5 Questions about Islam

[Shia]

wow... so world really think of my faith like this!! Interesting!! I might not be a perfect muslim but let me answer those questions for you! (please keep in mind this is just my own opinion and has nothing to do with the Whole muslim world)


(1) Why are you so quiet?

Hmm you want muslim people to stand up against the terrorists... But how do you expect them to do that...when Israel has an army, nuclear power and is backed by US who control U.N. ? who is being repressed there.. :|

Many muslim people regret the loss of american people on the 9/11, but americans didnt considered anything...and they blindly started attacking all these muslim nations...iraq, afghanistan... they never bathered helping israel and palestine reach peace... but instead they started more wars. How do you expect muslim people to stand up when All american policy is "whatever the hell they want to do" ... U.N was suppose to be a peace keeping organization..and they have turned it into their own agency... where they veto power anything other nations have to say... and then nothing gets done!! I can also ask this question to the non-muslims. How come they dont stand up for us when we are getting oppressed.

I am not saying All muslims are good muslims! We are humans, and we also make mistakes, but right now if you look around the world, we are the only ones that are being attacked. (please dont get me into the african conflicts, cause I am not into their circle of life) lol

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

They are a minority group, and most of them become refuggees when any war happens... they move to different regions... when it stops, they come back with their bibles and start blessing the people and try to revert them. hehe Another possible reason is media... It doesnt want to show such facts...

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

Free? well what do you mean free? Does it have anything to do with democracy...cause if so, most of them are democratic countries. There are some kingdom rules.. but that is by people's choice. They also have a kingdom in The NEtherlands and UK... :| but people still call them free countries..~!

(anyone that can clarify me the meaning of free, then I can answer it for them)

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

I suppose its because Muslims unlike other religions take their faith seriously. I personally find it riduculous of people to commit murder in the name of God. IT happens... but what I find amazing is that, when ever something happens in a islamic country, the headlines on the news usually states its done by MUSLIMS... or it was an act of islamic extremists, and one of my favorites radical islamists!!! they never say Murder took place in indonesia... or a girl got raped in yemen. It always comes out, to be something to do with Islam or muslims.

For once I would love to hear the headline, an extreme christan sends troops to iraq!! haha
The only fact I must agree with you in this question is, about honor killing. Its the one thing I regret myself, and many of my other muslim friends also agree with me on this.


(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

I am sure by this question they are talking about IRAN... and why it is so anti-jewish. Well come to think of it, look what has been happening to palestine for the past god knows how many years. The palestinian's one suicide bomber who apparantly dies off and takes how much, 8 or 10 people with him? ... and compared that to Israel's aircrafts... and its latest missiles... who is also being supported by America.. !! who do you think is standing up for palestinians? ... none of the other muslim countries are helping...none of the non-muslim countries feel their pain.. ! when iran took a stand... all of a sudden people are raising eye-brows!! :munky2:



I believe all of this can still be stopped...if american people hire a muslim person to help them in a peace keeping strategy!! All they need to show is some right set of guides.. I mean, what can they loose? ..

 

[Just the Facts]

Darfur is a repressive regime which happens to be Islamic killing animistic and christian southerners, not islam versus islam.

The killing of Christians is in the south of Sudan, not in Darfur. The massacres in Darfur are Sudanese government supported Arab Muslims killing Black Muslims. I applaud you, however, for at least being aware of the "cleansing" of Christians in the south. Most people have no idea.

Facts are important.

 

[Just the Facts]

wow... so world really think of my faith like this!! Interesting!! I might not be a perfect muslim but let me answer those questions for you! (please keep in mind this is just my own opinion and has nothing to do with the Whole muslim world)


(1) Why are you so quiet?

Hmm you want muslim people to stand up against the terrorists... But how do you expect them to do that...when Israel has an army, nuclear power and is backed by US who control U.N. ? who is being repressed there.. :|

I don't think anyone expects you to take up arms against the terrorists. I think what was more expected was an ideological battle with the terrorists. Terrorists use the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence to justify themselves, and also to recruit. Why can they not be definitively proven incorrect in their interpretation?

