9/11: Debunking The Myths

[I think not]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Exactly, who financed national institue of standards and technologie??


YOUR OWN GOVERNEMENT, which deserve to get a laugh at.

http://www.nist.gov/



IF this would happen in iran, you guys would scream for an invasion.

So let me get this straight, when a government organization exists in capitalism, it is corrupt and influenced by the government, but when the same organization exists under a socialist paradise, there is no government meddling? :roll:

The epitome of dumb common sense.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Exactly, who financed national institue of standards and technologie??


YOUR OWN GOVERNEMENT, which deserve to get a laugh at.

http://www.nist.gov/



IF this would happen in iran, you guys would scream for an invasion.

So let me get this straight, when a government organization exists in capitalism, it is corrupt and influenced by the government, but when the same organization exists under a socialist paradise, there is no government meddling? :roll:

The epitome of dumb common sense.

Man , if we want to know the truth, then let independant organisation taking care of it, with everything we saw from this administration on 9-11, it is normal that people doesnt trust them.

What the bloody hell socialist paridise has to do with this??

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Of course, it took 432 days to get a bi-partisan comission on 9-11, which bush tried to stop the congress to do it,
------------------aeon-------------------------------------

Response: In my mind that made the commission
even more independent. In fact, the public damned
the whole idea of Bush asking Kissinger to chair it.
That was a really stupid idea. Kissinger has way too
much baggage and would be too careful not to upset
the official line. Kean and Hamilton, were great picks.
Both independent, and both reached across party
lines not giving a damn about any partisan matter but
what was good for the truth.

?? kean is a republican , that is not independant my friend, quite far from it, and hamilton a democrate, none of the comissioner were independant, means not credible at all, do better than that jimmover, i am not stupid.

That was certainly suspicious on the surface.
But that was the only way the Commission could
get those two foot draggers in for questioning,
which makes it another point for the commission's
independence and resolve of especially those
two chairman, Kean and Hamilton, who both
complained on the slowness of administration responses.

On the other hand, for psychological reasons, I like
to take both suspicious people at the same time, just
to see how they interact and react to each other.

Separating those two accomplishes nothing because
you know they've already compared notes anyway.

Come on, that is lame what you are saying


---------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't really work that way. You would think so.
But the reality is that bombshells are too good
to keep secret especially in front of two men like
Kean and Hamilton whose loyalty was often to no
one but their own principles.

Ahahahaha lol, good one, very good one, i fell on my chair.

This whole comission was a total joke, and they laugh at the americans on their face.

Final thought:
It's a pretty damn good report in a damned imperfect world
and surprisingly avoids bureaucratese writing. You oughta
give it a second review.

Yeah a good report for ignorant and sheep, not for peeoples who ask themselves the real questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_H._Hamilton

On March 15, 2006, Congress announced the formation of the Iraq Study Group, organized by United States Institute of Peace, of which Hamilton is the Democratic co-chair, along with James Baker.

D you know who is james baker?


The lawyer who protect the saudis, when 500 9-11 family sued the saudis for terrorist, and also what is the other purpurse of james baker?? he took care of the business beetween the bin laden and the bushes during the 70.and the 80's. damn are you sure the united states isnt a banana republic? in a country of 300 millions of peoples, how come there is so much of interest conflict? we are 30 millions of people in canada, and nowhere near there is that much of interest conflict

 

[jimmoyer]

Aeon, your energy and passion on these matters are
of no doubt.

I see your sincerety on this.

I can even see why you say what you say.

I think there's more devil in the details than
the ones you posted and the other details you know
but didn't post yet.

For example you snatch a fact about James Baker's
connection to the bin Laden family. But, of course,
you know this is no mere Western style family in
the sense we know of Western families. This family
is more like a small city, with just Osama bin Laden having some 53 or 59 brothers.

And of course you know parts of the bin Laden family
has lived in Connecticut for years, decades.

Now even in Western style petite families, (you of
course also know) that family doesn't often agree with
each other.

You string the surface level of a fact without further
analysis.

And you're off dancing on the pin of another surface
fact.

And please, let me pull back here. There is no
doubt you have a lot of knowledge, and I suspect
you do yourself no justice trying to rush through
the myriad piles of facts to get your point across.

I'm no big Bush Family defender.

