A Metaphorical God

Nick Danger

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Jul 21, 2013
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What if the Bible was never meant to be taken as an accurate historical account ?

I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist with what is accepted as current scientific fact, the creation vs. evolution debate. Would not taking a metaphorical approach to Biblical verse allows for "peaceful coexistence" if you will, keeping the moral teachings intact without stretching one's personal believability beyond acceptable limits?
 

Cliffy

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What are you, some kinda Kenyan Muslim Socialist who wants to destroy America (and maybe Canada too)?
Now bones, be nice to the new guy. It is a reasonable question. If he turns out to be another nut case, then slag him. Bible as metaphor is something that I and many others have been advocating for decades.
 

Nick Danger

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Actually, I'm an alcoholic. I entered a 12-step recovery program rooted pretty deeply in spiritual awareness and growth and really needed a concept of God that I was comfortable with in order to relate to much of the literature. The idea of some sort of cosmic super-being never really sat right with me, so the metaphorical work-around started as a tactic to keep me from getting sidetracked every time the "G" word was mentioned. Still, after a few years of thinking it over, it makes some sense to me that the "God is within" approach saves me the headache of trying to reconcile a biblical literalist view with widely proven scientific knowledge. It comes down to just what sort of face I chose to put on the God of my belief.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Welcome, Nick. My post above was just sarcasm. Not much of a believer myself.

I'd say if the bible isn't complete hooey, it may be metaphorical. Or it may just reflect the understanding of the world of a tribe of primitives.
 

Cliffy

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Actually, I'm an alcoholic. I entered a 12-step recovery program rooted pretty deeply in spiritual awareness and growth and really needed a concept of God that I was comfortable with in order to relate to much of the literature. The idea of some sort of cosmic super-being never really sat right with me, so the metaphorical work-around started as a tactic to keep me from getting sidetracked every time the "G" word was mentioned. Still, after a few years of thinking it over, it makes some sense to me that the "God is within" approach saves me the headache of trying to reconcile a biblical literalist view with widely proven scientific knowledge. It comes down to just what sort of face I chose to put on the God of my belief.
Makes perfect sense to me. BTW, welcome to the asylum Nick. I have a feeling that I am familiar with your story.
 

55Mercury

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May 31, 2007
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your face... and realize that evolution is part and parcel with God's Plan.
 

karrie

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I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist...

That's not all Christian faiths, and not all Christians. Catholicism for example does not argue the science of the origins of man.

Ultimately, faith is personal. There are plenty of people who are willing to look to science to try to find what god means to them.
 

Machjo

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What if the Bible was never meant to be taken as an accurate historical account ?

I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist with what is accepted as current scientific fact, the creation vs. evolution debate. Would not taking a metaphorical approach to Biblical verse allows for "peaceful coexistence" if you will, keeping the moral teachings intact without stretching one's personal believability beyond acceptable limits?

Think of it this way:

Immagine a father trying to explain quantum physics to a 5 year old. You can bet he'll be using lots of metaphores, maybe talking about marbles going around golf balls on a string to describe atoms, etc. Now immagine the child taking that literally when he grows up.

I see any sacred text in the same light. If it is the word of God, then it must be so beyond us that most certainly he must have dumbed lots of stuff down to help the people of the time understand. Also, I doubt it was meant as a history text in the first place seeing that his concern is to teach spiritual truths, far more important, leaving science to the scientist.

And Nick Danger. I wish you the best with your struggles.
 

Nick Danger

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Also, I doubt it was meant as a history text in the first place seeing that his concern is to teach spiritual truths, far more important, leaving science to the scientist.

Agreed. I think my original post tried more to address that a literal translation is adversely affecting the growth of Christian faiths. Moving away from that literalist approach and giving individuals the freedom to come to know a God of their own understanding doesn't affect the quality of the moral lessons does it ? After all, if the true nature of God is so far beyond our understanding then there really can be no wrong answers can there ?
 

#juan

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That's not all Christian faiths, and not all Christians. Catholicism for example does not argue the science of the origins of man.

Ultimately, faith is personal. There are plenty of people who are willing to look to science to try to find what god means to them.

Good post. Even Carl Sagan didn't rule out the existance of a supreme being of some kind. Is our evolution the result of a lot of right or wrong random choices.
 

Motar

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What if the Bible was never meant to be taken as an accurate historical account ?

I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist with what is accepted as current scientific fact, the creation vs. evolution debate. Would not taking a metaphorical approach to Biblical verse allows for "peaceful coexistence" if you will, keeping the moral teachings intact without stretching one's personal believability beyond acceptable limits?
What if there is more to the Bible than metaphor?

What if the Bible is a literary collection of narrative history, genealogies, chronicles, laws, poetry, proverbs, prophetic oracles, riddles, drama, biographical sketches, parables, letters, sermons, and apocalypses designed to communicate to all human conditions?

What if a superficial glance at biblical content without regard for form or context leaves a reader with the uninformed and uninspired impression that the Bible is one-dimensional and approximate in its presentation.

What if the Bible was never meant to be taken as an accurate historical account ?

I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist with what is accepted as current scientific fact, the creation vs. evolution debate. Would not taking a metaphorical approach to Biblical verse allows for "peaceful coexistence" if you will, keeping the moral teachings intact without stretching one's personal believability beyond acceptable limits?
What if there is more to the Bible than metaphor?

What if the Bible is a literary collection of narrative history, genealogies, chronicles, laws, poetry, proverbs, prophetic oracles, riddles, drama, biographical sketches, parables, letters, sermons, and apocalypses designed to communicate to all human conditions?

What if a superficial glance at biblical content without regard for form or context leaves a reader with the uninformed and uninspired impression that the Bible is one-dimensional and approximate in its presentation.
 

Nick Danger

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Jul 21, 2013
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Yes, it is the existence of so many "what ifs" that has led me to my current concept of God. If we can't know for sure one way or the other then what does it say about staying true to oneself to buy into somebody else's idea of what is and what isn't ? Granted lots of people can live with that choice but I don't count myself among them. I can accept the possibility that there might somewhere be a wizened old gent with a big "G" on his sweatshirt with his hand on humanity's rudder, it will have to remain just a possibility until some substantial proof comes along. In the meantime, it hardly seems fair to simply wash away all the good that the Bible has to offer in terms of moral direction just because its authorship is in dispute.
 

L Gilbert

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What if the Bible was never meant to be taken as an accurate historical account ?

I see a major complaint against the Christian faiths is their inability/unwillingness to coexist with what is accepted as current scientific fact, the creation vs. evolution debate. Would not taking a metaphorical approach to Biblical verse allows for "peaceful coexistence" if you will, keeping the moral teachings intact without stretching one's personal believability beyond acceptable limits?
There's a few researchers (I can't remember their names, though, dammit) probing the idea that religions were meant to be sociological tools developed to guide people in social relationships rather than be foundations of science, history, and the like. I really think that was the purpose of religion to begin with. Unfortunately, through the usual human traits of greed for power, tendencies of some people to want control over others, and the like, religions have become quite distanced from that original context.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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There's a few researchers (I can't remember their names, though, dammit) probing the idea that religions were meant to be sociological tools developed to guide people in social relationships rather than be foundations of science, history, and the like. I really think that was the purpose of religion to begin with. Unfortunately, through the usual human traits of greed for power, tendencies of some people to want control over others, and the like, religions have become quite distanced from that original context.
And a few others who figure waaaaaaay back when, a few fellas that were to clumsy to hunt and too lazy to gather figured out a way to get all the best stuff, and status in the tribe, and power even over the chief, just by selling the greatest shaggy-dog story ever told.
 

L Gilbert

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Actually, I'm an alcoholic. I entered a 12-step recovery program rooted pretty deeply in spiritual awareness and growth and really needed a concept of God that I was comfortable with in order to relate to much of the literature. The idea of some sort of cosmic super-being never really sat right with me, so the metaphorical work-around started as a tactic to keep me from getting sidetracked every time the "G" word was mentioned. Still, after a few years of thinking it over, it makes some sense to me that the "God is within" approach saves me the headache of trying to reconcile a biblical literalist view with widely proven scientific knowledge. It comes down to just what sort of face I chose to put on the God of my belief.
That's cool. As an atheist, I have seen no evidence that there are gods, goblins, and faeries, so what remains is that everyone is born with the potential to have both good and bad in them. IOW, our gods n goblins are ourselves and we sponge up the events in our lives as we grow and process (mostly subconsciously) the information to develop our lives.

Some religions would have it that we are born bad (or born sinners, as it were) and have to fight it all our lives. Personally, I think that's a load of nonsense. Therefore, to me, the whole issue behind Adam and Eve and the apple has no factual basis, and is just an allegory indicating that we can sort of choose whether to be good, partially good, bad, or partially bad. But a lot of these religions tell us what is bad or good, rather than we ourselves figuring out for ourselves what is good or bad.

We are products of our environments, from parents teaching us that hitting another person is bad to the countless bits of information per second that our brains process (most of which is done without our even noticing) and if you've ever studied genetics, psychology, anthropology, etc. you may get the idea that exactly everything we are is dictated by our DNA and everything we do and feel is dictated by our brains; so we really have no such thing as free will, we just have cognizance. And we may think we can change willfully if we want to (upon recognizing we have something in us that needs to change), but it's just our brains directing us that we need to change as well as our brains telling us we have the will to change. So, IMO, we are simply what we are and there's absolutely nothing mystical and supernatural about us,, just a lot of stuff we do not know about yet.

What if there is more to the Bible than metaphor?

What if the Bible is a literary collection of narrative history, genealogies, chronicles, laws, poetry, proverbs, prophetic oracles, riddles, drama, biographical sketches, parables, letters, sermons, and apocalypses designed to communicate to all human conditions?

What if a superficial glance at biblical content without regard for form or context leaves a reader with the uninformed and uninspired impression that the Bible is one-dimensional and approximate in its presentation.
How can we know the contexts of a book of books written over a fairly long period of time by many individuals in a few different languages that have since authorship, evolved without knowing things like the environments, thoughts, ways of thinking, and a myriad of other factors affecting those ancient authors? We can't. We can guess, research, and guess some more, but we will likely never know. So we are left with the just as large of a myriad of interpretations.
 

Cliffy

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My mind has no problem combining science and spirituality to understand the human condition. I can see the value of the metaphorical bible, but taking it literally makes no sense to me. I don't hold the bible as worthy of my contemplation any more. A wise man once told me that the bible is a gold mine, but first you have to get rid of the overburden to get to the gems. I saw the merit of that view but found it too tedious to go mining. I have found that my own life experiences have provided me with more than adequate lessons in my life than to spend too much time wading through other people's opinions on the subject.
 

darkbeaver

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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
This effort, in fact, is the gist of the highest endeavor of man’s mental faculty. The bent, the drive, the inappeasable hunger of his mind for consummative intelligence must be recognized as the supreme and incontrovertible evidence that the indefeasible fire of a divine nature glows within the depths of his organic being. It is the certification of his membership in an order of being transcending the level of existence to which he is attached by means of his animal body. This was categorically stated by Plato, who declared that "through body man is an animal; through intellect, he is a god." Plato’s predecessor in philosophical excogitation, Heraclitus, had put it in terms conveying the same affirmation: "Man is a portion of cosmic fire imprisoned in a body of earth and water."
A B Khun