9/11: Debunking The Myths
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Hello I-think-not 
Canadians labor under the burden of misinformation, no-information and media spin to the degree that it’s usually more than a year after the event that news of some political nabob’s corruption actually hits the airwaves.
Canadians like to think their government is “better” than that of the United States. It’s a convenient myth that Noam Chomsky could have written “Necessary Illusions” about instead of targeting the American administration.
Few Canadians know that Placer Dome and Calgary based petroleum companies involvement in Sudan (to quote the CBC) “Talisman oil operations prolong Sudan civil war” Last Updated Thu Feb 24 10:08:10 2000
or that Canadian mining interests have been responsible for fouling the water supply of Mexican communities through unsound environmental practices.
Few Canadians realize that in the dreadful practice of the American military’s use of DU in its artillery ordinance, that that DU comes from Canada.
Canadians point to our non-involvement (enmasse) in Viet Nam and claim some moral victory while conveniently ignoring the millions made by Canadian Industries Limited selling bombs and bullets to the United States.
Sure Canadians have heard about drunken premiers berating the homeless in a mens mission and are familiar with the shoplifting antics of another but the more important stuff goes largely unnoticed.
Canadians are as ignorant as Americans when it comes to the corruption seething at the heart of Canadian politics. It doesn’t seem to strike any Canadian as corrupt that the recently replaced Paul Martin (as head of CSL) fired Canadian crews, reflagged his fleet and yet had the temerity to stand in parliament and chastise corporations for not paying their fair share of taxes… Oh yea he moved CSL’s offices “Offshore” to avoid paying those very same taxes….
You’ll have to forgive the vast majority of Canadians for their ignorance to some degree. It’s been the practice of Canadian media since John Diefenbaker to point to the evil monster living below the 49th parallel for instances of political corruption and ignore the malfeasance and waste Canadians are told is “good government”.
Canadians are happily deluded about their own situation and take comfort in hiding behind the “hewer’s of wood and haulers of water” image that distances them from taking responsibility.
Canadians labor under the burden of misinformation, no-information and media spin to the degree that it’s usually more than a year after the event that news of some political nabob’s corruption actually hits the airwaves.
Canadians like to think their government is “better” than that of the United States. It’s a convenient myth that Noam Chomsky could have written “Necessary Illusions” about instead of targeting the American administration.
Few Canadians know that Placer Dome and Calgary based petroleum companies involvement in Sudan (to quote the CBC) “Talisman oil operations prolong Sudan civil war” Last Updated Thu Feb 24 10:08:10 2000
or that Canadian mining interests have been responsible for fouling the water supply of Mexican communities through unsound environmental practices.
Few Canadians realize that in the dreadful practice of the American military’s use of DU in its artillery ordinance, that that DU comes from Canada.
Canadians point to our non-involvement (enmasse) in Viet Nam and claim some moral victory while conveniently ignoring the millions made by Canadian Industries Limited selling bombs and bullets to the United States.
Sure Canadians have heard about drunken premiers berating the homeless in a mens mission and are familiar with the shoplifting antics of another but the more important stuff goes largely unnoticed.
Canadians are as ignorant as Americans when it comes to the corruption seething at the heart of Canadian politics. It doesn’t seem to strike any Canadian as corrupt that the recently replaced Paul Martin (as head of CSL) fired Canadian crews, reflagged his fleet and yet had the temerity to stand in parliament and chastise corporations for not paying their fair share of taxes… Oh yea he moved CSL’s offices “Offshore” to avoid paying those very same taxes….
You’ll have to forgive the vast majority of Canadians for their ignorance to some degree. It’s been the practice of Canadian media since John Diefenbaker to point to the evil monster living below the 49th parallel for instances of political corruption and ignore the malfeasance and waste Canadians are told is “good government”.
Canadians are happily deluded about their own situation and take comfort in hiding behind the “hewer’s of wood and haulers of water” image that distances them from taking responsibility.
RE: 9/11: Debunking The M
Some do some do not, and since you're flying the national rag it's hard to tell what you would call responsibility. What do you recomend?
Some do some do not, and since you're flying the national rag it's hard to tell what you would call responsibility. What do you recomend?
Hi Darkbeaver.
