US Federal Banking bailout

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
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California
Darkbeaver,
Paulson is the former Goldman Sachs CEO. No wonder they have been granted a request for a change in their banking status! If the US thinks it has problems now wait until China knocks on the door wanting redemption of the US Bearer Bonds they have that are worth billions.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
4,597
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49° 19' N, 123° 4' W
It is just me or is the United States economy in a lot worse shape than how it's being portrayed? It seems pretty bad, but I think it's actually worse than how we're all led to believe. We are totally screwed. The world is changing at an alarming rate and I seriously doubt Canada can compete. Probably best to move into the woods.....
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
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Buyers are the problem Tracy, there aren't many.One problem is that banks are not lending, credit is freezing up. The buying will only take place by institutions, like banks, when they can get the propertys at pennies on the dollar.

That's simply not true. Banks are still lending to appropriate people. The credit freeze is for the types of loans that never should have been made in the first place (the subprime loans and interest only and negative amortization loans). If you have a good credit score and can put 10% down, it isn't hard to get a mortgage. Banks are trying to get rid of properties. They don't buy them, they are simply foreclosing on the properties their mortgage payers are defaulting on. Then they try to sell that property to people like me. Most of the properties I've seen have either been short sales or foreclosures. In either case, the bank loses money. I live in southern California which seems to be one of the epicenters of the real estate collapse. Still, one bedroom condos sell for 225K. For a collapse, that isn't so terrible.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their sties with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
That's simply not true. Banks are still lending to appropriate people. The credit freeze is for the types of loans that never should have been made in the first place (the subprime loans and interest only and negative amortization loans). If you have a good credit score and can put 10% down, it isn't hard to get a mortgage. Banks are trying to get rid of properties. They don't buy them, they are simply foreclosing on the properties their mortgage payers are defaulting on. Then they try to sell that property to people like me. Most of the properties I've seen have either been short sales or foreclosures. In either case, the bank loses money. I live in southern California which seems to be one of the epicenters of the real estate collapse. Still, one bedroom condos sell for 225K. For a collapse, that isn't so terrible.

It is true, credit is freezing up Tracy, that is the root of the banking fear. Even the appropriate people are dwindling. Those who can put 10% down are few and far between.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
139
63
Location, Location
That's simply not true. Banks are still lending to appropriate people. The credit freeze is for the types of loans that never should have been made in the first place (the subprime loans and interest only and negative amortization loans). If you have a good credit score and can put 10% down, it isn't hard to get a mortgage.

That's not exactly true. Because the banks have lost a lot of collateral, they have lost a lot of their ability to make loans. Therefore, they are cracking down on all kinds of loans to people with good credit - lines of credit are being called in, for specious reasons.

It's happening all over the US, simply because the banks no longer have the capital to support so many loans. It's a widespread problem that is affecting quite a few people.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Upholding the Horrendous Business Practices of US Financial Institutions: "Thank You, Ladies and Gentlemen"

By Richard C. Cook

Global Research, September 22, 2008



The purpose of this brief statement is publicly to express my admiration and amazement at the way the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, The Honorable Ben Shalom Bernanke, the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, The Honorable Timothy F. Geithner, and the Secretary of the Treasury, The Honorable Henry M. Paulson, have come together so effectively to solve the financial problems of the United States of America.


After intense deliberation, and with the help of thousands of highly paid economists, accountants, and other professionals on their staffs, these three high officials of our leading financial agencies have devised a plan that is breathtaking in its simplicity, broad in its scope, and non-partisan in its appeal to our worthy representatives in Congress.


They have also served well the President of the United States , The Honorable George W. Bush, and the Vice-President, The Honorable Richard B. Cheney, those two dedicated and hard-working public servants to whom we have entrusted the spirit, the integrity, and the prosperity of our republic.


The three fine men mentioned above have decided to recommend a plan whereby several trillion dollars of bad loans will be subtracted from the books of any number of financial institutions threatened with further bankruptcy, including foreign-owned institutions, and will be added to the books as liabilities or potential liabilities of the United States government.


Even though these debts were incurred by the said financial institutions through horrendous business practices and frequent outright fraud, making them the responsibility of myself, my fellow citizens, our children and grandchildren, and our other posterity in perpetuity, has a devilish touch of whimsical genius about it.


I am sure that our Congress, consisting of men and women who removed all the regulatory safeguards that might have prevented such a debacle, and often were elected to office through campaign contributions made by executives of the financial institutions now in danger of collapse, will immediately ascertain the wisdom of these proposed measures and speedily approve them.


To all those who have so boldly stepped forward in our country’s hour of need, what more can I say, but “thank you ladies and gentlemen.”


Richard C. Cook is a former U.S. federal government analyst, whose career included service with the U.S. Civil Service Commission, the Food and Drug Administration, the Carter White House, NASA, and the U.S. Treasury Department.


We Can Stop Paulson's Plunder

By David Swanson

Global Research, September 22, 2008

There does not seem to be any way we are going to avoid shelling out a major amount of money to save banks from the unregulated greed of bankers. Dean Baker and Doug Henwood and every person with any economic expertise whom I find credible predicts disaster if we don't.

But, as Baker pointed out on Democracy Now! this morning, the bailout can punish those responsible rather than rewarding them. It can also be done without creating new dictatorial powers for the executive branch of our government.

Congress must reject Paulson's Plunder and enact a plan with these progressive principles from the Backbone Campaign:

A. The people who caused the problem or profited most should pay for it

1. Highly compensated executives total compensation should be capped or taxed heavily as a condition for being bailed out.
2. Tobin tax on all transactions in Finance, Insurance and Real Estate including currency transactions.
3. Government takes an equity stake, proportionate to the size of the bailout
4. Tax hedge fund managers' income
5. Accountability - fire executives of failed companies as done in the UK, and abrogate their severance packages.
6. Impose a five-year, 10 percent surtax on income over $1 million a year for couples and over $500,000 for single taxpayers.

B. Re-regulate to prevent this from happening again

1. Direct the Federal Reserve to intervene to prevent asset bubbles.
2. Extend reserve requirements to new security categories
3. Regulate the packaging of loans so they can be evaluated, rated, and priced rationally.
4. Regulate hedge funds and private equity funds in a way comparable to banks

C. Include Main Street in the bailout and invest in a new productive economy

1. Establish a moratorium on foreclosures, renegotiating mortgages or institute a rent-to-own plan to keep people in homes.
2. Create a major economic recovery package which puts Americans to work at decent wages, in productive jobs that add value to homes and communities.
3. Invest the taxes on speculation, executive compensation, and the surtax on the wealthy in clean energy, infrastructure, education, and health care.

You can send this proposal to Congress by clicking here:

http://democrats.com/stop-paulsons-plunder
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
{quote] You don't see too much of me Ottawabill, most of the year I live off the grid in the forest but I don't have to be far away from anything but the noise.[/quote]

Goodness Ward, the Beaver is homeless!

 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
It is true, credit is freezing up Tracy, that is the root of the banking fear. Even the appropriate people are dwindling. Those who can put 10% down are few and far between.

If you can't put 10% down, you have no business buying a home. What is with people that they think they should all be entitled to mortgages when they haven't even been able to save anything close to a reasonable down payment? I'm a nurse, so it isn't like my wage is huge or anything, but with a little discipline and a fair bit of overtime I've been able to save enough to put 10% down. I was willing to wait until I could do that before buying. That used to be how everyone did it.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
That's not exactly true. Because the banks have lost a lot of collateral, they have lost a lot of their ability to make loans. Therefore, they are cracking down on all kinds of loans to people with good credit - lines of credit are being called in, for specious reasons.

It's happening all over the US, simply because the banks no longer have the capital to support so many loans. It's a widespread problem that is affecting quite a few people.

Sorry, I was referring more to mortgages and his assertion there aren't potential homebuyers out there. I'm one of them:)

But, those lines of credit are also often inappropriate, especially HELOCs. People here have been using their homes like ATM machines to support lifestyles they couldn't afford. Even if they have good credit scores, that's still a bad financial decision and is leading to a lot of foreclosures. People will also see their credit card companies being less generous with their limits, but again I think that's completely reasonable.

The root problem here is greed. People have been living beyond their means by using credit cards, HELOCs, shady mortgages all to do what... amass more things? It was stupid. At some point reality had to come back to bite them in the a$$. It's a shame that it's affecting people who acted responsibly, but it will affect them much less than those who have acted irresponsibly. I'll see my retirement accounts decrease in value, but I have time to make it up since I'm not going to be retiring for over 30 years. I'll have to pay more for things like gas and electricity and food thanks to inflation. I'll see some city and state services decrease thanks to their lack of revenue. I'll probably see my taxes increase. But, I have a stable job and enough of a safety net to weather bad times (an emergency fund, health insurance, disability insurance, etc). I have those things because I made conservative decisions with my money. It used to just go without saying that the economy wouldn't always be great. I don't know why people weren't saving for the rainy day that always comes eventually.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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The way I see it, the root problem is a housing bubble that is deflating; a bubble that was fuelled by unnecessarily low interest rates and tax relief instead of government debt management. It was economic growth numbers at all costs. Where are those tax-relief dollars now? What does the country have to show for it's tax reductions? Keep the money in your pocket, eh? Ya right. Check the pockets, it's gone.

The more I think about this bailout stuff the worse I feel about it.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
18
California
Kreskin,
Isn't it funny the US couldn't find $200 Billion to fund Health Care for all but can find $700 Billion to give to the Bankers to get them out of hock? On the AIG deal there is interest involved so there might possibly be some return but not with this proposal. Paulson wants no limits set on this deal. Also, I just found out the White House has sat on this since before the Olympics knowing it would be an issue. This plan was hatched several months ago. Why the rush now?
 
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Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Kreskin,
Isn't it funny the US couldn't find $200 Billion to fund Health Care for all but can find $700 Billion to give to the Bankers to get them out of hock? On the AIG deal there is interest involved so there might possibly be some return but not with this proposal. Paulson wants no limits set on this deal. Also, I just found out the White House has sat on this since before the Olympics knowing it would be an issue. This plan was hatched several months ago. Why the rush now?
Hey Norm, they were probably hoping to get past the election before having this cave in. Now that it is a full blown election item it's a political football. I'm trying to understand what's in it for the regular folk who got trapped in this landslide or the US taxpayer. There can't be a nevernever debt plan.

There is a ton of cash sitting on the sidelines. If they can get some of it back into the housing market to stablize it then perhaps there would be less foreclosures in the future. I'm still sticking to my idea whereby for a year or two investors should be able to buy residential property and have capital gains taxes waived if held for a period of something like 15 years. This would bring more buyers in to help liquidate the inventory quicker and they wouldn't benefit by short term buy and flip. A lot of the houses would stay off the market for years. It would give 15 years to get the government books into better shape before those properties would reappear. It would also give the high end income earners some good tax relief but on a deferred basis.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
18
California
Kreskin,
I think you have some very valid points. But I still think the money will come from China and right now the last pieces of the former industrial machine in the US is being sold off a piece at a time. If the real truth ever comes out I'm sure there will be an eye opener too. All I see with Bush on TV is trying the same old game he succeeded with just before we attacked Iraq.
 

jjaycee98

Electoral Member
Jan 27, 2006
421
4
18
British Columbia
Where does the FBI weigh in?

What about the FBI investigation of this situation? Will they be allowed the information to track down the criminals in this? One interview on CNN stated that there would be heads rolling right up to Congress.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
There are a series of credit disasters to work through. Car loans, commercial real estate, credit cards all to come. The bailout will be taken by the banks and invested in hard currencys far outside of the USA. There is no fix for the American economy, it will never exist again as we knew it. Thirty years minimum to repair the damage and there is no plan to do that.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
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Oshawa
There are a series of credit disasters to work through. Car loans, commercial real estate, credit cards all to come. The bailout will be taken by the banks and invested in hard currencys far outside of the USA. There is no fix for the American economy, it will never exist again as we knew it. Thirty years minimum to repair the damage and there is no plan to do that.


Wow, what a genius. It wasn't the same after the depression or the last recession either. Good call captain obvious.:roll:

I know this will hurt you but in a few years people will still be getting rich in the U.S. and common citzens won't be losing their homes as long as they work hard and pay the bills.