Abortion demonstration just doesn't sound right.

[PoliticalNick]

"Pro-choice", "pro-abortion" is not about choice. It's about responsibility, or rather, the lack there of. A male and a female have a choice as to whether or not they have sex. If they choose to have sex, they are doing so knowing full well that thier "precautions" are not 100% effective. Therefore when they decide to engage in a little playtime, they are doing so with the full knowledge that it is possible that they may be starting a new life. Killing an innocent is NOT the responsible thing to do.


As an aside, it has always blown me away how a great many of those that scream about the innocent lives lost because of war have no problem with and fully support abortion. It is the same way on the right, many of those that cry out against abortion can always seem to justify "collateral damage". To me, a life is a life. One is not more precious or important than another.

Good post gerry!

What I cannot derive from it though is if you are for or against an individuals right to choose. I personally agree with your take on responsibility and would never choose an abortion unless absolutely neccessary for medical reasons (ie: my sister has a blood disorder and pregnancy could kill her long before the birth) but I am not for forcing my beliefs on others so therfore pro-choice. But I see this as I have the right to not choose abortion as much as others have the right to choose it. I detest the way it is used as birth-control but would give more support to changing laws surrounding adoption and enhanced community support for women with unwanted pregnancies than removing an individuals control over their own body.

 

[gerryh]

Good post gerry!

What I cannot derive from it though is if you are for or against an individuals right to choose. I personally agree with your take on responsibility and would never choose an abortion unless absolutely neccessary for medical reasons (ie: my sister has a blood disorder and pregnancy could kill her long before the birth) but I am not for forcing my beliefs on others so therfore pro-choice. But I see this as I have the right to not choose abortion as much as others have the right to choose it. I detest the way it is used as birth-control but would give more support to changing laws surrounding adoption and enhanced community support for women with unwanted pregnancies than removing an individuals control over their own body.

Abortion is murder. Individual rights to choose end at conception. The woman no longer is making decisions that effect ONLY her but also another living, growing human inside of her. If she didn't want that happening then she should have taken the necessary steps to 100% ensure that she did NOT become pregnant. Those were her choices.

 

[JLM]

DaSleeper, am I the only one to think that PoliticalNick and CUBert are identical twins, separated at birth, or 'they' are the same 'person'?

And, of course, let us not forget those who are candidates for the quadruplet and the quintuplet status.

Nah, I think on a good day P.N. could edge out Bert by a couple of I.Q. points. :lol:

 

[PoliticalNick]

Abortion is murder. Individual rights to choose end at conception. The woman no longer is making decisions that effect ONLY her but also another living, growing human inside of her. If she didn't want that happening then she should have taken the necessary steps to 100% ensure that she did NOT become pregnant. Those were her choices.

Thanks for the clarification of your position. Now I know where you stand.

So what about my sis? Even a tubal ligation could seriously endanger her life so what would you suggest there?

 

[JLM]

Abortion is murder. Individual rights to choose end at conception. The woman no longer is making decisions that effect ONLY her but also another living, growing human inside of her. If she didn't want that happening then she should have taken the necessary steps to 100% ensure that she did NOT become pregnant. Those were her choices.

Yep, she could use a jar of aspirins.................jumbo size. :lol:

Good post gerry!

What I cannot derive from it though is if you are for or against an individuals right to choose. I personally agree with your take on responsibility and would never choose an abortion unless absolutely neccessary for medical reasons (ie: my sister has a blood disorder and pregnancy could kill her long before the birth) but I am not for forcing my beliefs on others so therfore pro-choice. But I see this as I have the right to not choose abortion as much as others have the right to choose it. I detest the way it is used as birth-control but would give more support to changing laws surrounding adoption and enhanced community support for women with unwanted pregnancies than removing an individuals control over their own body.

The way I see it, Nick, the SUBJECT is precluded from the "right to choose".

 

[PoliticalNick]

Nah, I think on a good day P.N. could edge out Bert by a couple of I.Q. points. :lol:

Why is it that when someone from the left disagrees with the right wing view they automatically have a low IQ? I don't seem to see this same kind of bashing the intellect of the right from those on the left.

 

[gerryh]

Thanks for the clarification of your position. Now I know where you stand.

I am pro-life.

So what about my sis? Even a tubal ligation could seriously endanger her life so what would you suggest there?

If a tubal could endanger her life, then so could an abortion.

I don't seem to see this same kind of bashing the intellect of the right from those on the left.

Then you're not looking very hard, or are wearing blinders.

 

[YukonJack]

Thanks for the clarification of your position. Now I know where you stand.

So what about my sis? Even a tubal ligation could seriously endanger her life so what would you suggest there?

Ever heard of "ABSTENTION"? If a lethal and deadly poison tasted like heavenly nectar, would you drink it?

 

[PoliticalNick]

The way I see it, Nick, the SUBJECT is precluded from the "right to choose".