Humanity erects institutions to serve its collective purposes. The institution of law is to serve justice. ‘Justice’ itself holds no moral imperative (as laws which favor one collective over another readily reflect). Morality is a human construct shaped and often re-shaped to satisfy prejudices. One can’t for instance successfully synthesize the moral “standard” that killing someone is “wrong” in all cases with killing someone to serve the interests of one collective irrespective of the interests of all others.
And it’s entirely appropriate to examine the foundation and predicates to any moral ethos purported by some to be “properly” regarded as representative of a substantively superior or “higher” moral quality.
Petroleum interests in the United States Britain and the former Soviet Union created the sad situation in Afghanistan. The world never went to war to stop opium production in Afghanistan. The world never went to war to stop fundamentalist Islamic barbarians from brutalizing and murdering women and children in Afghanistan. The “coalition of the willing” is in Afghanistan to prosecute a policy intended to protect the exclusivity of petroleum industry’s interests. PERIOD
It is the appetite of westerners who’ve celebrated unbridled consumerism for decades who’re behind the atrocities we witness in Afghanistan and many other trouble spots throughout the modern world. A consumerism fostered and inflamed by greedy empires of industrialists and “businessmen” whose regard for the welfare of the planet, as a whole has never and will never be considered ahead of personal wealth and power.
We’ve glimpsed the moral fabric of American service personnel (as directed by a corrupt and disingenuous administration) through the window of Abu Ghraib. We know that the lies exaggerations and dire warnings of the American administration with respect to Iraq were the “necessary” prevarications to usurp and commandeer what moral justification (a bizarre notion considering the body itself!) was found available at the United Nations.
We know that there have been lies and complex fabrications produced by the United States (see the “rescue” of Jessica Lynch),… “Her Iraqi guards had long fled, she was being well cared for - and doctors had already tried to free her. John Kampfner discovers the real story behind a modern American war myth”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,956255,00.html
And the infamous “Babies throw from incubators by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait…
“The invented story eventually broke apart and was exposed. (I first saw it reported in December of 1992 on CBC-TV's Fifth Estate – Canada's "60 Minutes" – in a program called "Selling the War." The show later won an international Emmy.) But it's been 10 years since it happened, and we again find ourselves facing dramatic decisions about war. It is instructive to look back at what happened, in order that we do not find ourselves deceived again, by either side in the issue.”
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0906-01.htm
If the question is, “What ‘justice’ is served by Canadian military service personnel dying in Afghanistan” what is the answer?
The answer is that the institution of Justice (with respect to Afghanistan) has been sold to Canadians through lies and misdirection, wrapped in patriotism and as a call to some ersatz “duty”.
It’s far less personally uncomfortable to acknowledge how naïve you might be than it is to accept the facts as they are. Hopefully those who think Canadians dying in Afghanistan is appropriate will choose the former.
Any Canadian death in Afghanistan is a crime against not only the families friends and fellow Canadians watching this circus unfold but a crime against the very substance of justice and law.
Stephen Harper should be ashamed.
Humanity erects institutions to serve its collective purposes. The institution of law is to serve justice. ‘Justice’ itself holds no moral imperative (as laws which favor one collective over another readily reflect). Morality is a human construct shaped and often re-shaped to satisfy prejudices. One can’t for instance successfully synthesize the moral “standard” that killing someone is “wrong” in all cases with killing someone to serve the interests of one collective irrespective of the interests of all others.
And it’s entirely appropriate to examine the foundation and predicates to any moral ethos purported by some to be “properly” regarded as representative of a substantively superior or “higher” moral quality.
Petroleum interests in the United States Britain and the former Soviet Union created the sad situation in Afghanistan. The world never went to war to stop opium production in Afghanistan. The world never went to war to stop fundamentalist Islamic barbarians from brutalizing and murdering women and children in Afghanistan. The “coalition of the willing” is in Afghanistan to prosecute a policy intended to protect the exclusivity of petroleum industry’s interests. PERIOD
It is the appetite of westerners who’ve celebrated unbridled consumerism for decades who’re behind the atrocities we witness in Afghanistan and many other trouble spots throughout the modern world. A consumerism fostered and inflamed by greedy empires of industrialists and “businessmen” whose regard for the welfare of the planet, as a whole has never and will never be considered ahead of personal wealth and power.
We’ve glimpsed the moral fabric of American service personnel (as directed by a corrupt and disingenuous administration) through the window of Abu Ghraib. We know that the lies exaggerations and dire warnings of the American administration with respect to Iraq were the “necessary” prevarications to usurp and commandeer what moral justification (a bizarre notion considering the body itself!) was found available at the United Nations.