Anyway, hopefully we'll keep talking, and sharing
different angles on the matter.

There's one good thing I think James Baker did, and
that was go hat in hand to Russia and Europe to
get big business over there to forgive Saddam's debts
so this new phoenix of a country can someday rise
from the ashes we made.

My take on James Baker is that he is quite a
knowledgeable bastard, who has tried to keep the
House of Saud stable for OPEC and for world trade
and has known the Saud's bargain with the Devil
by paying the Wahhabi too much deference.

Now there's many flavors and levels to Wahabbi,
but the Saud House said, You let us Rule and we'll
leave you alone with your sharia type rulings.

Anyway, Aeon, I really do believe the details
will often defy both our views, when you finally
go around and around and around on all of this.

 

[Substance]

Sorry if my first post is a little harsh but I just wanted to say this before I forget.
(edit: Sorry if my grammer is horrible since I rushed it to make it short but its still long.)

1) For 9/11 Documenteries I noticed most Americans that look at it just push it aside without commenting on it and say "Ya its just bullcrap by some redneck.". How do you know if its bullcrap? If you think its false then please say how instead of just pushing it aside as if it was a toy.

2) From loose change the guy narrating said a plane meant to hit the Twin Towers was real but a dummy plane was used to fly the real passengers to another airport. The real plane would be used to crash into the Twin Towers but the fuel wasn't enough to destroy the towers. You know the Pentagon right? Well apperrently theres no tail section just one engine used for a Cessna. The lamp posts all unscrewed and laid down and not bent. People reported seeing a miliary cargo plane and a noise and bang of an American Cruise Missle. FBI took all the video tapes from every viewpoint looking at the Pentigon yet all you see is a blinding flash and no plane. Think about this before you dismiss this please.

3) The Firefighters took out all the flames and radioed it in. They then heard explosive devices being set off and were crushed. The ones that ran and survived the collapse said they heard and saw explosions from detonations (Dont belive me? Look at Loose Change please). Dont just wave me off or it.

4) This is my theory -> IF Osama is real we would have found him just like Saddam but since we didn't then he is just a CGI puppet or in Bush's mention. Seriously USA has the technology to find normal criminals hidden anywhere such as in a trash can or in a basement and you can still find them. Use an improved version since the military always gets the best and tada. Now give them to all your American troopers and then scout out at every blob even if its fake. It would be made easier when you give it to all your troops of course.

5) Mine and possibly other peoples thoughts - How the heck do you know that the Iraq's or Al Qeauda did it? Were you there first hand or did you believe everything the media told you?

Bush says "Oh ya....What was I supposed to say? Ah right.....American citizens today on 9/11 we were attacked by terrorists and we point the finger on the middle east."

American citizens "Bush said our enemies are the middle-eastern so i'll just be a patriotic American and ruin muslims while ruining my knowledge. I'll make myself stupider just so it would hurt less and get the world to hate us even more because we made ourselves even more ignorant."
What i'm trying to say with this 5th point is that you just point the finger and I could easily blame it on the French because you make fun of them. Yes the French hi-jacked a planes and crashed it into the Twin-Towers so they are now the enemies of the state.

Tony Blair could have staged the Subway bombings in London and another forced stagging could have been set in Spain. Wow. More traces towards middle-eastern desent terrorists. How ignorant of Bush.

6) So Terrorists using planes as WMD eh? Well I guess the planes flying over your head are WMD since there could be a terrorist in there atm. Maybe that American fellow you knew on the ground coulda took it over with a fork and stabbed the pilot (unreal). A hammer knocking out a pilot? Nah since a somethign similar happened with FedEx (Discovery Channel). How about a gun? Those are picked off by the ground security. Knife? Forced off. home made bomb? Sniffed off and scanned off. The only thing I can see that could have been used to take over a plane would be the secret Police agents inside the plane ment to prevent this sort of thing (Discovery Channel).

Time to end my first post since thats just rough for my first post. Dont just wave it off

 

[jimmoyer]

Substance, I won't wave your post off.

But step back away from the tree so you can
see more of the forest for a moment.

If you were to mastermind a hoax or conspiracy
and it involved say 100 people, could you, just
for the simple sake of the excercise, imagine
all the ways your plan could go wrong, all the ways
some of the secret might leak out, and what lengths
you would have to go to prevent those mistakes ?