If by subject you mean the fetus whether is is still a zygote, blastocyst, embryo or fetus the law has determined that it is not a human being until birth, although I would personally call it human around the mid-second trimester when the brain and organs have developed, and therefore is not entitled to the right to choose. Whether anyone agrees or not with this is of no matter because the supreme court has made the determination and we have to live with it. I highly doubt this will be revisited in the SCC unless there is a change to the legislation and would think they would simply refer back to the prior decision anyway

If a tubal could endanger her life, then so could an abortion.

Definitely. So what do you suggest she do for birth control other than abstinence since most methods are not 100%.

Also, while tubal and abortion are risky for her pregnancy is almost assuredly fatal. Fortunately she is a smart girl and not promiscuous and understands her situation far better than I do and is very careful.

Then you're not looking very hard, or are wearing blinders.

That is a good possibility. ;-)

Ever heard of "ABSTENTION"? If a lethal and deadly poison tasted like heavenly nectar, would you drink it?

Oh please go crawl back in your cave. Your mother should have abstained.

 

[CDNBear]

As an aside, it has always blown me away how a great many of those that scream about the innocent lives lost because of war have no problem with and fully support abortion. It is the same way on the right, many of those that cry out against abortion can always seem to justify "collateral damage". To me, a life is a life. One is not more precious or important than another.

I can justify it by compartmentalizing my emotions, opinions and actions.

I believe that some lives are more important then others and I have no problem with taking the life of someone that would take mine, or yours.

I fully grasp the ugliness of my ability. But that ugliness, is an ugly necessity in an ugly world.

 

[CUBert]

Similar to his argument for abortion, Singer argues that newborns lack the essential characteristics of personhood—"rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness"[17]—and therefore "killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living."[18]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#Abortion.2C_euthanasia_and_infanticide

I agree with this completely, and as well as I implied before, forcing unwanted babies into society is detrimental to it.

 

[YukonJack]

Oh please go crawl back in your cave. Your mother should have abstained.

Whatever you did to/with your sister is your business.

My mother knew when to abstain, yours did not.

 

[CDNBear]

I agree with this completely, and as well as I implied before, forcing unwanted babies into society is detrimental to it.

Do you have some facts to back this up? There is a deficit of babies for the people willing to adopt.

 

[petros]

This is how you're going to justify forcing women to have a child (even in the case of rape) ?

I wonder what the statistics are as far as unwanted children getting into crime and having a poor quality of life...

What percentage of abortions are rape or incest related?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Do you have some facts to back this up? There is a deficit of babies for the people willing to adopt.

A deficit of newborns yes, but a large amount of children over 2-3 years old and an even larger amount of children over 6. Maybe those wanting to adopt should be more willing to take on a child other than a baby.

 

[CUBert]

Do you have some facts to back this up? There is a deficit of babies for the people willing to adopt.

It's logical to assume unwanted babies aren't going to have quite the quality of life as babies who are... you would agree?

 

[petros]

My daughter is 19 today.


19 years of extreme happiness being a dad for me.

It's logical to assume unwanted babies aren't going to have quite the quality of life as babies who are... you would agree?

It's also logical that there are a lot of people without the balls to be parents and change their lives for the benefit of the child and themselves.

Do you have the balls to be a dad?

 

[CDNBear]

Maybe those wanting to adopt should be more willing to take on a child other than a baby.

Who wants a used model, that you have no idea how hard the original owners were, on it?

It's logical to assume unwanted babies aren't going to have quite the quality of life as babies who are...

Only if you ignore the fact that people will jump through hoops to adopt a new born baby.

you would agree?

No, since there was no logic in your post.

 

[CUBert]

Only if you ignore the fact that people will jump through hoops to adopt a new born baby.

You have much more faith in humanity than me...

No, since there was no logic in your post.

Yes it's logical... Not true that 100% of unwanted babies won't find loving parents, but I think the chances are lower for an unwanted baby vs a wanted one.

How many criminals, rapists, gangbangers , etc etc do you think had a great quality of life growing up as wanted children?? MY guess is not that many.

 

[PoliticalNick]

It's logical to assume unwanted babies aren't going to have quite the quality of life as babies who are... you would agree?

Not a logical assumption at all, some people grow into being good parents even after having an unwanted pregnancy, I know a few.

My daughter is 19 today.

Happy birthday to her!!

It's also logical that there are a lot of people without the balls to be parents and change their lives for the benefit of the child and themselves.

Far more logical assumption than Bert's. I made major changes in my life to accomodate having kids, some I know still haven't changed and it shows in their children.

Who wants a used model, that you have no idea how hard the original owners were, on it?

There is the biggest problem with adoption in our society. Too many people who claim to want a child to care for but only if it is a newborn. If you really cared you would take what was there. Most people who want to adopt are doing it for selfish reasons.