We know that there have been lies and complex fabrications produced by the United States (see the “rescue” of Jessica Lynch),… “Her Iraqi guards had long fled, she was being well cared for - and doctors had already tried to free her. John Kampfner discovers the real story behind a modern American war myth”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,956255,00.html
And the infamous “Babies throw from incubators by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait…
“The invented story eventually broke apart and was exposed. (I first saw it reported in December of 1992 on CBC-TV's Fifth Estate – Canada's "60 Minutes" – in a program called "Selling the War." The show later won an international Emmy.) But it's been 10 years since it happened, and we again find ourselves facing dramatic decisions about war. It is instructive to look back at what happened, in order that we do not find ourselves deceived again, by either side in the issue.”
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0906-01.htm
If the question is, “What ‘justice’ is served by Canadian military service personnel dying in Afghanistan” what is the answer?
The answer is that the institution of Justice (with respect to Afghanistan) has been sold to Canadians through lies and misdirection, wrapped in patriotism and as a call to some ersatz “duty”.
It’s far less personally uncomfortable to acknowledge how naïve you might be than it is to accept the facts as they are. Hopefully those who think Canadians dying in Afghanistan is appropriate will choose the former.
Any Canadian death in Afghanistan is a crime against not only the families friends and fellow Canadians watching this circus unfold but a crime against the very substance of justice and law.
Stephen Harper should be ashamed.
What a bunch of of leftwinger standard "follow the herd thinking ," equal to what the herd of rightwingers follow.
The truth is in between both herds of thinking.
The truth is in between both herds of thinking.
Have a little mercy, your post has too much in it
and I'm too lazy to attack it line by line for all of
its predictable standard thinking.
But just a sample:
You stated:
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We’ve glimpsed the moral fabric of American service personnel (as directed by a corrupt and disingenuous administration) through the window of Abu Ghraib."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said the truth is in between. It is not your
smug sweeping observation nor is it the lies of the
rightwing who are blind to Abu Ghraib going straight
up to the top in US government.
On the average to a man, the soldier is quite more
honorable than the confused tabula rasa of your
average manipulated suicide bomber.
That's just one example.
You create too much work for me. You're in the
mind meld of one herd's Zeitgeist.
and I'm too lazy to attack it line by line for all of
its predictable standard thinking.
But just a sample:
You stated:
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We’ve glimpsed the moral fabric of American service personnel (as directed by a corrupt and disingenuous administration) through the window of Abu Ghraib."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said the truth is in between. It is not your
smug sweeping observation nor is it the lies of the
rightwing who are blind to Abu Ghraib going straight
up to the top in US government.
On the average to a man, the soldier is quite more
honorable than the confused tabula rasa of your
average manipulated suicide bomber.
That's just one example.
You create too much work for me. You're in the
mind meld of one herd's Zeitgeist.
How wonderful it must be to see the absolute truth of all you survey and command the insight and knowledge to pigeonhole everyone with whom you disagree.
See you found your thesaurus
See you found your thesaurus
Jimmoyer
If I’m incorrect in naming the fraud of the Jessica Lynch “rescue” as indicative of the degree of honesty being demonstrated by the United States and its “coalition of the willing” please tell me how this is “left-wing”?
If I’m right, that prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib (as seen on videotape) was ordered by those in command of those folks committing those acts, is it totally unfair to call this policy “corrupt” in the face of the Geneva Conventions for instance…. Or would you call that “right-wing”???
If the American media so wholeheartedly parrots the propaganda of the US military and prints lies about Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators, is that something only the “right-wing” has a “right” to offer comment on?
Notwithstanding that there were no WMD and that thousands upon thousands of people were executed by the American military on the pretext of exaggeration and lies, how is this left-wing…..?
Are you suggesting that the “truth” is right-wing or that the truth of these events is somehow caught somewhere between your notions of left-wing and right-wing as opposed to being capable of standing to the light of inquiry on their own as determination of truth or falsehood….?
What are you saying here my friend?
You throw out some reference to Tabula Rasa like that’s intended to convey the idea that blank-slated-ness of the jihadist is less preferable than say the saber rattlings of the graduates of the School of the Americas????
The camp your entrenched in seems to be Egyptian in origin…
Sitting near de Nile.
