$1.70 a litre in BC

[JLM]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

I think the sensible approach is first of all to figure out a better alternative to burning fossil fuels. As far as I can see no one has come up with that yet. While wind may supplement it, it certainly replace it. Electricity is just as bad as far as I can tell …………...how much more land and waterways can we afford to sacrifice? Waves like wind may supplement it, but the benefit to Manitoba or Minnesota is rather limited. How many people are ready to accept nuclear? Are we really prepared or in a financial position to relegate all petroleum driven assets to the scrap pile? The main problem with carbon tax is it punishes and puts an unreasonable onus on the poor.

 

[spilledthebeer]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

OH NICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What a Danger you are to common sense and logic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If LIE-berals wanted to BE HONEST about their carbon crap and trade tax SCAM............................................


then why not ELIMINATE our income taxes.......................................


and RELY SOLELY on carbon crap revenue????????????????????????????????


LIE-berals are SILENT ON such questions?????????????????



Carbon crap SCAM is nothing but a gravy grab!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Johnnny]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

I mean if the US, China, India, Brazil etc won't do the right thing then the sensible thing is go after the tax payers of Canada to pick up the world's tab.

Science or no science forget it.

 

[Twin_Moose]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

So to appease the cult of Climatology we either starve the poor or tag inflation to the price of Carbon? Making the middle class the new poor (we are close now) and the current poor extinct because they wouldn't even be able to afford to shop at the dumpster for food. It has a chance to work in the Urban centers, it will never work in the Rural areas unless a new source of energy is discovered. Here's an idea just charge the Carbon tax in the cities where many alternatives are available for transportation, and leave the rest of us the phuck alone we have no choice but to travel for everything, and putting crops in the ground for the world to eat.

 

[JLM]

So to appease the cult of Climatology we either starve the poor or tag inflation to the price of Carbon? Making the middle class the new poor (we are close now) and the current poor extinct because they wouldn't even be able to afford to shop at the dumpster for food. It has a chance to work in the Urban centers, it will never work in the Rural areas unless a new source of energy is discovered. Here's an idea just charge the Carbon tax in the cities where many alternatives are available for transportation, and leave the rest of us the phuck alone we have no choice but to travel for everything, and putting crops in the ground for the world to eat.

You might be flogging a "dead horse" there. I predict two things almost with certainty. The automobile and transportation in general as we know it is going to prevail for the next 100 years and secondly Mother Nature is going to step in and balance things up so we can forget about a lot of shit that's been worrying us crazy. Meanwhile it wouldn't hurt if we directed some of our efforts to cleaning up garbage.

 

[petros]

So to appease the cult of Climatology we either starve the poor or tag inflation to the price of Carbon? Making the middle class the new poor (we are close now) and the current poor extinct because they wouldn't even be able to afford to shop at the dumpster for food. It has a chance to work in the Urban centers, it will never work in the Rural areas unless a new source of energy is discovered. Here's an idea just charge the Carbon tax in the cities where many alternatives are available for transportation, and leave the rest of us the phuck alone we have no choice but to travel for everything, and putting crops in the ground for the world to eat.

Inflation is a tax on your savings.

 

[taxslave]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

And what cost would that be? And while we are on the subject of cost how does sending our tax $$$ to other countries cut polution in Canada? And the not insignificant fact that we buy much stuff made where there are fewer environmental laws and low wages so how exactly does that cut polution?

 

[Hoid]

How does reducing pollution cut pollution.

Well let me see...

 

[JLM]

For those who haven't figured it out yet, that's the plan. The whole purpose of carbon taxing is to get people in general to connect the dots between burning fossil fuels and "cost" to the environment. Taking the route through our wallets appears to be the best way to drive that message home, as years of science and reason has fallen on deaf ears.

Let me see if I have this right. You want to punish us for petroleum use but the people who burn electricity get a free ride! HTF does that work? The damage either way is pretty much equal. With electricity the cost is fish, land and wildlife...………….how is that any better than carbon deposits? Can we afford to forfeit more real estate and water systems?

 

[Curious Cdn]

Let me see if I have this right. You want to punish us for petroleum use but the people who burn electricity get a free ride! HTF does that work? The damage either way is pretty much equal. With electricity the cost is fish, land and wildlife...………….how is that any better than carbon deposits? Can we afford to forfeit more real estate and water systems?

There is another way ...

http://www.opg.com/powering-ontario/our-generation/nuclear/darlington-nuclear/

 

[taxslave]

There is another way ...
http://www.opg.com/powering-ontario/our-generation/nuclear/darlington-nuclear/

That is what we find so often behind the anti fosil fuels propaganda. Another pais shill for nuclear power.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Well it does benefit us here in Sask. with all our Uranium reserves But isn't the problem disposing of radioactive waste why the world started turning away from Nuclear reactors?

 

[JLM]

There is another way ...

http://www.opg.com/powering-ontario/our-generation/nuclear/darlington-nuclear/

THAT, I can go along with, but I'm not sure that everyone else will. Chernoybl and Three Mile Island has some a little "gun shy".

 

[spilledthebeer]

I mean if the US, China, India, Brazil etc won't do the right thing then the sensible thing is go after the tax payers of Canada to pick up the world's tab.

Science or no science forget it.

OH JOHNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOU ARE MISSING THE LIE-beral point here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The average Cdn family pays fifty percent of its income in taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AND IT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WE NEED ANOTHER SIXTEEN BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR just to keep paying the INTEREST on the Wynne-bag 2018 deficit!!


WE NEED ANOTHER TWENTY BILLION just to keep paying the interest on the deficit of Our idiot Boy Justin and his loser LIE-berals ran up in 2018!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NEED ANOTHER TWENTY BILLION to cover what the idiot Boy is spending in 2019!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NEED ANOTHER FIFTY TWO BILLION just to cover the deficits the idiot Boy ran up in 2016 and 2017!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And our LIE-berals and civil service union HOGS are lining up to GO TO WAR WITH FORD AND SCHEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ford has demanded that Ontari-owe municipalities.................and ESPECIALLY TORONTO............................


DEAL WITH a reduction in provincial transfer funding of 1 - 2 percent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOTE- that the Ford mandated cut DOES NOT AFFECT the full city budget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It ONLY affects that portion of city budget connected to provincial transfers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yet HOGS are going to war over the existential THREAT to their ENTITLEMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1



EVEN MORE ABSURD is the need to recognize that the Ford cuts REALLY ONLY AFFECT the ability of municipalities to RUBBER



STAMP the PAY RAISE THEY PLANNED to give their civil service union HOGS later this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Over SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of our govt budget is given to HOGS in the form of pay raises and solid GOLD PENSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The LIE-beral LIARS ARE TRYING TO CLAIM FORD IS ATTACKING BASIC SERVICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ford is merely neutralizing the GREED of HOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


by limiting the ability of DEAD BROKE municipalities to rubber stamp UN-AFFORDABLE PAY RAISE FOR HOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A reduction of one percent of the provincial transfer represents a SMALL PORTION of the new funds that HOGS expect to get from shameless LIE-berals in the next contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yet HOGS ARE GOING BERSERK that anybody should DARE to touch their GRAVY in any way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If LIE-berals were telling the TRUTH adn cealing HONESTLY with the public.....................................


their act would involve VERY SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTIONS in income tax, in sales tax, in corporate tax etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AND THEN HIT US with carbon tax crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The LIE-beral carbon crap and trade tax SCAM is merely the LATEST RAID on our pocket books by BANKRUPT LIE-berals who



have NO INTENTION OF EVER ABANDONING THEIR HOG ALLIES or the grossly GREEDY gravy train that is the cause of so much



of our trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



DO NOT LOOK for common sense or logic from our LIE-beral overlords!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EXPECT ONLY GREED AND Fake News about our "booming economy"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nick Danger]

Let me see if I have this right. You want to punish us for petroleum use but the people who burn electricity get a free ride! HTF does that work? The damage either way is pretty much equal. With electricity the cost is fish, land and wildlife...………….how is that any better than carbon deposits? Can we afford to forfeit more real estate and water systems?

I'm not out to "punish" anyone, but I am realistic enough to see that what is coming is in part a result of our reluctance to deal with the problem effectively in the past decades. As a society we are pretty good at turning a blind eye to the hard decisions. Calling changing weather patterns "part of a natural cycle" is just another way of hoping the problem will go away on its own. Pointing out that there are risks and consequences to energy sources other than the burning of fossil fuels is distraction, refusing to face the damage that burning fossil fuels is wreaking on us as we speak.


The days of burning fossil fuels for energy are numbered, make no mistake. The science is indisputable, the cost of climate change is manifesting itself in ways we were told was coming years ago but chose to ignore because it just wasn't convenient to take steps to change things.



Hydro-electric power does require a "re-purposing" of large areas of land, but it is a highly localized cost, it's up to us to decide if we want to see that as a cost or an investment. The burning of fossil fuels being as widespread as it is, is changing our environmental balance on a global scale. They told us fifty years ago we were f**king up the planet and we lit a cigarette and laughed it off, calling them alarmists and sensationalists. Well guess what, it's here now. Electing right wing governments to pander to big business and push environmental progress on to the back burner once again is only postponing the work that needs to be done, making it more expensive, invasive, and potentially futile.

 

[Twin_Moose]

So you are another one from the cult of Climatology that thinks that you can control the weather thus the climate OK carry on Lol

 

[spilledthebeer]

That is what we find so often behind the anti fosil fuels propaganda. Another pais shill for nuclear power.

Oh if only the URANIUM LOBBY was the only one to deal with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us not forget the MASSIVE EFFORTS in support of electric TOY cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The ones that LIE-berals are DESPERATELY HOPING to FORCE US into USING in hope of making a KILLING by selling us electricity!!!!!!!!!!


Think of all the HOGS who own shares in green energy generators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Think of all the Brothers in the electrical union who will get paid GOOD MONEY to install and ,maintain all those TOY CAR chargers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And think of the LIE-beral ability to REGULATE traffic jams merely by tinkering with electric chargers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The latest news from Tesla is that their super fast chargers in popular areas in United States have just been LIMITED TO EIGHTY



PERCENT BATTERY CHARGE in order to reduce waiting times for access to the chargers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The chargers have a setting that gauges YOUR ROUTE AND DESTINATION........................................


and makes alterations to HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY you are ALLOWED TO GET- no more than eighty percent at "peak times"!!!!!!!!


And does this not sound JUST LIKE Wynne-bag LIE-berals with their price GOUGING over "on peak and off peak" electricity charges??????????????????


So a number of the Tesla chargers have been altered so that if you are only driving home you will get enough electricity - up to that 80 percent battery charge.........................................


to GET YOU HOME to your own personal charger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOU DO have one dont you????????????????????


You DID PAY the electrical union to come to your home and install the charger??????????????????


Why should you FREELOAD off chargers installed by Tesla????????????????


Just because you bought their COSTLY SHORT RANGE and AWKWARD TO REFUEL PRODUCT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In a nice little nod to the ugly reality of CRAPPY range for their cars................................


the Tesla chargers STILL ALLOW for FULL recharging if you are traveling between cities and NEED a FULL CHARGE to get to the next Tesla charger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But what if you live in rental housing as HALF OUR POPULATION DOES?????????????????


if govt or business starts LIMITING ACCESS to chargers for "reasons of efficiency" - then how are renters supposed to get quick and easy access to public chargers???????????????????


And the answer to renters getting quick access to chargers????????????????????


Its a SECRET that involves the phrase "SCREW THEM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals want TWO things................................................


first they want to FORCE US to use public transit so the system will be more profitable and thus able to supply MORE GRAVY TO HOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And second- LIE-berals want to reduce gridlock so THEY can travel more easily to public functions and how better than to make it DIFFICULT for ordinary people to drive..........................


by the simple expedient of manipulating access to chargers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In Toronto we know that LIE-berals have installed chargers in various places were senior level HOGS are likely to park for the day - such as under the Manulife Building and around City Hall!!!!!!!


LIE-berlas HAVE NOT YET dared to install chargers at the LCBO or at the work places of municipal HOGS.................................


but that day is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


When Wynne-bag LIE-berals came out with their mouldy green energy and electric TOY car policies they DID INTEND to install chargers in locations handy for HOGS -such as LCBO and govt offices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I even went so far as to suggest that in the future - it will become a PERK of HOG office that they get FREE ACCESS to electric TOY car chargers AT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



but the Wynne-bag defeat spoiled that plan..........................for now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And if all this is sounding more and more like an Orwellian SCHEME to limit traffic jams and restrict where and how often we travel.......


the I THINK YOU CAUGHT THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals are not smart enough to plan all this out for themselves though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is merely a confluence of like minded Soviet Socialist LIE-berals and HOGS finding some common ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Think in terms of Hitler, Mussolini and the Imperial Japanese govt......................................


NONE of them liked each other..............................................


but they cooperated against the west................................


in that handy confluence of interests!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And if Germany had defeated Britain it is quite likely the Japanese would have ended up fighting Germany for world domination...........


but the confluence of interests was STILL A HUGE DANGER in spite of what might have happened to the Axis Alliance AFTER we were defeated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our new enemies now sit in Parliament..........................................


and works with union HOGS to poison our opportunities....................................


because THEY ARE ENTITLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just look at how loudly they are SCREAMING at Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Simply because he CUT their ability to get YET ANOTHER PAY RAISE LATER THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals set their budgets in the spring.............................................


and HAND OUT HOG PAY RAISES in the autumn................................


so the connection between LIE-beral vote buying and LIE-beral tax increases is LESS OBVIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JLM]

I'm not out to "punish" anyone, but I am realistic enough to see that what is coming is in part a result of our reluctance to deal with the problem effectively in the past decades. As a society we are pretty good at turning a blind eye to the hard decisions. Calling changing weather patterns "part of a natural cycle" is just another way of hoping the problem will go away on its own. Pointing out that there are risks and consequences to energy sources other than the burning of fossil fuels is distraction, refusing to face the damage that burning fossil fuels is wreaking on us as we speak.


The days of burning fossil fuels for energy are numbered, make no mistake. The science is indisputable, the cost of climate change is manifesting itself in ways we were told was coming years ago but chose to ignore because it just wasn't convenient to take steps to change things.



Hydro-electric power does require a "re-purposing" of large areas of land, but it is a highly localized cost, it's up to us to decide if we want to see that as a cost or an investment. The burning of fossil fuels being as widespread as it is, is changing our environmental balance on a global scale. They told us fifty years ago we were f**king up the planet and we lit a cigarette and laughed it off, calling them alarmists and sensationalists. Well guess what, it's here now. Electing right wing governments to pander to big business and push environmental progress on to the back burner once again is only postponing the work that needs to be done, making it more expensive, invasive, and potentially futile.

You MIGHT be right, BUT you might be overlooking a few false premises. We should just hang tough until we can determine FOR SURE what is going on. "Climate change" is a nebulous term to begin with. What's it mean? Climate has been changing ever since the world began. No one was even talking about climate change or global warming 15 years ago. 15 years is a pretty short span to determine there is serious climate change and if there is what is causing it? I think there is a lot of stuff we should be doing to clean up the environment and reduce waste regardless of the climate change propaganda and it's certain nothing will be harmed by doing that. Maybe when that is done we'll have some more solid answers. Personally I think Mother Nature will fix some of the problems as she's done in the past. If carbon deposits in the atmosphere is a problem, can't we go about reducing them without taxing people who are already over taxed? I'm sure most of us can manage to be a little more vigilant in cutting waste to begin with.

 

[JLM]

Oh if only the URANIUM LOBBY was the only one to deal with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us not forget the MASSIVE EFFORTS in support of electric TOY cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're rambling all over the map. First of all we are involved in a 50 or 100 year process. Limitations on chargers at this stage isn't a valid argument any more than limitations on light bulbs two weeks after they were invented is. The is NOTHING wrong with people riding buses as long as we understand it's NOT the answer for ALL situations and as long as we are only persuading people to do it and not forcing them. One person travelling long distances on a regular basis in a two ton machine is stupid where there is an alternative. Bringing political parties into the discussion is also stupid. Your posts would be much more persuasive if you limited them to one or two paragraphs dealing with one thing at a time. JMHO.

 

[pgs]

I'm not out to "punish" anyone, but I am realistic enough to see that what is coming is in part a result of our reluctance to deal with the problem effectively in the past decades. As a society we are pretty good at turning a blind eye to the hard decisions. Calling changing weather patterns "part of a natural cycle" is just another way of hoping the problem will go away on its own. Pointing out that there are risks and consequences to energy sources other than the burning of fossil fuels is distraction, refusing to face the damage that burning fossil fuels is wreaking on us as we speak.


The days of burning fossil fuels for energy are numbered, make no mistake. The science is indisputable, the cost of climate change is manifesting itself in ways we were told was coming years ago but chose to ignore because it just wasn't convenient to take steps to change things.



Hydro-electric power does require a "re-purposing" of large areas of land, but it is a highly localized cost, it's up to us to decide if we want to see that as a cost or an investment. The burning of fossil fuels being as widespread as it is, is changing our environmental balance on a global scale. They told us fifty years ago we were f**king up the planet and we lit a cigarette and laughed it off, calling them alarmists and sensationalists. Well guess what, it's here now. Electing right wing governments to pander to big business and push environmental progress on to the back burner once again is only postponing the work that needs to be done, making it more expensive, invasive, and potentially futile.

What about the big polluters Nick ? Why does airline travel never get mentioned ? How about those cruise ships plying the coast of B.C. to Alaska , why are we not curtailing these ? Where are these raising oceans ? And how about that ice free arctic? Now forgetting that , why don’t you check out some pictures from the 1960s and notice the big cloud hanging over cities , those have mostly gone away due to emissions control on autos and less toxic additives in gasoline ( sulphur and lead ) and switching home heating to clean green natural gas . Our environmental regulations have stiffened considerably in the last 60 years so much so that our waterways are less polluted and in many instances more productive . We can continue on this path and ride the wave of prosperity that is providing the highest standard of living the world has ever seen , or kill the economy . It is clear you would rather kill the economy .