Have you also not seen expert demolition crews
screw up the implosion of a building without having
to mastermind secrecy ???

I know you're asking for answers to each question
you posed, but perhaps this concept that another
person's job looks easy until YOU have to perform it.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Anyway, Aeon, I really do believe the details
will often defy both our views, when you finally
go around and around and around on all of this.

When i look at 9-11 in detail or in surface or from any other angle, everything that sorround alquada, doesnt even make sense, all evidence us officials brought are in question, alquada arent structure to do event like 9-11, all they do is blowing train, bus, club, but hijacking plane? never did until 9-11, from those who has profiteed from 9-11( carlysle group-bush sr and bin ladens are in-- bush approval went from 44% to 85%) through iraq, are basically the same peoples and business that the administration has close ties.The ties beetween the bush and bin laden and the saudis, US officials that refused to see saudi arabia as a terrorist states,The pnac , which is the basically the whole administration called for na invasion of iraq since 1998, and call for a plan , that will increased military budget like never seen before, and the plan will take decades to succeed, unless there is a new pearl harbor, 9 month after they are in the white house 9-11 happened.

So since, this is all facts, would it be normal that those who investigate 9-11 are in fact totally independant?

YEP

 

[Johnny Utah]

Sorry if my first post is a little harsh but I just wanted to say this before I forget.
(edit: Sorry if my grammer is horrible since I rushed it to make it short but its still long.)

1) For 9/11 Documenteries I noticed most Americans that look at it just push it aside without commenting on it and say "Ya its just bullcrap by some redneck.". How do you know if its bullcrap? If you think its false then please say how instead of just pushing it aside as if it was a toy.

2) From loose change the guy narrating said a plane meant to hit the Twin Towers was real but a dummy plane was used to fly the real passengers to another airport. The real plane would be used to crash into the Twin Towers but the fuel wasn't enough to destroy the towers. You know the Pentagon right? Well apperrently theres no tail section just one engine used for a Cessna. The lamp posts all unscrewed and laid down and not bent. People reported seeing a miliary cargo plane and a noise and bang of an American Cruise Missle. FBI took all the video tapes from every viewpoint looking at the Pentigon yet all you see is a blinding flash and no plane. Think about this before you dismiss this please.

3) The Firefighters took out all the flames and radioed it in. They then heard explosive devices being set off and were crushed. The ones that ran and survived the collapse said they heard and saw explosions from detonations (Dont belive me? Look at Loose Change please). Dont just wave me off or it.

4) This is my theory -> IF Osama is real we would have found him just like Saddam but since we didn't then he is just a CGI puppet or in Bush's mention. Seriously USA has the technology to find normal criminals hidden anywhere such as in a trash can or in a basement and you can still find them. Use an improved version since the military always gets the best and tada. Now give them to all your American troopers and then scout out at every blob even if its fake. It would be made easier when you give it to all your troops of course.

5) Mine and possibly other peoples thoughts - How the heck do you know that the Iraq's or Al Qeauda did it? Were you there first hand or did you believe everything the media told you?

Bush says "Oh ya....What was I supposed to say? Ah right.....American citizens today on 9/11 we were attacked by terrorists and we point the finger on the middle east."

American citizens "Bush said our enemies are the middle-eastern so i'll just be a patriotic American and ruin muslims while ruining my knowledge. I'll make myself stupider just so it would hurt less and get the world to hate us even more because we made ourselves even more ignorant."
What i'm trying to say with this 5th point is that you just point the finger and I could easily blame it on the French because you make fun of them. Yes the French hi-jacked a planes and crashed it into the Twin-Towers so they are now the enemies of the state.

Tony Blair could have staged the Subway bombings in London and another forced stagging could have been set in Spain. Wow. More traces towards middle-eastern desent terrorists. How ignorant of Bush.

6) So Terrorists using planes as WMD eh? Well I guess the planes flying over your head are WMD since there could be a terrorist in there atm. Maybe that American fellow you knew on the ground coulda took it over with a fork and stabbed the pilot (unreal). A hammer knocking out a pilot? Nah since a somethign similar happened with FedEx (Discovery Channel). How about a gun? Those are picked off by the ground security. Knife? Forced off. home made bomb? Sniffed off and scanned off. The only thing I can see that could have been used to take over a plane would be the secret Police agents inside the plane ment to prevent this sort of thing (Discovery Channel).

Time to end my first post since thats just rough for my first post. Dont just wave it off

:roll:
Holy Crap!

 

[jimmoyer]

Aeon, you might also consider that the loose,
non-centralized, amorphous network we label
al Qaeda tried in 1993 with a car bomb in the
basement garage of the Twin Towers and did
major structural damage to the Twin Towers
during the 1st year of Clinton's Presidency.

At that time there was no invasion of Iraq.
We hadn't even gone into Yugoslavia to push off
the Christian Serbs from Bosnian Muslims.

Why ignore the fact that al Qaeda has a motive here?

You don't think they danced for joy when
the Twin Towers went down ?

You didn't see the Palestinians fire guns gleefully
in the Streets loving every minute of it ?

If you impute all evil motive to Bush, you certainly
have not ruled out al Qaeda as suspect either.

Most arguments for a point of view are enhanced
when they are more balanced and put the same
burden on all possible suspects.

Again, you behave like those you accuse.

All the Bush defenders don't want to see any
value in your questions. But you too act like them
dismissing any suspicion of al Qaeda.

Like I say, we will go round and round and round
on this until the truth settles somewhere between
us.

My personal view is incompetence preceded this
disaster and incompetence of followup and accurate
forensics occurred after this disaster.

And I forgive much of this incompetence afterwards
because most people were too stunned to think correctly
during all the misery. You had firemen and police and
citizens witness people willingly jump out the window,
choosing Gravity over Fire for death.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Aeon, you might also consider that the loose,
non-centralized, amorphous network we label
al Qaeda tried in 1993 with a car bomb in the
basement garage of the Twin Towers and did
major structural damage to the Twin Towers
during the 1st year of Clinton's Presidency.

First of all , i d like to tell you , i really like your objectivity, same for five paradox, both of you , are the most objective in here, even though sometimes you tend to be more on the right,and disagree with me, but hey nobody is perfect, just kidding.

The one who was found guilty in 1993, was an iraqie, i dont remember the name, but i will find it out for you.

At that time there was no invasion of Iraq.
We hadn't even gone into Yugoslavia to push off
the Christian Serbs from Bosnian Muslims.

Why ignore the fact that al Qaeda has a motive here?.

True, alquada does have a motive, but are they enough organised and structures to do an event like 9-11? think about it....it is too well done and organised this event, it is a genius plan, and alquada members arent genious at all.

You don't think they danced for joy when
the Twin Towers went down ?

There was 5 israelis who filmed the entire scene on 9-11, and they were dancing when it was happening, they were arrested by police in new york, and they were mossad agents.

You didn't see the Palestinians fire guns gleefully
in the Streets loving every minute of it ?

True, palestinians were dancing when it happened, it is bad, , but nobody in usa can be mad at them, since us is a strong israeli supporter.

If you impute all evil motive to Bush, you certainly
have not ruled out al Qaeda as suspect either.

Most arguments for a point of view are enhanced
when they are more balanced and put the same
burden on all possible suspects.

Again, you behave like those you accuse.

.

All the Bush defenders don't want to see any
value in your questions. But you too act like them
dismissing any suspicion of al Qaeda.

I know, i try my best to stay objective, but i am not perfect at all, even though i try hard.

 

[jimmoyer]

Aeon, you're proving yourself to be much more
objective lately too.

I think we all fall into the trap of pushing and rushing
our facts and points too hard because we know
our audience is too resistant to give it a chance.

Regarding your assumption that al Qaeda is too
ill-equipped and structure-less to pull off a major
job, I'd have to ask you to analyze that further.

I would pose that bureaucracy being too structured
often fails and achieves heights of incompetence
more than a loosely, decentralized swat type unit
does.

This is one of the reasons why Rumsfeld is pissing
off the military, because he is putting Special Ops
above all of the traditional hidebound slow moving
military branches.

The al Qaeda format of independent cells is quite
effective and often more able to do a job than
distant management over an entire bureaucracy,
which often prevents a frontline in the trenches
decision making.

In fact, here's a little SciFi prediction for you.

After all the bull is said and done on Islamic vs West
and nations become more tied into global free trade,
you''ll see a Hegelian rebel antithesis arise much
in the format of an al Qaeda.

For every thesis, there will arise inevitably a rebel
antithesis.

Then the synthesis, which becomes the new Thesis.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming
on this thread.

 

[Curiosity]

JM Exhausting

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

I whole-heartedly agree with everything everyone has said......


can I get a dUCK OFF LOWE everyone?...thanks sAINTAID is up and running

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The Myths

Aeon, you're proving yourself to be much more
objective lately too.

You were right about 1993 wtc bombing, it was alquada who were suppositly behind it.But i don t get why the alquada member, youssef who were a koweiti, entered the united states, with a false iraqie passeport, but why would alquada want that usa think iraq is behind 1993 bombing? it doesnt make sense to me.

The World Trade Center bombing was the February 26, 1993 attack in the garage of the New York City World Trade Center. A car bomb was planted by an Islamist terrorist group, al-Qaeda, in the underground parking garage below Tower One. It killed six, injured over 1,000, and presaged the September 11, 2001 attacks on the same buildings.

A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, considered "the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks", gave him advice and tips over the phone, and funded him with a US$660 wire transfer.[citation needed]
Yousef entered the United States with a false Iraqi passport in 1992. Police found instructions on making a bomb in Yousef's partner's luggage. The name Abu Barra, which was an alias of Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, appeared in the manuals. Therefore, Yousef's partner was arrested on the spot for his false passport and his bomb-making instructions. INS holding cells were overcrowded and Yousef, claiming political asylum, was given a hearing date

In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, an Egyptian man named Emad A. Salem, a former Egyptian army officer. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of the hundreds of possible suspects.
Salem, initially believing that this was to be a sting operation, claimed that the FBI's original plan was for Salem to supply the conspirators with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb, but that the FBI chose to use him for other purposes instead. [1] He substantiated his claims with hundreds of hours of secretly-recorded conversations with his FBI handlers, made during discussions held after the bombings. They are currrently in possession of the FBI.
Salem said he wished to complain to FBI headquarters in Washington about the failure to prevent the bombing despite foreknowledge, but was dissuaded from doing so by the New York FBI office. The FBI has never contradicted Salem's account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

 

[jimmoyer]

You were right about 1993 wtc bombing, it was alquada who were suppositly behind it.But i don t get why the alquada member, youssef who were a koweiti, entered the united states, with a false iraqie passeport, but why would alquada want that usa think iraq is behind 1993 bombing? it doesnt make sense to me.
-------------------------aeon------------------------------

That's a good post, because now you're asking
questions instead of making assumptions.

If we can't get the whole story on trying an average
common criminal in court, I wonder how we imagine
we can ever get the full story on international intrigue?

And if we cannot convict the average common
criminal, supposing he is guilty, how can we hope
to actually convict with 100 percent surety any
international terrorist ?

Our observations and demands border on the
impossible and ridiculous.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

Nothings been debunked, but there has been a continuation and education surrounding the subject, and the questions that won't go away. I saw the results of a poll the other day and those who don't believe the official story are at 40% and rising, maybe the truth will become the truth.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

Nothings been debunked, but there has been a continuation and education surrounding the subject, and the questions that won't go away. I saw the results of a poll the other day and those who don't believe the official story are at 40% and rising, maybe the truth will become the truth.

I called demolition crew here in montreal last friday, the best known in quebec, to ask them what they think of the collapse of the wtc, they laughed at me, they only said, if i could find a building that collapse the same way as the wtc withouth explosives, in history, then they will quit their job to do something else.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

Goodday Aeon, www.physics.byu.edu/reserch/energy/htm7.htm

This site was recomended as haveing the answers but it's gone.

Have you noticed sites being shut down.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

Goodday Aeon, www.physics.byu.edu/reserch/energy/htm7.htm

This site was recomended as haveing the answers but it's gone.

Have you noticed sites being shut down.

That wouldnt surprise me, here is another link, or look for david griffin.

http://cruciblex.blogspot.com/

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: 9/11: Debunking The M

Goodday Aeon, www.physics.byu.edu/reserch/energy/htm7.htm

This site was recomended as haveing the answers but it's gone.

Have you noticed sites being shut down.

Yep, the losers can't pay their bills. Good news.