17 shot, gunman dead at Northern Illinois University....

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
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6 people dead. 16 more injured. Another sad day in the U.S. It reflects the total disregard for human life that's permeating throughout the world. Our kids are messed up man. We've got to get them back on track.
JBeee: I expect Brittany to unload with a shotgun anyday.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Higher unemployment is what's causing school shootings?

Because I can't find work, I'm going to take my frustrations out on classmates at high school / university? It's their fault??

That makes no sense. It might have a part in their frustrations, but I'm pretty sure it's not the breaking point for most of these shooters. Heck many of the previous shooters had jobs, or were still in high school where a job isn't all that of a major importance.

Grady said it was unlikely authorities could have prevented Thursday's tragedy. "As much as we do, it's unlikely that anyone would ever have the ability to stop an incident like this from beginning," he said.

So we just shrug our shoulders and move on I guess.... nothing could have been done, nobody could have prevented this from happening or see any of the signs of it about to happen... so let's just forget it like the rest.

And once again, we'll have our little time to mourn the dead, watch people recount their memories of the incident, watch the memorials and all that hoopla, and then it's over again and forgotten..... until the next shooting.

Then people will go "OMG, such a tragic thing to occur... nobody saw it coming. We can't talk about finding a solution because this isn't the proper time to do so... people need their time to mourn."

Then everybody does their same damn thing of mourning and recounting their experiences, see the memorials and all that other crap..... and then it's brushed under the carpet again and forgotten about..... nothing new will change, no major studies into why these occur.... nothing.

Then another shooting.

Sorry, I just no longer have any sympathy for any of these situations anymore. I'm more-so angered about the fact that nobody seems to be taking any sort of actions to prevent these sort of things from happening in the future or at least reducing their occurances. And every year, even month now that these occur, it's the same crap over and over again.....

• Some dumbass who's frustrated with their lives and how they were treated get all dressed in black and grab some guns and go shooting at a school they were at.

• People are wounded and/or die from the shooter.

• The shooter usually kills himself after they are satisfied with how many they killed, or when they know the police are coming soon.

• It gets all over the news and people are shocked that it occured again. The media blabs the name of the shooter, show all his web postings, videos audio clips.... basically making them famous for what they did.

• Someone mentioned some level of gun control on the news and the police and politicians freak out and say "This isn't the time for politics and this sort of thing. We need to get the families time to mourn."

• Everybody forgets about it, or any other concept to understand or prevent, and it's brushed aside until the next time when some other dumbass gets the idea to go out with a bang because they hate their miserable pathetic lives and nobody will take the time to reach out to them before it's too late.

See you guys in a couple more months when the next one occurs.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Gopher, your statement linking high unemployment to tragedies like this is non-sense. Considering the killer was a student, a high unemployment rate is moot. Also, do high unemployment rates cause mental illness as well, since most of the suspects in cases like this have serious mental issue?
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Updates:



6th student dies after Illinois campus shooting
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/15/illinois-shooting.html

The death toll from the Northern Illinois University shooting rose to six students Friday, as investigators continue to scour the campus.

A coroner confirmed early Friday that a sixth student has died, taking the death toll to seven people, including the gunman who shot and killed himself.

Police have identified the gunman as 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak.

Police say they have found no motive for the shooting, which happened Thursday afternoon in a university lecture hall as students were attending an oceanography class.....

And:



Shooter in U.S. college massacre identified
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...214/illinois_follow_080215/20080215?hub=World

The gunman who killed six students at Northern Illinois University Thursday has been identified as 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak.

Kazmierczak, a former student at NIU, committed suicide following the rampage.

Kazmierczak, armed with a shotgun and two handguns, opened fire in a classroom filled with more than 100 students yesterday afternoon.......

.....Four victims have been identified as: Daniel Parmenter, 20, of Westchester; Catalina Garcia, 20, of Cicero; Ryanne Mace, 19, of Carpentersville; and Julianna Gehant, 32, of Meridan.

Two others died at hospitals in other counties.

"There are some critical injuries still at the hospital and we don't know... if they're going to improve," CNN's Sandra Endo told CTV's Canada AM on Friday.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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The ramifications of digging-into the antecedents to these kinds of tragedies is unsettling to the point of outright rejection by the societies involved. People don't want to consider that the pursuit of money power and fame is the source behind the dehumanization of the individual that allows this psychosis to expand and spread. Personal responsibility has become anathema to postmodern societies. Hopelessness is the product of generated fear coupled with the mountain of evidence that demonstrates that social structures (government, police etc.) are rife with corruption and deflection of any and all responsibility for the climate created. There is a systemic root to these incidents and that systemic foundation is what nearly everyone wants and chooses to ignore.

I've been accused of harbouring a bleak, doom and gloom outlook on life.... Show me how all the hand wringing and breast beating has changed anything!

We are seeing an increase in these kinds of tragedies becasue the moral and ethical fabric of our societies is in tatters. A preference for the mundane the banal the unimportant and obscure is the drug that modern societies prefer. Don't look at the technocratization of society...where every child has a Blackberry or a cell phone...where "reality" is what our children watch on TV and at the movies....don't seek answers and consequences when our social structures are revealed as corrupt and mismanaged...just bury your head in the sand and deny it all.....

And the slaughters will continue to roll along...
 

tehowe

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Feb 8, 2008
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My damned responses keep disappearing! Is it because they contain links?

Anyways, I wonder if this gunman will also turn out to have been on SRI-spectrum drugs... POaxil, Prozac, etc.?

Suicides and Homicides in Patients Taking Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft
www.medicationsense.com/articles/oct_dec_03/suicides_homicides.html
 

tehowe

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Feb 8, 2008
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My damned responses keep disappearing! Is it because they contain links?

Anyways, I wonder if this gunman will also turn out to have been on SRI-spectrum drugs... POaxil, Prozac, etc.?

Suicides and Homicides in Patients Taking Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft
www.medicationsense.com/articles/oct_dec_03/suicides_homicides.html
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Well DB's got it down.

WTF can't those in power get a clue? Oh yeah.... because of what DB just said. Never mind.

Then what follows is the solution. Which of course isn't an easy one, as it requires some detailed study into these situations. But one main thing is the solution must be majority-social in it's effect, not authoritive.

Things need to change inside schools. How the teachers treat the students, what is permitted within the schools when it comes to bullying, isolationalism, factions amongst students.

Teachers and other employees of the school must learn how to notice these things, know when kids are pulling away. Sure, people will say they're teachers, not therapists.... but their very job is a slight bit therapy and work with the mind.... they're teaching. They're Teachers. It's an important position, and while the government may not pay teachers enough to actually care in the US, or elsewhere, their position is right up there with parenting for most of the day.

Start treating the students and teachers themselves as human beings, bring some friggin socializing back between the two. The teachers need to give a damn, and they need to appear as though when there is a problem, they are open for talking about it and getting help.

And the students need to learn that what they go through in life isn't just isolated to themselves, but that doesn't trivialize what they are going through. They have to have people around them who actually care about their problems and willing to help them with their problems, rather then unloading medications and Px's at them, telling them something is wrong with them, not others.

Of course all these shooters had mental illnesses.... apparently by todays' standards, we all have mental illnesses. Heck.... they got a pill out there for just about anything somone like a parent or teach just can't be bothered to deal with.

And there's another big problem right there ^ not dealing with the problems and just masking them will pills.

Why? Because it's easier and someone gets a load of profit from it. But they cause more problems then they solve, because everybody is taking Px's for granted.

Now today apparently Depression is a disease... when in the past, it ment something in life was pissing you off and you needed to fix it. Now nothing in life is wrong, except yourself.... you're supposed to accept how life is and the reason why you don't enjoy it, is because you have a disease in your head.

So you take all these pills to make you think you're happy, when after about a year on anti-depressants, you realize you're still not happy, all those problems are still around you, nothing has changed, except now you got pills that make you forget about the problems. They continue to get worse, and so do you.

In the end, you eventually stop taking the drugs (rather then work yourself off them) then the side effects occur, you get major headaches, migraines, you can't sleep at night anymore.... then your thinking begins to get a little wonky.....

....You then become further depressed that you can only seem to have a normal life with pills. The kids in school are still the same pile of arse puckers they always were, you're life is now even worse then before because of the medications, and you already know that your parents and doctors won't listen to you, and would only give you a different medication to try, besides the one you're on now.

You then become jellious of other's whom seem to have the perfect life, you begin to hate the idiots who treat you like hell in school, those who always ignored you, while you had feelings for them..... and after a few years......

You blow up and decide to take everyone with you.

Yeah, there's a mental condition involved in many of these shootings, but it's being diagnosed all wrong.

Why? Because the pharmaceutical companies would lose out on all that money..... and besides, they gotta keep the image up that they were the good guys giving them these drugs.... because they had a disease.

Nobody had these friggin diseases back in the 50's, 60's and the like.... nobody was going around like a hobby, shooting everybody in the schools they went to (In the 60's they had the National Guard to do that)
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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He wasn't a very good shot was he? I think the candlelight vigels are just maudlin sentimental crap, like the sick little shrines of teddy bears and ribbons for this ribbons for that, who cares what these people do to each other. To keep my interest they've got to get those numbers up. Reality TV sucks big time. Cheaper weapons at Wal-Mart would be double plus good free ammo at the laundro-mato, fast food and crack, heroine for toddlers, ritlin all arround. HAHA senceless carnage inflicts gluttonous culture, I love it. I hope Britney Spheres offs herself before we have another dull story about her dull life.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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It's the "formula" Beve. We'll memorialize the inhumanity that plagues our societies and happily turn the channel to watch something that's not quite as unsettling as reality. I suppose we could all kneel down and pray...that's worked miracles in the past....NOT

We could pretend that the evil Moslems are responsible....they're messages of hate have infected our children....popular in the McCain campaign....

Anything that deflects introspection and critical evaluation and provides a distant "enemy" that we can all blame....

Who knows it might be those children and women working in sweatshops for the GAP and Victoria's Secret or Old Navy....who've forced this hopelessness across the waves and into the hearts and minds of our children...surely it isn't possible that our children are failing to come to grips with how deceitful and hypocritical our societies actually are....
 

tehowe

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Feb 8, 2008
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SOB...

The gunman, who was identified as 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak, had recently stopped taking medication.

"He had become somewhat erratic in the past two weeks," said NIU police Chief Donald Grady during a news conference in DeKalb, Ill. He declined to say what the medication was for.

I have a pretty good idea...

Suicides and Homicides in Patients Taking Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/oct_dec_03/suicides_homicides.html
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
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MikeDB: couldn't agree with you more. You point out the root of the problem. Now do you have any suggestions on how to fix the problem.
Here's one. Instead of posting image after image of war and destruction on the TV sets, how about the media heads counterbalance these images with some positive ones. I dunno...a story on how the troops are rebuilding the schools in Afghanistan perhaps. A farmer who had a bumper year. A group of volunteers who are helping the poor in Central America. And give these positive stories equal time.
And yeah Praxius, let's get the teachers more involved with these kids. It's not easy though. A lot of teachers feel threatened by these aggressive students. I have a friend who teaches high school in a largely immigrant part of town and he's been harrassed many times. A lot of the problems in his school stem from old beliefs and behaviours that are brought here from other countries. He has a heck of a time teaching due to the strong muslim group who have no qualms voicing their opinions about our 'weak western society'. And he's trying to teach them civics and law!! Good luck.
 

tehowe

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The media is reporting that the guy went off his meds. Time to take a look at Big Pharma and the suicide risks that SSRI medications hold... like Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3374287.ece
http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/oct_dec_03/suicides_homicides.html
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/ssri_side_effects.htm

Additionally, the governor has declared a 'state of emergency', which is interesting.
http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=3&RecNum=6609
 

tehowe

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Feb 8, 2008
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Either this thread is being censored, or there are serious problems with the engine. I'm trying to post a response, and it keeps getting deleted.
 

tehowe

New Member
Feb 8, 2008
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The media is reporting that the guy went off his meds. Time to take a look at Big Pharma and the suicide risks that SSRI medications hold... like Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3374287.ece
http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/oct_dec_03/suicides_homicides.html
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/ssri_side_effects.htm

Additionally, the governor has declared a 'state of emergency', which is interesting.
http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=3&RecNum=6609