If I’m incorrect in naming the fraud of the Jessica Lynch “rescue” as indicative of the degree of honesty being demonstrated by the United States and its “coalition of the willing” please tell me how this is “left-wing”?
If I’m right, that prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib (as seen on videotape) was ordered by those in command of those folks committing those acts, is it totally unfair to call this policy “corrupt” in the face of the Geneva Conventions for instance…. Or would you call that “right-wing”???
If the American media so wholeheartedly parrots the propaganda of the US military and prints lies about Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators, is that something only the “right-wing” has a “right” to offer comment on?
Notwithstanding that there were no WMD and that thousands upon thousands of people were executed by the American military on the pretext of exaggeration and lies, how is this left-wing…..?
Are you suggesting that the “truth” is right-wing or that the truth of these events is somehow caught somewhere between your notions of left-wing and right-wing as opposed to being capable of standing to the light of inquiry on their own as determination of truth or falsehood….?
What are you saying here my friend?
You throw out some reference to Tabula Rasa like that’s intended to convey the idea that blank-slated-ness of the jihadist is less preferable than say the saber rattlings of the graduates of the School of the Americas????
The camp your entrenched in seems to be Egyptian in origin…
Sitting near de Nile.
It's okay Valentine_Smith. Sorry for coming on too
harsh. But the passion in your post where you "see the
absolute truth of all you survey and command the
insight..", stirred me up enough to say it is not
the final word on the matter, that the truth really
is in between the left and right herd thinking.
The matters of wealth and poverty are far deeper
than the politics of right and left can psychologically
handle, and how world trade does far more than
the piddly offerings of foreign aid, a contribution that
has no vitality nor staying power, yet still is necessary
but claims more victory than it can prove.
The last paragraph speaks to your half-right remarks
on consumerism and how this stimulates trade and services and
I would agree with some of your negative definitions of it
except for who by fiat is going to tell you the consumer what
to do ?
harsh. But the passion in your post where you "see the
absolute truth of all you survey and command the
insight..", stirred me up enough to say it is not
the final word on the matter, that the truth really
is in between the left and right herd thinking.
The matters of wealth and poverty are far deeper
than the politics of right and left can psychologically
handle, and how world trade does far more than
the piddly offerings of foreign aid, a contribution that
has no vitality nor staying power, yet still is necessary
but claims more victory than it can prove.
The last paragraph speaks to your half-right remarks
on consumerism and how this stimulates trade and services and
I would agree with some of your negative definitions of it
except for who by fiat is going to tell you the consumer what
to do ?
Jimmoyer
I’d agree that the dynamics of economics (trade or foreign aid) aren’t the exclusive bailiwick of either left side or right side aisle in any government.
At risk of inviting your ire further I’d suggest to you that the notion of left and right is a fabrication. That there aren’t two parties (of major influence in the US…i.e. Dems and Reps) but one. And that one has to do with preserving the status quo with those holding positions of power wealth and authority using everything and anything to maintain that grip.
All governments are slaves to appetites. Appetites to power and wealth and appetites of a cultured consumerism that blinds the average person to the larger world that exists.
To imagine for a moment that there is some higher moral principle involved in killing Afghanis or Iraqis or the Sudanese or any number of identified “evil-doers” from thirty-thousand feet with “smart-bombs” is the fabric of hubris woven to maintain a moral legitimacy, and shrouded in the flummery of right and wrong to hide the greater underlying truth.
By the way is that picture accompanying your posts an English muffin or the moon….
I’d agree that the dynamics of economics (trade or foreign aid) aren’t the exclusive bailiwick of either left side or right side aisle in any government.
At risk of inviting your ire further I’d suggest to you that the notion of left and right is a fabrication. That there aren’t two parties (of major influence in the US…i.e. Dems and Reps) but one. And that one has to do with preserving the status quo with those holding positions of power wealth and authority using everything and anything to maintain that grip.
All governments are slaves to appetites. Appetites to power and wealth and appetites of a cultured consumerism that blinds the average person to the larger world that exists.
To imagine for a moment that there is some higher moral principle involved in killing Afghanis or Iraqis or the Sudanese or any number of identified “evil-doers” from thirty-thousand feet with “smart-bombs” is the fabric of hubris woven to maintain a moral legitimacy, and shrouded in the flummery of right and wrong to hide the greater underlying truth.
By the way is that picture accompanying your posts an English muffin or the moon….
LOL, Valentine_Smith !!
I'd have to agree with your entire last post.
Including the muffin or the moon question.
But let's talk about the left-right thing. On one level
I just use it as "shortspeak", a fast way to get to a
point.
George Orwell taught us that
removing words from a dictionary makes thoughts
and communication cumbersome. So is it not easier
to say the word LEFT or RIGHT without going through
some politically correct acceptably verbose paragraph
when one word might suffice ?
And on another level, you are quite correct about
the artificial left and right categories.
And on yet another level, most of us do fit often
in one camp of thinking and are subject to the headlines
and mindthink of that particular herd.
Each level of this RIGHT LEFT thing is true.
As an American conservative, I'm appalled at the
corrupted lobbyists owned by big spending big
government Republicans who forgot who voted for
them and why.
Regarding your other assertions on OIL, WAR, Afghanistan, suicide bombers, soldiers ----all are
eminently debateable in detail.
I'd have to agree with your entire last post.
Including the muffin or the moon question.
But let's talk about the left-right thing. On one level
I just use it as "shortspeak", a fast way to get to a
point.
George Orwell taught us that
removing words from a dictionary makes thoughts
and communication cumbersome. So is it not easier
to say the word LEFT or RIGHT without going through
some politically correct acceptably verbose paragraph
when one word might suffice ?
And on another level, you are quite correct about
the artificial left and right categories.
And on yet another level, most of us do fit often
in one camp of thinking and are subject to the headlines
and mindthink of that particular herd.
Each level of this RIGHT LEFT thing is true.
As an American conservative, I'm appalled at the
corrupted lobbyists owned by big spending big
government Republicans who forgot who voted for
them and why.
Regarding your other assertions on OIL, WAR, Afghanistan, suicide bombers, soldiers ----all are
eminently debateable in detail.
Valentine_Smith said:
Or that Canadian and American mining interests spend more cleaning up the environment around their mining operations than most of the host governments spend on their entire environmental budgets.
I'm suggesting we make the destruction of our planet so costly to corporations (Talisman, Placer Dome, Union Carbide, Exxon etc.) that to conceive of taking shortcuts and using every effort to avoid responsibility costs too dearly to be entertained.
I'm talking jail time here.
Trying to clean it up after its happened is the same backward thinking that's got us to this mess we're in in the first place!
I'm talking jail time here.
Trying to clean it up after its happened is the same backward thinking that's got us to this mess we're in in the first place!
As hard as it might be for you to believe, Valentine_Smith, the CURE is often worse than
the Crime.
For now, it's just an idea for you to consider
without going into detail.
There are so many factors in your CURE to consider.
And it's not just one.
I'm a very strong environmentalist, but the conservation
movement needs to learn its ECON 101 to be more
effective than frustration sputtering about.
the Crime.
For now, it's just an idea for you to consider
without going into detail.
There are so many factors in your CURE to consider.
And it's not just one.
I'm a very strong environmentalist, but the conservation
movement needs to learn its ECON 101 to be more
effective than frustration sputtering about.
Valentine_Smith said:
First, its not just private corporations. The chemical plant at Bhopal was 51%-owned by the Indian government (though operated by Union Carbide.) Here's a description of what happened with Codelco, the Chilean-owned company.
Second, I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that punishment should be greater for those breaking the law. But who gets the punishment? Why should the Chairman of Exxon be punished because the captain of one of his tankers is drunk and runs aground?
Jimmoyer on left and right.
Hi Jim…..I’m betting it’s an English muffin…
I’ve heard two although I suspect there’s several iterations with respect to the etiology of the terms “right” and “left”. One attributing the phraseology to the British and the other citing the French government as the source.
Liberal and Conservative are the shall we agree…companion notions or concepts, however, I’ve always felt that the small “L” liberal juxtaposed to the small “C” conservative weren’t awfully different when push comes to shove.
And quite frankly I could care less.
I’ve yet to find either a “liberal” or a “conservative” that wasn’t just as equally vulnerable to those negative influences that are so often cited as the exclusive purview of the Liberal (if it’s a Conservative doing the analysis…and vice versa of course..)
Besides, the far greater distinction in terms of outlook and interface with politics, economics, the environment, sports and life itself is alive or dead.
I want your children and everyone else’s children to belong to the party of the Alive.
Unless we take time to examine what the heck we’re doing and actually do something to effect change where needed, it’s all just a matter of time until we’re members of the party that can’t to anything anyway.
So have I got you completely confused now or do you still think I’m just another sheeple of some political leftist or rightist convention…: )
AS far as my CURE (industrial eco-devastation practiced as “profit-making”, not enough has ever been done and so long as people believe that economies come before clean air and water I suspect nothing will ever be done.
Hi Jim…..I’m betting it’s an English muffin…
I’ve heard two although I suspect there’s several iterations with respect to the etiology of the terms “right” and “left”. One attributing the phraseology to the British and the other citing the French government as the source.
Liberal and Conservative are the shall we agree…companion notions or concepts, however, I’ve always felt that the small “L” liberal juxtaposed to the small “C” conservative weren’t awfully different when push comes to shove.
And quite frankly I could care less.
I’ve yet to find either a “liberal” or a “conservative” that wasn’t just as equally vulnerable to those negative influences that are so often cited as the exclusive purview of the Liberal (if it’s a Conservative doing the analysis…and vice versa of course..)
Besides, the far greater distinction in terms of outlook and interface with politics, economics, the environment, sports and life itself is alive or dead.
I want your children and everyone else’s children to belong to the party of the Alive.
Unless we take time to examine what the heck we’re doing and actually do something to effect change where needed, it’s all just a matter of time until we’re members of the party that can’t to anything anyway.
So have I got you completely confused now or do you still think I’m just another sheeple of some political leftist or rightist convention…: )
AS far as my CURE (industrial eco-devastation practiced as “profit-making”, not enough has ever been done and so long as people believe that economies come before clean air and water I suspect nothing will ever be done.
AS far as my CURE (industrial eco-devastation practiced as “profit-making”, not enough has ever been done and so long as people believe that economies come before clean air and water I suspect nothing will ever be done.
-----------------Valentine_Smith----------------
I think Toro's post on some of the corporate sins
point out the devil in the details in prosecution.
And inevitably people who simply hate corporations
don't like such details getting in their way.
As far as your post, the only way we can join in
a party of the Alive is to get smarter on how to
accomplish those aims. This false dichotomy between
environmentalists and business was first bridged
when Environmental Impact studies were demanded
before zoning was allowed, and made business calculate
the cost of environment as part of their costs of
doing business.
This is a good and practical and honest way of
denying or allowing business to operate in our
local areas.
Environmentalists are so radicalized by the corruption
they see, that they've lost their heads in anger, giving
up any intelligent leverage they can have.
Let's agree on this environment thing, but
let us all agree that if we stipulate business and
conservationists as perpetual enemies, then it will
always be thus.
And not much will get accomplished.
Other than the Environmental Impact studies required
by zoning and planning boards on the local level, we
got business interested in GREEN TECH because people
are going to buy it and want it.
We also have alot of people clamoring for OIL
INDEPENDENCE.
You'll see the market react. Let's give it a push.
-----------------Valentine_Smith----------------
I think Toro's post on some of the corporate sins
point out the devil in the details in prosecution.
And inevitably people who simply hate corporations
don't like such details getting in their way.
As far as your post, the only way we can join in
a party of the Alive is to get smarter on how to
accomplish those aims. This false dichotomy between
environmentalists and business was first bridged
when Environmental Impact studies were demanded
before zoning was allowed, and made business calculate
the cost of environment as part of their costs of
doing business.
This is a good and practical and honest way of
denying or allowing business to operate in our
local areas.
Environmentalists are so radicalized by the corruption
they see, that they've lost their heads in anger, giving
up any intelligent leverage they can have.
Let's agree on this environment thing, but
let us all agree that if we stipulate business and
conservationists as perpetual enemies, then it will
always be thus.
And not much will get accomplished.
Other than the Environmental Impact studies required
by zoning and planning boards on the local level, we
got business interested in GREEN TECH because people
are going to buy it and want it.
We also have alot of people clamoring for OIL
INDEPENDENCE.
You'll see the market react. Let's give it a push.
This topic has been hijacked into another topic entirely...
can we please continue 9/11 - some valid points were being made and I would enjoy seeing what comes of them.
Excuse the interruption. :roll:
can we please continue 9/11 - some valid points were being made and I would enjoy seeing what comes of them.
Excuse the interruption. :roll: