9 year old suspended for bringing tools to school

[karrie]

This is the second such case I read recently (one was a boy suspended for smelling his sharpie marker), where it smacked of administrators not willing to do their job of guiding kids in their struggle to learn social rules/guidelines and personal control and judgement. yes, parents are the main teachers in this area, but, administrators and class room teachers used to be a very important part of it. I'm lucky... my kids have that at their school. My son has been in two fights since starting there. During one fight, he resorted to biting the kid who wouldn't let him go. Was he suspended? No. He spent half a day in talking to the principal, writing a letter to the other kid to apologize, and then for the following week his teacher talked to him whenever she got the chance about anger control, and appropriate reactions if someone is bullying or holding you.

The latest incident he punched a girl in his class in the mouth after she kicked him. Was he suspended? No. They were, once again, sent to the principal, lectured, given assignments to write out to one another. The class was given anger management exercises, and proper playground etiquette was discussed.

These are the sorts of things I see kids getting suspended for at other schools in the same age range. And I really don't think they learn nearly as much from a suspension as my son has learned from his two incidents, other than the fact that they're considered 'bad kids' and aren't allowed to be with the other kids as punishment.

 

[Sal]

This is the second such case I read recently (one was a boy suspended for smelling his sharpie marker), where it smacked of administrators not willing to do their job of guiding kids in their struggle to learn social rules/guidelines and personal control and judgement. yes, parents are the main teachers in this area, but, administrators and class room teachers used to be a very important part of it. I'm lucky... my kids have that at their school. My son has been in two fights since starting there. During one fight, he resorted to biting the kid who wouldn't let him go. Was he suspended? No. He spent half a day in talking to the principal, writing a letter to the other kid to apologize, and then for the following week his teacher talked to him whenever she got the chance about anger control, and appropriate reactions if someone is bullying or holding you.

The latest incident he punched a girl in his class in the mouth after she kicked him. Was he suspended? No. They were, once again, sent to the principal, lectured, given assignments to write out to one another. The class was given anger management exercises, and proper playground etiquette was discussed.

These are the sorts of things I see kids getting suspended for at other schools in the same age range. And I really don't think they learn nearly as much from a suspension as my son has learned from his two incidents, other than the fact that they're considered 'bad kids' and aren't allowed to be with the other kids as punishment.

LOL....yeah I hear you. A girlfriend of mine was pissed white because her son got suspended. She argued with the school pointing out to them that a suspension was equal to a reward. Sleep in, watch movies and play video games for days while occasionally moving his ass to get a snack from the fridge. The principal said he knew that and agreed but that his hands were tied as there was protocol to follow.

It is not discretionary. It's the world we're in.

And no one jump in here to say it's her job to ensure he doesn't do that. She is a single mum who works to keep their home functioning. Staying home to babysit a 16 year old is not even a blip on the radar.

 

[Praxius]

You'd put up with your kid being suspended (there are other ways to reprimand and get a point across you know... detention for example), over some theoretical action of some other kid? I highly doubt it. I know I sure as hell wouldn't.

Then do something about it if you think they went over the line.... take your kid out of the school and put them somewhere else, either that or take the rules they give.

Suspension isn't that big of a deal, it's not like she was expelled. I got a suspension for saying "Get your arse out of my seat" one time. The other teachers laughed their asses off that she suspended me for saying arse, but there you have it.

What are you going to fight? That the daughter did something stupid, the parent was too stupid to tell her child not to do that in the first place and they didn't even ask the school if it'd be fine.

Chances are the reason why she got the suspension was because of her parents trying to trvialize the whole thing. Like I said, I don't think she planned on harming anyone intentionally, but I have no sympathy for anybody in this case.

My kids sneak stuff off to school in their backpacks regularly enough that we've needed to start checking their bags (6 and 8 yrs old), to make sure no pricey toys are taking off to school.

Yeah, I had a few stolen here and there......

Parents don't always know what their kids are taking, and no, it's not logical to expect a parent to catch every last whoops, or to think ahead and explain to a 9 year old EVERY last eventuality for every item they might think of packing to school.

Nobody said you should have to check their packs everytime all the time, 24/7 and make sure they're doing everything you would expect them to do. They need to be fully aware that they shouldn't be taking things to school that can hurt someone else either intentional or not.... and if they do take something to school, then they accept the consequences of their actions.... I sure as hell won't bail my children out for something that was clearly explained to them before.

I'm pretty sure my brother even had a night in jail for a few hours for something he did around that age.

That's the way she goes. You do something stupid, no matter how innocent you may thought it was, you accept the responsibility of those actions, no matter how old you are. Age was never an excuse when I was growing up and it sure won't be an excuse when I have children.

 

[Praxius]

Oh and not to mention, The teachers and principals have the say in what occurs in the schools, not the parents. If they want to dictate what the rules and proceedures should be, then by all means, they can do their jobs for them. That's the responsibility we pass onto them when we give them our children for most of the day for most of the week. I'd rather my children be in a school that is that protective of the overall well being of the students then have my children in a school that is slack and doesn't pay attention..... even if my own children may be in the crosshairs of disipline.

 

[gerryh]

Oh and not to mention, The teachers and principals have the say in what occurs in the schools, not the parents. If they want to dictate what the rules and proceedures should be, then by all means, they can do their jobs for them. That's the responsibility we pass onto them when we give them our children for most of the day for most of the week. I'd rather my children be in a school that is that protective of the overall well being of the students then have my children in a school that is slack and doesn't pay attention..... even if my own children may be in the crosshairs of disipline.

You have kids?

 

[karrie]

Oh and not to mention, The teachers and principals have the say in what occurs in the schools, not the parents..

wrong. Parents get a say, parents have influence and sway. Not each individual parent, but, as a whole, they carry stroke. And the instant that parents start standing up and demanding that schools use discretion rather than blanket policies which try to take these situations strictly on a black and white basis, you'll start seeing them actually exercise a bit of discretion instead of using fallbacks and catch phrases to excuse themselves from the job of teaching.

 

[Praxius]

You have kids?

No I don't, I'm a son of a teacher in the system and used to be an educator as well for a few years. If and when I have children and if and when I send them to public schooling, they will follow the same proceedures and rules as I had to, just as everybody else has to. I was given no special treatment, and thus, no other child should be given special treatments.... this is not out of some personal vendetta to make sure other people go through what I did, but because it is a valued lesson to be learned at a young age as well as parents should learn quickly about this as well.

Nobody wants to take the blame, everybody wants to make themselves out to look like they always had best interests at mind or what actions were done were from innocence or ignorance and they shouldn't be held responsible..... and then eventually something does happen and then it's "Who's fault" fighting and blame shifting..... someone complaining someone was punished too harshly, or that someone didn't do enough to protect their child from another, etc etc..... Rules are in place for a reason and they are enforced as such, if you don't like them, take your complaints to the School Board and get your answers from them.

I think people are getting too touchy over this subject because a child was given a suspension and written up on their perm record over something that most would see as trivial. No parent and no child can make perfect decisions all the time and eventually someone's going to screw up.... even teachers will.... we're all human. But we all also have to suck it up and accept we'll screw up and that there are consequences for our actions.

She should be so lucky that that's all she got and nothing did happen. Learn from your mistakes and move on. She's not going to be rejected from Yale just because she's been written up as a young child for bringing a hammer to school..... she might if she hit someone with it, or someone grabbed it from her and did the same.

 

[gerryh]

didn't think so

 

[Praxius]

wrong. Parents get a say, parents have influence and sway.

Perhaps, and as I said earlier, chances are the parent in this case probably tried to use her brilliant reasoning against the school and is probably why her daughter was suspended.... her mom didn't see the big deal, so the school had to show the child that it was via a suspension, and at the same time express to the parent it was a serious matter.... which it is.

The school said they did take this as a case by case situation, they did listen to the reasons for what occured and why she brought the hammer to school.... they talked plenty with the parent it would seem by the report.... this is the final conclusion of that talk. Perhaps we're missing some additional details why it came about to this... and I suspect it was the mother running her mouth about how this was outragious and unfair and that her daughter wouldn't hurt a fly..... basically being completely one sided on the whole matter and probably didn't even bother to talk to her daughter to tell her what she did wasn't exactly the best thing to do.

in a nut shell from what I heard and watched was that the school tried to deal with this as they normall would, the mother probably caused a big stink because she thinks her child is just oh-so innocent as most parents think their own children are, and thus the school enforced what they considdered appropreate for the situation.

Not each individual parent, but, as a whole, they carry stroke. And the instant that parents start standing up and demanding that schools use discretion rather than blanket policies which try to take these situations strictly on a black and white basis, you'll start seeing them actually exercise a bit of discretion instead of using fallbacks and catch phrases to excuse themselves from the job of teaching.

Then I suggest if and when this occurs (or something similar does) in the school your own children are in, you have a meeting with the school/school board and with other parents, address how these things are approached and listen to the schools and understand why and how they go about these processes in general. It may sound like a good idea to be addressing things like this with more discretion then with blanket polocies, but perhaps listen as to why they might use blanket polocies in the first place and put yourself in the shoes of these teachers who are not just responsible for your children, but for a crap load of children from many other families such as your own.... and some not like your own..... they have to balance in the middle ground of what all the families want and at the same time follow proceedures in which allows them to work in a safe environment.... they can not always accomidate one family or one parent's perspective on their own child.

 

[Praxius]

didn't think so

Oh yes.. the whole "I have a child and you don't, so you don't understand" mentality.... like I never interacted with children or had to teach people of a younger age then I.... oh... and that I don't have friends who have children and I haven't looked after them.... oh and that I'm an uncle of triplets and take care of them once in a while......Sorry if I don't get all emotionally clingly about kids and that I express things as unbiased as I can..... oh and I'm sorry that my unbiased approach doesn't suit the emotional side of things.

I don't need to express things as a parent, I am expressing my 1st hand experience with these situations as the child I was during those times.... I learned, I moved on... it's no big deal. (Hell it wasn't that long ago) Parents sometimes need to just back off and let their children learn things the hard way and stop trying to protect them at every turn in life.

Oh and if you haven't been suspended or have ever been written up as a student in your youth, then that's the exact same mentality as me not having a kid to protect in the same situation.... you don't know so how could you have input on the negative effects of this form of punishment? I mean, if you went through school all your life with high marks and never got in any trouble, or at least never was suspended and then all of a sudden one of your own kids get suspended, I imagine that could put your mind for a loop..... but it's not about to ruin the child's life or future and it's not about to send them down the path of crime and corruption... sheish.

 

[Praxius]

Oh and regardless if I have children at this point or not is irrelevent.... if you go up against the school board and/or the school itself over a situation such as this, you best be expected to face this same level of argument I am presenting, as they have to be unbiased most of the time in disiplinary decisions. When it comes to pep talks, teaching after hours, helping students with their problems, sure decretion is needed, but when they break the rules then that's a different ball game they have to play.

 

[no color]

If there are specific rules against bringing tools to school and the kid brings them, they yes he should be punished. What I don't get is the suspension. Even after all these years, don't school officials realize that suspensions are not punishment. The kids gets to stay home from school, what kind of punishment is that? I used to enjoy suspensions. Make the kid stay after school instead and give him more homework. That's a suitable punishment.

What ever happened to detention?

 

[Praxius]

Detention is more so just for acting out in class or not doing homework, etc..... when it comes to potiential injury or harm/risk to other students, then the suspensions come into play.... then expulsions.

 

[gerryh]

Oh yes.. the whole "I have a child and you don't, so you don't understand" mentality.... like I never interacted with children or had to teach people of a younger age then I.... oh... and that I don't have friends who have children and I haven't looked after them.... oh and that I'm an uncle of triplets and take care of them once in a while......Sorry if I don't get all emotionally clingly about kids and that I express things as unbiased as I can..... oh and I'm sorry that my unbiased approach doesn't suit the emotional side of things.

I don't need to express things as a parent, I am expressing my 1st hand experience with these situations as the child I was during those times.... I learned, I moved on... it's no big deal. (Hell it wasn't that long ago) Parents sometimes need to just back off and let their children learn things the hard way and stop trying to protect them at every turn in life.

Oh and if you haven't been suspended or have ever been written up as a student in your youth, then that's the exact same mentality as me not having a kid to protect in the same situation.... you don't know so how could you have input on the negative effects of this form of punishment? I mean, if you went through school all your life with high marks and never got in any trouble, or at least never was suspended and then all of a sudden one of your own kids get suspended, I imagine that could put your mind for a loop..... but it's not about to ruin the child's life or future and it's not about to send them down the path of crime and corruption... sheish.

:roll::roll::roll:


more proof that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about...... reminds me of the "teacher" fresh out of school that informed my wife and I that we didn't need to tell her ANYTHING about how to deal/teach an ADD child. 4 weeks after school started she called for a meeting... seems she couldn't control our dear little 9 year old.... I asked her why she called us? When she told me...I told her.."tough ****...your problem not mine...you're the expert, not me..... you went to "school" for this....not me....I'm 'just' a parent.....

Then there were my siblings and my wifes siblings...... ALL kinds of advice and critisism....untill they got kids of there own...ROFLMAO.... they found out REAL fast that neices, nephews, and neighbours kids are no where near the same as your own.....ROFLMAO


So...you just continue to show your stupidity...like everyone else, once you grow up you'll finally see how little you really knew.


As for teachers and principals... MY taxes pay their wages...I am the employer and they are the employee...they ALL found out how much easier life is when they worked with me rather than against me.

7 kids and counting....a couple were angels...a few weren't....and I didn't wear rose coloured glasses.

 

[darkbeaver]

Good start, kids might as well disassemble the education system from within, why wait till thier own offsprang begin to be illserved by the P3 pinheads, they're our most important resource. Each child should be issued a tool kit in first grade see a couple of howto films and get ather, tear it down darlings. An educational exercise at last.

 

[eh1eh]

P3 has its place. Education is not it.

 

[Praxius]

:roll::roll::roll:

more proof that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about......

Yeah, it reminds me of many others I come across each day.

reminds me of the "teacher" fresh out of school that informed my wife and I that we didn't need to tell her ANYTHING about how to deal/teach an ADD child. 4 weeks after school started she called for a meeting... seems she couldn't control our dear little 9 year old.... I asked her why she called us? When she told me...I told her.."tough ****...your problem not mine...you're the expert, not me..... you went to "school" for this....not me....I'm 'just' a parent.....

*twirls finger in the air* whoppie friggin do, what's your point? What does a situation of a child with ADD and a teacher claiming to be an expert in something they're not compare to a teacher or school enforcing the rules in their school as they should be?

In fact, what the hell does any of this have to do with explaining my own 1st hand experience with the punishments and rules I went through in school not even 10 years ago today? How the hell do I not know wtf I'm talking about when it comes to my own damn life?

Please explain that one to me because you're off on your own little planet with some thin air or something if you think any of the above relates to anything I'm talking about thus far...... By all means, fill me with your vast knowlege oh wise grasshopper.

Then there were my siblings and my wifes siblings...... ALL kinds of advice and critisism....untill they got kids of there own...ROFLMAO.... they found out REAL fast that neices, nephews, and neighbours kids are no where near the same as your own.....ROFLMAO

WOW, HA HA HA GEEZ WOW, like Great Story.... WOW! :-? Like I haven't heard that a thousand times before over the decades.

Oh and when did I tell you how to raise your kids? Oh and when did I say anything about raising your kids better then yourself?

Once again, what is your point? You're wasting my time.

So...you just continue to show your stupidity...like everyone else, once you grow up you'll finally see how little you really knew.

Yeah yeah, keep on your so awsome high horse like you know the answers to the universe... like I was even claiming to in the first place.

Do you see how much of an idiot you're looking like right now? Can you claim I'm showing my stupidity? You're going on about something I never even said.... in fact you seem to have been waiting for the closest thing you could that looked like it'd be questioning your oh so great level of knowlege with parenting and then decided to go ape sh*t for your own little drama queen rage.

I explained my level of experience and knowlege in the field I am debating in at the moment.... I didn't tell you I know better then you and I sure as hell am not about to claim you're any better then I..... or anybody else for that matter, so #1 - Grow up.

#2 - I was explaining how it is for the teachers when it comes to dealing with a class and all the students as a whole.... not about dealing with your child or anybody else's and giving them special treatments for something other children would be given punishments for.

As for teachers and principals... MY taxes pay their wages...I am the employer and they are the employee...they ALL found out how much easier life is when they worked with me rather than against me.

Wrong.... if you're in Canada then REALITY CHECK: They work for the Government, not you. Seriously put some brains into what you're saying for a second, cripes all mighty....

• If you were the teachers boss and you paid their salary then what do you think would happen when you have multiple parents telling you how to do your job? It doesn't happen, because it's stupid.

• The Teacher is just like the police.... just because your taxes pays their salary, doesn't mean that police officer still won't taser your sorry ass and slam you nice and good against the hood of the squad car, just like everyone else they deal with that your tax dollars pay for.

• The Teacher is the one who took the training, who is hired by the school, and who is responsible for the student and what they teach them, they answer to the Principal, the Teacher Union, and the school board..... Not you. If you got a problem with how the teacher is teaching your child, then take it up with the above. They can talk to you and answer your questions, but teachers don't have to follow any of your self-absorbed orders that you think you can get away with.

• Just because the teacher had to sit down and talk to you about your child, doesn't make you right.... it makes you responsible for your child, just like the mother in the original debate (Which this has already gone well beyond) and in order to come to a decent conclusion which is best for the student/child in the long run, both the teacher(s) and the parent(s) need to deal with the situation.

• This still has nothing to do with a child bringing a hammer, rocks and a screwdriver to school.... get back on topic.

7 kids and counting....a couple were angels...a few weren't....and I didn't wear rose coloured glasses.

Well ladi-da for you.... I'm happy for you, truly I am.... how about next time you relate to the topic in question and stop wasting my time with the "I'm a parent so blah blah blah"

I never said I know more then you, and you don't know more then I, we know different levels of different things, and when I do have children of my own, I will know a lot more then I know now, but I might know more then you do right at this very moment in certain aspects and vice versa.

Stop trying to compare and debate the situation at hand. It doesn't make you right unless it makes sense.

 

[gerryh]

What that LITTLE girl did, did NOT warrant a suspension. It warranted confiscation and a call to the parents...period...end of discussion...... That no mind principal needs to get her head out of her a$$ and start using the brains and common sense that god supposedly gave her. She's dealing with CHILDREN...not fricken terrorists!



As for the equally stupid comments about schools being more dangerous now than "before".... consider yourself lucky that YOUR school didn't have problems with violence when you grew up. Mine had knives....guns...teachers being threatened by both... cops being assualted in the hall ways.... and this was 30 years ago.... things are no different now than they were in the past when it comes to behaviour of kids.... biggest difference between then and now......The frickin Internet and how easy it is to access what's goin down ALL over the place...from around the corner to across the Ocean.

 

[lone wolf]

Insurance regs? Zero tolerance? What can we expect from "adults" who sexualize an empathetic hug between five-year-olds? I wonder if educators are really mature enough to be teaching kids any more...

Woof!

 

[gerryh]

Insurance regs? Zero tolerance? What can we expect from "adults" who sexualize an empathetic hug between five-year-olds? I wonder if educators are really mature enough to be teaching kids any more...

Woof!

The quick answer....NO.