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

They are a minority group, and most of them become refuggees when any war happens... they move to different regions... when it stops, they come back with their bibles and start blessing the people and try to revert them. hehe Another possible reason is media... It doesnt want to show such facts...

I don't know enough about this to comment definitively, but I do know that Christians in Palestine and in the Muslim world are having a very rough go of it.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

Free? well what do you mean free? ... (anyone that can clarify me the meaning of free, then I can answer it for them)

Freedom of conscience. Freedom to speak. Freedom to worship as one sees fit. Freedom from persecution. These freedoms are for all practical purposes non-existant in most Islamic nations.

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

For once I would love to hear the headline, an extreme christan sends troops to iraq!! haha
The only fact I must agree with you in this question is, about honor killing. Its the one thing I regret myself, and many of my other muslim friends also agree with me on this.

There is a difference between a Muslim commiting a crime and a Muslim who procalims himself to be killing for the sake of his religion. No one calls a Muslim who robs a liquor store for profit a terrorist.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

I am sure by this question they are talking about IRAN... and why it is so anti-jewish. Well come to think of it, look what has been happening to palestine for the past god knows how many years. The palestinian's one suicide bomber who apparantly dies off and takes how much, 8 or 10 people with him? ... and compared that to Israel's aircrafts... and its latest missiles... who is also being supported by America.. !! who do you think is standing up for palestinians? ... none of the other muslim countries are helping...none of the non-muslim countries feel their pain.. ! when iran took a stand... all of a sudden people are raising eye-brows!! :munky2:



I believe all of this can still be stopped...if american people hire a muslim person to help them in a peace keeping strategy!! All they need to show is some right set of guides.. I mean, what can they loose? ..

No not just Iran. There is no religious freedom in ANY Islamic nation. At all. Period.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/country/Saudi Arabia/religious apartheid in sa.htm

 

[Shia]

I don't think anyone expects you to take up arms against the terrorists. I think what was more expected was an ideological battle with the terrorists. Terrorists use the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence to justify themselves, and also to recruit. Why can they not be definitively proven incorrect in their interpretation?

Guess what..we would proove them wrong if what they say wasnt true. But they are right, when a country is being oppressed by a stronger power, what should the world do? Let it go? Most of the time, that is how it goes, they react either too late, or they drag along this whole "peace" allegations until a mass genocide has already occured!!

Example: bosnia

I don't know enough about this to comment definitively, but I do know that Christians in Palestine and in the Muslim world are having a very rough go of it.

How come other christans dont resolve this...I see muslims defending the country..why is it that Mr. Bush keeps on supporting Israel. If they want to resolve the iran issue, they will definately have to resolve the palestinian issue first. It will show the iranians, that they meant well for the muslims. :thumbup:

Freedom of conscience. Freedom to speak. Freedom to worship as one sees fit. Freedom from persecution. These freedoms are for all practical purposes non-existant in most Islamic nations.

Freedom of conscience? Perhaps one should first look in the mirror, before making such judgement. Mr. Bush decision to go to war against iraq went against the majority's of the american people's will,but he still went on. I thought america was the land of freedom, if the president go against the people's will, what freedom are they talking about then.. :| Muslim countries have more freedom than that, with only a few exceptions, but you cant say they dont have freedom, thats their own will to stay under an anarchy rules. There is no point in enforcing "freedom". I believe alot of developed muslim countries have freedom of religion, e.g Pakistan, indonesia, turkie, etc.

There is a difference between a Muslim commiting a crime and a Muslim who procalims himself to be killing for the sake of his religion. No one calls a Muslim who robs a liquor store for profit a terrorist.

um so who ever is fighting for their faith, belief is considered to be a terrorist? hmm was it blair or mr. bush who said that God told him to go to war against iraq? ohh and Also Israel is fighting palestinain for their land that was given to them by God, so we all are fighting for somewhat our beliefs'... are we all terrorists then?...btw that is exactly the problem, when a muslim person robs a liquor store, they have headlines all accross cnn, on international media that a "Muslim robbed a liquor store!" infact there are so many other people that steal those stores all the time and they never put that as news headings. Bias'd media!

No not just Iran. There is no religious freedom in ANY Islamic nation. At all. Period.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion... in sa.htm

Saudi arabia is the muslim holy city, please dont take one exception and blame it on the rest. I dont want to show figures of religious freedom in islamic nations but what I can tell is, there is freedom baby!! I have given some examples of this previously when i was answering your other reply,


I apologize, if any of my statements were offensive to anyone, I meant no harm in anyway, and all of this was my opinion as a muslim. Thank you.

Kind regards,
Shia

 

[Colpy]

Guess what..we would proove them wrong if what they say wasnt true. But they are right, when a country is being oppressed by a stronger power, what should the world do? Let it go? Most of the time, that is how it goes, they react either too late, or they drag along this whole "peace" allegations until a mass genocide has already occured!!

Oh, baloney!

You have Arab clerics issuing fatwas delaring Jewish babies as future Israeli soldiers so idiots with explosive belts can kill them with religious impunity.........and expect their reward as martyrs. When Israel withdraws from Gaza......with plans for large scale withdrawals from the West Bank, the areas they leave become instant staging spots for attacks on Israel. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon, they left it to Hezbollah, who want to kill all Jews..............

Example: bosnia

How come other christans dont resolve this...I see muslims defending the country..why is it that Mr. Bush keeps on supporting Israel. If they want to resolve the iran issue, they will definately have to resolve the palestinian issue first. It will show the iranians, that they meant well for the muslims. :thumbup:

The USA and hopefully Canada will continue to support Israel because it is a liberal democracy afloat in a sea, surrounded by religious lunatics, or power-mad fascist dictators. Israel is the only one deserving of support.........or those nations at peace with Israel.

Freedom of conscience? Perhaps one should first look in the mirror, before making such judgement. Mr. Bush decision to go to war against iraq went against the majority's of the american people's will,but he still went on. I thought america was the land of freedom, if the president go against the people's will, what freedom are they talking about then.. :| Muslim countries have more freedom than that, with only a few exceptions, but you cant say they dont have freedom, thats their own will to stay under an anarchy rules. There is no point in enforcing "freedom". I believe alot of developed muslim countries have freedom of religion, e.g Pakistan, indonesia, turkie, etc.

At the time of the invasion, most people believed, with good reason, Saddam had WMDs. Most people, I believe, supported the move on the grounds of that mistaken perception. If you have a source that says otherwise, I'd like to see it.

WHICH MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE FREE? A list, please. Shouldn't be too difficult.

um so who ever is fighting for their faith, belief is considered to be a terrorist? hmm was it blair or mr. bush who said that God told him to go to war against iraq? ohh and Also Israel is fighting palestinain for their land that was given to them by God, so we all are fighting for somewhat our beliefs'... are we all terrorists then?...btw that is exactly the problem, when a muslim person robs a liquor store, they have headlines all accross cnn, on international media that a "Muslim robbed a liquor store!" infact there are so many other people that steal those stores all the time and they never put that as news headings. Bias'd media!

Terrorism can be defined as an attack centered on civilians with no military objective present.

Saudi arabia is the muslim holy city, please dont take one exception and blame it on the rest. I dont want to show figures of religious freedom in islamic nations but what I can tell is, there is freedom baby!! I have given some examples of this previously when i was answering your other reply,

Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia are the holy cities........WHERE IS THERE FREEDOM OF THOUGHT RELIGION AND SPEECH IN THE MUSLIM WORLD? WHERE?

A very short list.

I apologize, if any of my statements were offensive to anyone, I meant no harm in anyway, and all of this was my opinion as a muslim. Thank you

No offense taken here.............

 

[Sassylassie]

As long as we have dialog Shia I have hope, not for the extremist but with moderate Muslims in the East because it's to late for the ME and Asia and the Horn of Africa, Europe, the Extremist control the reigning Governments or will once they are done slaughtering Africian Muslims, Christians and Buddist world wide and all the while the Extremist are using Immigrants to push for sweaping changes in Democratic countries for "More" rights for Muslim than those who ancestors' founded that country. It's going to be an ugly and bloody ride. Will we be ready?

 

[Dixie Cup]

I agree sassy; religion/religious beliefs need to be taken out of politics on all sides but that isn't going to happen in the ME and other places because they believe that religion is politics. How does anyone reconcile that?? I don't know about you but that scares the %$#$%@ out of me.

