhood butcher would be doing the job. I am not privy to the circumstances or reasons why someone wants an abortion...but I do know that nothing is black and white, especially with humans. Its none of my business or anyone elses, why someone gets an abortion!

 

[NSA]

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. Shocked

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that even with responsible birth control usage, accidents happen. And unwanted sex happens too, though to be fair I do suspect this accounts for the minority of abortions. Banning abortion will cause more problems than it will solve, in the sense that effectively outlawing it would require severe restrictions on women's freedom. I guess my view on the subject can be summed up as:

 

[NSA]

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. Shocked

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that even with responsible birth control usage, accidents happen. And unwanted sex happens too, though to be fair I do suspect this accounts for the minority of abortions. Banning abortion will cause more problems than it will solve, in the sense that effectively outlawing it would require severe restrictions on women's freedom. I guess my view on the subject can be summed up as:

 

[NSA]

Your going to tell me that in our canadian society, if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant she doesn't know what precautions to take!! Come on. Shocked

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that even with responsible birth control usage, accidents happen. And unwanted sex happens too, though to be fair I do suspect this accounts for the minority of abortions. Banning abortion will cause more problems than it will solve, in the sense that effectively outlawing it would require severe restrictions on women's freedom. I guess my view on the subject can be summed up as: