A call to Dexter and all the other ... [members, guests, and every reader]

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,570
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Toronto, ON
And what's the deal with eternity anyhow? Eternity's a long damn time. Isn't judging a body by eighty-some year or so on earth kinda like deciding you're a good or a bad person based on what you were doing between 2:47:05 and 2:47:08 pm on November 6, 1983?
Can we choose a different 3 second span? I think I was pretty bad in that one.
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
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How people will believe the Mahdi:
Of all the Children of Israel or the Israelites in the time of Jesus Christ... out of all them, only 12 men believed: one of them betrayed him. And these 12 doubted Jesus Christ in spite of all the miracles he did.

So of all people in the entire world, only a few will believe the Mahdi when he comes.
Therefore, it is not strange or weird that you do not believe, but mock and ridicule like the past nations who mocked their messengers.
In spite of that Muslims have the Quran, they do not believe his interpretation of the Quran and his call to the devotion to God alone; because they follow their fathers and their sects like you yourselves.

Because it is narrated that "Prophet Mohammed was denied about the Quran revelation, while the Mahdi will be denied about the interpretation."
It means: People say to Prophet Mohammed: this Quran is not from God, and in the same way people will say to the Mhadi this is not the correct interpretation, which is not from God.

Moreover, in spite of that many people respected his interpretation, but very few followed him.
So he was denied, as had God's messengers and prophets denied before, like Moses had been denied, and like Noah, Abraham, Lot, the tribes of Aad, and Thamood, and in fact, all the past nations denied their prophets at the start, with the exception of Jonah's people of Nineveh who believed and were spared the punishment.

The Mahdi will come when disbelief and idolatry prevail, and Muslims will be overcome everywhere which has been fulfilled: and Muslims are overcome everywhere, and all sects and states have been set on them: Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and Communists, and Muslims have been victims everywhere in the world.

Then how could you believe, while you are not Muslims, and you follow your culture and follow your people's traditions unless God wills to guide whomever He pleases? While Muslims themselves deny the Mahdi.

So it is only if God Himself obliges the world to submit!!! or to believe??

What I understood of the Mahdi ruling is what Abu Abd-Allah saw in his dream;
He asked God: How can I rule when Muslims do not follow me, and when the power is by the hand of unbelievers?
He saw a rascal on a bridge and he transgresses on people right and left and people go away from him and cannot do anything to him.
He said: I came direct to that man and merely once I touched him, he fell in the water and statred jerking and at last was drowned.
The people there came and said to me: God bless you! You have ridden us from this rascal, and they gathered together counseling each other (they wore different dress styles of the Arabs) then they came to me and said: You rid us from this rascal and we will make you our king.

The angel came and interpreted the dream to me: "The rascal is the Zionist Jews and God will give you victory over them, and the Arab will make you their king. So in this way, you will rule."
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
All your atheism and disbelief is wrong.
Maybe so, but that's really all you've got, and all you've ever had, your continued insistence that I'm wrong and you're right. You've given me no reason to change my mind, and until you can do that, I'll take my chances with my disbelief. I have serious issues with a deity who'd insist we believe in him on such bad evidence and condemn us for failing to do so.
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
Can we choose a different 3 second span? I think I was pretty bad in that one.
not sure if God judges us on flatulence. would it be on the boquet or the audible? Lord, decisions decisions!!

I know! let's ask Torchy!

hey Torchy, does your shit stink today?
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,501
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Two events are strongly narrated about the Mahdi:
1- His companions will gather to him from all countries, to be 313 men who will give allegiance to him in Mecca. (these collect to him like the collection of the pieces of cloud.)
2- An army will be sent against him, and a catastrophe from God will terminate this army in the desert or the wilderness so that none or only one man remains to tell the Zionist about him: so when this event (which is like the termination of Pharaoh and his host) occurs, the Muslims (and others maybe) will believe at that time and will come to help him. In other words: only then they will be certain that he is the Mahdi.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,903
2,036
113
New Brunswick
Bunch of atheists and blasphemers and idolaters, your disbelief will lead to your complete loss in the Hereafter, and you are not far from God's dealing in this life of the World also.

And what, really, business it is of yours? What does it matter TO YOU?

It doesn't affect YOUR place in the "hereafter" at all, so why be pissed off about what others choose?

Can you at least answer that?
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,501
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Maybe so, but that's really all you've got, and all you've ever had, your continued insistence that I'm wrong and you're right. You've given me no reason to change my mind, and until you can do that, I'll take my chances with my disbelief. I have serious issues with a deity who'd insist we believe in him on such bad evidence and condemn us for failing to do so.
This is your misfortune, atheist.. that you take a way against God and His Quran.
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
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One of the things that let me follow the Quran interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly is that very few followed him: I said this confirms he is truthful.
Quran 6: 116, which means:
(If you obey most of those [people] on earth [in their opinions], they will misguide [and divert] you from God's way [because they are associaters and idolaters.] d)
...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

d And each sect have their own doctrine of falsehood different from the other sect, and each one of them invites you to his own religion and creed.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/6.htm#a6_116
 
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Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
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63
And what, really, business it is of yours? What does it matter TO YOU?

It doesn't affect YOUR place in the "hereafter" at all, so why be pissed off about what others choose?

Can you at least answer that?
You, God's enemies, misguide others and bar people with your words of blasphemy and disbelief from the standard way of monotheism and devotion to God alone.
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,501
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So you're admitting that the Quran you follow, the only one that matters, is one that is determined by INTERPRETATION of someone who is NOT Mohammed? Who is a Twelver Imam?
The twelfth imam is only an enthusiasm and exaggeration of things; no such imams; only some righteous men maybe some are pious and scholars not more than this.
The Quran is God's word, and it includes a large number of ayat that will be interpreted by the Mahdi.
Such interpretation of the Quran specially of the ambiguous ayat is the miracle of the Mahdi.
http://quran-ayat.com/
 

Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
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Does a person have to be religious to be a good person?
Yes, and he should follow God's religion if he is a good person.
In other words: if he is a good person, why doesn't he believe in God and His religion?
Does a person have to be religious to respect their family and friends and elders?
The respect of family and friends: this is elastic term: the family of the disbeliever usually are like him, and it is not every religion: the idolatry and atheism are against God's religion.
So the disbeliever claims himself good, while the true believer condemns himself and asks God's forgiveness,.
Does a person have to be religious to not do evil upon others?
Here is your lie to which you insist: God in fact tells people to be good to others, like this aya in the Quran 22: 77, which means:
(O you who have believed! Bow down and prostrate yourselves [in your prayers], and worship your Lord, and do [everything] good [to people but never wrong anyone] so that you may be successful [in the Hereafter.])
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/22.htm#a22_77
Are those above qualities irrelevant to your God? He or She or They or Them is only concerned with being worshipped, and not about who the person is that’s worshipping them? Is that what you’re trying to say above in your warm & caring way?

If so, I’m going to have to content myself with being a good person now, and let the chips fall where they may be based on my own actions and deeds and thoughts at a later date, if there is a hereafter.
So this is your cheating yourself and others.
God is One, and you speak about Him in this way, and you praise yourself by saying that you are a good person, and you disbelieve about the Hereafter, which non disbelieves about it unless he is a wrongdoer and sinner.
So by saying you are a good person: this is something that only you and God know; God Who knows everything, and you forget about what you have done in your lifetime of sins and transgressions on others: of which I know only your transgression on God Himself and on His messenger.
 
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Torch light

House Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,501
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63
And what's the deal with eternity anyhow? Eternity's a long damn time. Isn't judging a body by eighty-some year or so on earth kinda like deciding you're a good or a bad person based on what you were doing between 2:47:05 and 2:47:08 pm on November 6, 1983?
God said in the Quran (and in the Torah and the Gospel) that life in the World is a temporary one and during it, man is tested and it is explained to him the correct way and the wrong way and he has to choose his way:
either to be with God alone without associate or son or totem and to do charity, or else he may choose the wrong way of idolatry: the associating others with God and the bad conduct; for each of these two ways he will be rewarded accordingly.

Quran 76, 3-5, which mean:
(3. We have shown to him the [correct] way ; [and have given to him the free choice] whether to be grateful or ungrateful.
4. Surely, We have prepared, for disbelievers, chains and yokes [binding hands to necks] and a blazing fire.
5. The charitable [in the life of the World] shall drink [in Paradise] a cup of wine mixed with the Kafoor [flavor.])

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/76.htm#a76_3
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,903
2,036
113
New Brunswick
You, God's enemies, misguide others and bar people with your words of blasphemy and disbelief from the standard way of monotheism and devotion to God alone.

I'm not an enemy of God, nor do I misguide others. In fact, I don't talk about religion with ANYONE in any specifics unless it's something like this, a discussion focused forum where it's already happening.

Nor do I tell others NOT to worship God as they wish or want to. I honestly don't care how or who you worship, just don't try to push/force that onto ME and others.

So yet another lie of yours.

The problem is, again, that YOU are all these things, and project that onto others, because you believe only YOUR faith - that of you and Al-Hilly - is the only faith that should be followed.

And you still didn't answer the question - WHY do you care? In this place, this form, why does it matter so much to YOU, when all here are against your following? Your belief? Your version of God?

Or are you a sadist as well as a liar?
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
It was a mistake to allow islam to immigrate in mass numbers. They want to eradicate infidels, keep women and children as chattels and expunge homosexuality from the face of the planet, in spite of their fondness for little boys' butts.

But their intentions were never a secret. Where was the feminist outcry while their governments were letting it happen? Where were the alpha-bettys when their nemesis was gaining foothold in their free countries?

In a society that welcomes all cultures and religions it's insane to allow the one in whose mantra is "there can be only one".

Only death can come of it.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
It was a mistake to allow islam to immigrate in mass numbers. They want to eradicate infidels, keep women and children as chattels and expunge homosexuality from the face of the planet, in spite of their fondness for little boys' butts.

But their intentions were never a secret. Where was the feminist outcry while their governments were letting it happen? Where were the alpha-bettys when their nemesis was gaining foothold in their free countries?

In a society that welcomes all cultures and religions it's insane to allow the one in whose mantra is "there can be only one".

Only death can come of it.
Yes I’ve often pondered that. Some versions of Islam, like Torch light’s, are clearly incompatible with the values of what we usually call Western Civilization, there’s no room in it for the pluralism and tolerance and dissent we value. There are more moderate versions that seem acceptable, though we don’t much see them condemning the extremism of some of their fellow travellers as they should, and I’ve wondered about the extent to which ecumenicalism actually enables the extremists. If we’re going to preach tolerance of religious differences, where do we draw the line between what we can and can’t tolerate, or can we draw it at all? I dunno; this seems a really hard problem to me.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,903
2,036
113
New Brunswick
Yes I’ve often pondered that. Some versions of Islam, like Torch light’s, are clearly incompatible with the values of what we usually call Western Civilization, there’s no room in it for the pluralism and tolerance and dissent we value. There are more moderate versions that seem acceptable, though we don’t much see them condemning the extremism of some of their fellow travellers as they should, and I’ve wondered about the extent to which ecumenicalism actually enables the extremists. If we’re going to preach tolerance of religious differences, where do we draw the line between what we can and can’t tolerate, or can we draw it at all? I dunno; this seems a really hard problem to me.

It's always made me just shake my head at how once Islam was fairly tolerant of other people and religions. But now you've got the extremism that has taken over and it's become "all" of Islam somehow.

The only reason I can think of that other versions of Islam don't stand up/out against the hardliner types is fear. Fear of retaliation. Considering how well the extreme versions love to eradicate all others, honestly I don't blame other sects to be afraid/wary. Some still speak out, but they're not loud enough or have the numbers.

On the flip side, it doesn't help that even for them, the reactions to Mohammed by those in the West don't exactly promote willingness to side with them. Or just racism in general. Let's be real, the ONLY reason people in the west would promote any image of Mohammed is to piss off Muslims. It's not like it's not known how they react to such dishonors to their Prophet. It's one of those freedom of speech things that toes that same line of freedom of religion and the tolerance of said religion.

For me, the line is "respect", but then how can you respect a religion that has extremists in it that will kill you for no real reason (I don't consider women's freedom, being GLBTQIA or being non-Muslim a reason)