As Canadians we will have to be VERY careful about giving so called "rights" to religious minorities (not unlike Shria law (sp??). It has no place in our country. Our laws need to be applied to everyone equally no matter what cultural or religious background period.

Just my opinion...

 

[gopher]

the Holy Land is for the Christians


Not necessarily according to the New Testament: it belongs to all 12 Abrahamic tribes and to all who proclaim Jesus as Saviour -- that includes Muslims according to Koran, Sura 4, Line 168 {Jones translation}.

See Galatians 3:29.

 

[CDNBear]

Saw these questions on the net. Just 5 questions by no referenced source. However the questions are valid enough.

Seeing as Shia, our own self proclaimed Muslim, just deflected and danced around answering these question. Much to my dissappointment, I was hoping to see something akin, to what I have heard from the Muslims I associate with on regular basis. But no, just more propoganda and garbage bias.

(1) Why are you so quiet?

a) Some are not, they just aren't heard.
b) Some can not be bothered.
c) Some silently support the stupidity.
d) Others justafy it, like shia and some of those asshats that hang around here.

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

That's easy, they have not followed the teachings of their faith, as dictated by a maniac, following his own vision of Islam/Christianity.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

This is simple, if you try to rule a country with the laws of a Religious prophet writen thousands of years ago, you will run into trouble at the get go. Not everyone wants to be so pios, but the clerics could care less. Their interpretation is the law, See the problem?

The reason, there is only one, that is free, is because, only one has seen fit to water down the rhetoric, use balance and forethought to govern, not antiqueted teachings and suggestions.

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

I'll have to argue that, as they do commit a fair many, they are hardly the leaders. I'll leave that title to the US. But their actions are committed out of the thoughts planted in their heads by those that would see the world rid of Jews and the total convertion of man to Islam. The suicide bomber, is the strongest believer of the most corrupt of the teachings.

Oddly enough, we always see the student pull the string, push the button on themselves, never the most pois teachers of this twisted version of Islam.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

Because the version of Islam that rules the country is twisted, perverted and interpretted by man, to fulfil his vision of Islam, not of the Quran. If the Bible were followed and interpretted in the same way. The cries of "Praise Jesus" would ring before the survivors ears do.

 

[Sassylassie]

Bear has nailed the problem with Extreme Islam, interpreting the Koran in the Literal sense ergo using 17th century idiology in the 21st century. The Koran reminds me of a 17th century "War and Battle" instruction manual.

The five questions: I'll answer them with my opinion.
Here are five of them:

(1) Why are you so quiet?

A. They are quiet in a Free democratic country because they spend most of their time trying to re-enact the Country they left all the while finding offence with their "Adopted" countries "Culture" a sense of entitlement and the belief that being a Muslim garners more rights than other religions or cultures. The only issues that effects Muslims are issue about Islam, the coutry that adopted them isn't really their country it's a place to live and worship Islam. No loyality to the free country they live in.

.
(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

Well that is an easy question to answer, Christians have evolved and grown away from Tribal laws, we've become civilized. Islamic Palestinians have a tribal culture that inflicts unfair laws, policies and brutality on their women and children. You might find the odd Fundy Christian ranting but rarely do they feel compelled to kill innocents in the name of Jesus Christ.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

The nature of Islam is to be led blindly and not to question the Imams who hold all the power, Muslims fear freedom and frankly don't seem able to understand the concept of "Freedom" and "Democracy". They'd rather be controled by the fanatics world wide, until they educate themselves with literature that isn't the Koran they will remain enslaved by their leaders or Islamic fanatics.

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

The Koran is a violent book, it preaches violence against non-Muslims, Jews-Christians, Hindu etc. It preaches violence against women and children the only people spared in the Koran are Adult Males. There is no act to vile that isn't covered in the Koran, it allows them to commit vile attrocious acts
such as genocide and they need not feel any remorse because Allah "Wills it".

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

Because the Koran tells them to. I find it rather ironic that a Muslim can come to Canada and build a great life and when they feel their rights are violated they have numerous laws to protect them and their Religion but a Christian has no rights in any Islamic Country. So why do Muslims expect to be pandered to and appeased by their adopted country. Why the superiority complex? Perhaps because they are tought from childhood that there is a sense of entitlement for Muslims ergo the Koran?

 

[jimmoyer]

5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

I am sure by this question they are talking about IRAN... and why it is so anti-jewish. Well come to think of it, look what has been happening to palestine for the past god knows how many years. The palestinian's one suicide bomber who apparantly dies off and takes how much, 8 or 10 people with him? ... and compared that to Israel's aircrafts... and its latest missiles... who is also being supported by America.. !! who do you think is standing up for palestinians? ... none of the other muslim countries are helping...none of the non-muslim countries feel their pain.. ! when iran took a stand... all of a sudden people are raising eye-brows!!

---------------------------------------------Shia-------------------------------------------------------------------

Shia and Sunni and Americans might all share a huge ignorance of each other.

You forgot about many prohibitions most Muslim countries enact against followers
of other religions. Cairo, Egypt, for example prohibits the building of any new Christian
churches. It will allow you to extend a current building, but no new buildings. Not one western
world country has such a prohibition. Read about your muslim countries and read about
what they allow and do not allow and compare the same to the western world.

 

[tracy]

There is diversity in Islam, just like there is diversity in Christianity.

 

[CDNBear]

There is diversity in Islam, just like there is diversity in Christianity.

Some proof please?

 

[jimmoyer]

i THINK THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE NOT AWARE OF THE PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS IN MUSLIM COUNTRES. IN EGYPT MANY COPTIC CHRISTIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY MUSLIM MURDERERS AND THEY ARE TREATED AS 3RD CLASS CITIZENS.

IN SAUDI ARABIA IT IS A CRIME TO EVEN BRING A BIBLE INTO THE COUNTRY MUCH LESS BUILD A CHURCH.

IN JORDAN NO CHURCHES CAN BE BUILT AND CHRISTIANS ARE PERSECUTED.

IN PAKISTAN THE FEW CHRISTIANS THAT EXIST HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING IN HIDING. MANY TIMES THEY HAVE BEEN HUNTED DOWN AND KILLED JUST FOR BEING CHRISTIAN.

AND YET MANY MUSLIMS MOVE TO THE WEST AND THEY EXPECT, NO THEY DEMAND THAT THEY BE ALLOWED TO BUILD MOSQUES AND CONVERT PEOPLE TO ISlam
---------------------------------from another forum-----------------------------------------------------------

This is diversity ??

And what is this hallowed concept of diversity ???

 

[Sassylassie]

Some proof please?

I was thinking the same thing Bear, every Islamic country I read articles on have the same mantra Praise Allah repress the Christians, Buddist, etc. The articles and reports coming out of Thailand are frightening, Muslims slaughtering Buddist of all people. Here's an interesting article:

Happy Hajj! You’re Not Invited!

​

By Patrick Poole

FrontPageMagazine.com | December 25, 2006

As Jews began their Hanukkah celebrations this week, commemorating the recovery of the Holy Land and the Temple from foreign invaders by Judas Maccabeus, and more than a billion Christians prepare for one of the holiest days of the church year, where the doors of Christian churches will be thrown open to anyone willing to hear the good news of Christ’s coming to earth as a human to redeem humanity, millions of Muslims are preparing for their own spiritual journey next week in the annual trek to Mecca to perform the Hajj.

But quite unlike the Jewish and Christian religious celebrations of Hanukkah and Christmas, if you are a non-Muslim, don’t plan on investigating the mysteries of Islam by joining your Muslim friends on their trip to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj – you’re not invited.

Perhaps no better contrast between Judaism, Christianity and Islam exists than the treatment of non-believers on the respective holy days of each religion. I recall fondly the many times that I have participated in the Passover seder at the invitation of Jewish friends and have each time been awed at the profound meaning attached to every element of the seder which is designed to illustrate the fascinating historical narrative of the Jewish people over the millennia that is the foundation of both the Christian and Islamic faiths.

I also remember the occasion several years ago when a Chinese friend of mine who was finishing his PhD at Ohio State joined my family and me for our Christmas Eve celebrations. After joining us for worship, he told us with tears in his eyes how that was the first time that he had ever heard the gospel message that Jesus Christ had come into the world to save sinners – a message that had been branded as counter-revolutionary and been outlawed in his own country. Needless to say, we were delighted when he joined us again the following year for Christmas Eve, where he was anxious to tell anyone at church who would listen how he had embraced the free offer of the gospel and become a Christian the previous year. Having returned home to China, my friend is now a leader in the underground Church there.

But if I wanted to join my Muslim friends next week on the Hajj, I would have to bear in mind that my reception would not be as friendly. I would be forbidden to bring my Bible or any Christian literature with me on my trip to Saudi Arabia, and be required to remove anything identifiably Christian from my person (crosses, etc.). There are no Christian churches allowed in the “Land of the Two Mosques”, so there would be no opportunity for me to join with fellow Christians there in our weekly celebration of the Lord’s Day, and I would constantly be under watch by the Wahhabi Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice police to ensure that I didn’t share my Christian faith with anyone else.

Even having arrived in Saudi Arabia and complying with the absolute ban of any expression of my faith, as I approached the holy city of Mecca, I would be denied entry. Despite all of the supposed Quranic endorsements of the “People of the Book” (i.e. Jews and Christians), as a kafir, my presence is not welcome at the Hajj. We should remember that the cardinal offense that prompted Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda lackeys to declare war on the “Crusaders and Zionists” in 1996 was the presence of American troops in the Arabian Peninsula, though nowhere near the sacred cities of Mecca or Medina.

For Muslims in the West, they have as much freedom as any other to practice their faith openly and freely without any fear of being molested. The number of mosques popping up all over America is a testament to that freedom.

Such is not the case for Jews and Christians in Islamic lands, however, where people of those faiths are subject to countless acts of intimidation and violence on a daily basis. Even in their synagogues and sanctuaries, believers are not immune from attack. In fact, many are prevented from approaching their own holy sites. In the Holy Land, Muslims occupy the Temple Mount – the historic location of the ancient Jewish Temple – and Jewish worshippers are subject to regular assaults by stone-throwing Muslim crowds at the nearby Wailing Wall and other sacred sites. And it was the mere presence of a Jew – Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – near the Temple Mount in September 2000 that sparked the second intifada that has claimed the lives of hundreds of Jews, Christians and Muslims in recent years. Jews have also been forbidden from visiting the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron – Judaism’s second-most holy site – since it was converted to a mosque in 1266.

And earlier this month Turkish authorities feared that Pope Benedict might take the opportunity while touring the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul – one of the greatest churches in the world that was seized by Muslims after 1,000 years of constant use by Christians – that he might actually try to pray there.

It isn’t just the Hagia Sophia that has suffered the inglorious fate of being converted from its original use as a Christian church to be taken over by invading Islamic forces and made into a mosque. In her book, The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam. From Jihad to Dhimmitude, Bat Ye’or chronicles how innumerable Christian and Jewish holy sites, such as the Church of St. John in Damascus that was demolished by the Islamic Caliph Abd al-Malik in 705 and had the Umayyad Mosque built over it, were taken over for the exclusive use for Islamic worship during the constant waves of Islamic conquest. It is worth noting that even the Kabaa, the central location of worship in Mecca, was seized by Mohammad from non-Muslims.

Getting back to my original point – one of the constant complaints of Muslim apologists is that Westerners just don’t understand Islam. Fair enough; but is that entirely the fault of non-Muslims who are shut out of Islam’s most important rituals? And might it be the case that those of us, Christians and Jews alike, who are angered at the treatment of our brethren in Islamic lands do so not because of our alleged “Islamophobia”, but rather on the basis of real grievances?

As former President Jimmy Carter travels the country promoting his book identifying Israel as an apartheid state because they refuse to capitulate to Palestinian terrorism, perhaps he might take some time and try to join his Wahhabi patrons during the Hajj this year and see what religious apartheid is really all about. While believers and non-believers alike will enjoy the Hanukkah and Christmas holidays, the invitation for Jews and Christians to join their Muslim friends and neighbors for the Hajj this year didn’t get lost in the holiday mail. It was never sent.
:brave: :sign6: :banghead: :dontknow:

 

[Zzarchov]

Isn't it a little odd to claim these problems are muslim issue?

For the Majority of this century were not the majority of christian nations "Not free" , under various nationalistic and socialist regimes?

If we call Turkey "not free" because its nationalistic..and a muslim nation because its majority muslim..should we not look to the recent past in Eastern Europe and Latin America for "not free" christian nations which spread death and destruction?

Seems a little silly this thread is all.

Like finishing your last beer at a bar, then vowing never to drink again and immediately stand up and critisize all the lousy drunks in the bar who are destroying their lives and the fabric of society.

 

[tracy]

Some proof please?

Just look around you. I have friends who are muslims. They are certainly capable of living in a democracy, they aren't looking to kill infidels, they aren't trying to introduce sharia law, they aren't wearing burquas, they don't repress Christians, the men aren't uneducated women beaters, the women aren't submissive victims. They live normal lives. They've never made me, the agnostic, feel unwelcome. I've been the recipient of such kindness from one particular family down here because they knew I had no family of my own nearby. When people talk about muslims all wanting to recreate their repressive homelands in America, I think of them and it doesn't fit.

If you're talking about a political or cultural scale, I don't see how you can't see the differences between Malaysia and Saudi Arabia or India (which has one of the world's largest muslim populations) and Turkey or Pakistan and Bangladesh. I see the same thing with Islam that we used to do with communism. If we have an enemy philosophy we tend to lump all followers together. In the 60s there was a notion that China was the same as Russia was the same as Cuba was the same as Czechoslovakia, etc. They weren't. It's no different with Islam. Shia and Sunni is the clearest difference. I don't see how that can be denied.

 

[Just the Facts]

Like finishing your last beer at a bar, then vowing never to drink again and immediately stand up and critisize all the lousy drunks in the bar who are destroying their lives and the fabric of society.

That's essentially social evolution right there. It's progress. And it happens all the time.

 

[CDNBear]

Just look around you. I have friends who are muslims. They are certainly capable of living in a democracy, they aren't looking to kill infidels, they aren't trying to introduce sharia law, they aren't wearing burquas, they don't repress Christians, the men aren't uneducated women beaters, the women aren't submissive victims. They live normal lives. They've never made me, the agnostic, feel unwelcome. I've been the recipient of such kindness from one particular family down here because they knew I had no family of my own nearby. When people talk about muslims all wanting to recreate their repressive homelands in America, I think of them and it doesn't fit.

If you're talking about a political or cultural scale, I don't see how you can't see the differences between Malaysia and Saudi Arabia or India (which has one of the world's largest muslim populations) and Turkey or Pakistan and Bangladesh. I see the same thing with Islam that we used to do with communism. If we have an enemy philosophy we tend to lump all followers together. In the 60s there was a notion that China was the same as Russia was the same as Cuba was the same as Czechoslovakia, etc. They weren't. It's no different with Islam. Shia and Sunni is the clearest difference. I don't see how that can be denied.

Actually, I probably should have said "Some clarification please".

I understand your views, we've discussed them before, and I believe I even defended them at one point from attack by another rather zealous member, and I agree with you for the most part.

I have a Muslim Sri Lankan associate(I hate the word employee). He wished me Merry Christmas, yet does not celebrate it. That is not only divirsity, it is class and respect. I gave him a Christmas bonus, equal to those that have been with me since I could not afford to give them, because he has contributed greatly to my work force. Now that I finished patting myself on the back.

There is very little divirsity in his native country, hence his presence here. He is the first to say, "It's their way or the highway to heaven". This is coming from a Muslim. That's a pretty damning statement, under the surcomstances, don't you think?

Here in the West, yes the Muslims and Islamic community is pretty diverse, but it is not without its draw backs, or throw backs to a cultural dispossion to spread faith by violence.

That's essentially social evolution right there. It's progress. And it happens all the time.

And it is repugnantly hypocritical. In either case.

 

[Shia]

Oh, baloney!

You have Arab clerics issuing fatwas delaring Jewish babies as future Israeli soldiers so idiots with explosive belts can kill them with religious impunity.........and expect their reward as martyrs. When Israel withdraws from Gaza......with plans for large scale withdrawals from the West Bank, the areas they leave become instant staging spots for attacks on Israel. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon, they left it to Hezbollah, who want to kill all Jews..............

MY man.. The videos you see of these little kids strap with bombs with some guy (usually their father)...they just show that, cause even though palestinians' dont have an army, they are still proud of their kids, and hope someday their kids can defend the country as well...unlike in israel. They usually train teenagers which is compulsary. I dont need to give you proof for that, cause my jewish girl friend told me about this, and one of my jewish friend went back to do this army training!! I dont think there is any excuse israel can provide to justify destroying a hospital, or people's home or even shooting at kids that only defend themselves with rocks!! ?? Maybe you should step in the shoes of your enemy and think about this.. why would someone want to sucide...its not as easy as it sounds..! :| Trust me...people dont do this just because they are "lunatics"... when their basic human needs are not being met' how do you expect them to live on!! anyhow..I am not saying Isreal shouldnt defend itself...it has all the right to do so.. but considering their own strength, they should show some compasion atleast for the young ones..!!

The USA and hopefully Canada will continue to support Israel because it is a liberal democracy afloat in a sea, surrounded by religious lunatics, or power-mad fascist dictators. Israel is the only one deserving of support.........or those nations at peace with Israel.

Ohh yes because of westbank and gaza attack on isreal...it has heavy casualties that need the help of United states?? and support from the rest.. Let me be clear, isreal is not the one who is defending right now. (or when they were fighting, it wasnt the one defending) So if there is anyone that needs support, its should be those "lunatics"!

At the time of the invasion, most people believed, with good reason, Saddam had WMDs. Most people, I believe, supported the move on the grounds of that mistaken perception. If you have a source that says otherwise, I'd like to see it.

WHICH MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE FREE? A list, please. Shouldn't be too difficult.

I cant provide you with an exact source for the first one, because it was done on cnn by one of these group debates where they shared figures for all of this!! It was however concluded that most people werent in favor of going to war in Iraq, but U.S government still went for it.

There are alot of muslim countries which are free or "democratic"! With only a few exceptions like iran or saudi arabia... The only reason they are different is because of their cultural values and the way things were good for them for generations, the people of the country dont want to be imposed by democratic rules!! (period)

Terrorism can be defined as an attack centered on civilians with no military objective present.

umm, they would have military objectives if palestinians' had a military! hamas is just non-funded organization that has no hierachy, which just consists of civilians.. there is no point in calling that a military.. you can call them a resistance force..or in Cnn terms "radical islamists" haha

Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia are the holy cities........WHERE IS THERE FREEDOM OF THOUGHT RELIGION AND SPEECH IN THE MUSLIM WORLD? WHERE?

A very short list.

umm, I can ask the same thing for vedican city and jerusalam... we all have our religious places where we only want just the believers... !! no religious freedom... but isnt that what we are entitled to!! ..

Most developing muslim nations have freedom of thinking, religion and speech!! Dont generalize it okay... and I cannot provide you with a list.. I can only give you a couple of examples..if you want to write an essay or report, I suggest you do the rest of the research yourself!!

Example: indonesia
Religion: Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country with Muslims accounting for 85% of the population and Christians accounting for 7.5%. The remaining population includes Hindus, Buddhists and animists. Despite the prevalence of the Muslim religion nationally, religion in Indonesia tends to be quite regionally based. It is possible to find areas of Christian majority, and Hinduism is the majority religion in Bali.

Example: India
Religions:

Hindu 80%,
Muslim 14%,
Christian 2.4%,
Sikh 2%,
Buddhist 0.7%,
Jains 0.5%,
other 0.4%​

Example: Pakistan

Census data indicates that 96% of the population are Muslims, of whom nearly 80% are Sunni Muslims and 19% are Shi'a Muslims. The remainder comprises of Christians, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Parsis, Ahmadis, Buddhists, and Animists (mainly the Kalasha of Chitral).

I can go on and search for all other 50 whatever muslim countries and share how many other religions the country consists off..and if it didnt have freedom of religion, those other minorities wouldnt be there!! Hope thats clear now.

No offense taken here.............

Good.. cause I was worried, I might have gone a bit far..!! just let me know when i cross the limit! :angel8: ill keep my mouth shut then.