Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’

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Tonington

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Carbon is good for plant life. So in reality all we're really hurting is ourselves by removing the carbon in the atmosphere.
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So who is this bad for again?
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Corals, some species of phytoplankton (which produce a large portion of the oxygen in our atmosphere), and some bivalves for starters.

And that's just from the ocean acidification that happens when carbon dioxide dissolves in sea water as carbonic acid. Warming waters also wreak havoc on a host of other sea creatures.
 

Scott Free

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Corals, some species of phytoplankton (which produce a large portion of the oxygen in our atmosphere), and some bivalves for starters.

And that's just from the ocean acidification that happens when carbon dioxide dissolves in sea water as carbonic acid. Warming waters also wreak havoc on a host of other sea creatures.

What are ya? A fish?

Doesn't matter, the oceans are almost dead and carbon didn't have anything to do with it.
 

Tonington

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What are ya? A fish?

Yes, that's right. I'm a big fish in a small pond. You better swim faster or hope you taste like poison. :roll:

Doesn't matter, the oceans are almost dead and carbon didn't have anything to do with it.
You're right, people did. Just as the acidification is of our doing. That doesn't make it any more acceptable.
 

Extrafire

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Global Warming Out, Global Cooling In

Four scientists, four scenarios, four more or less similar conclusions without actually saying it outright -- the global warming trendis done, and a cooling trend is about to kick in. The implication: Future energy price response is likely to be significant.




Late last month, some leading climatologists and meteorologists met in New York at the Energy Business Watch Climate and Hurricane Forum. The theme of the forum strongly suggested that a period of global cooling is about emerge, though possible concerns for a political backlash kept it from being spelled out.

However, the message was loud and clear, a cyclical global warming trend may be coming to an end for a variety of reasons, and a new cooling cycle could impact the energy markets in a big way.




Words like "highly possible," "likely" or "reasonably convincing" about what may soon occur were used frequently. Then there were other words like "mass pattern shift" and "wholesale change in anomalies" and "changes in global circulation."

Noted presenters, such as William Gray, Harry van Loon, Rol Madden and Dave Melita, signaled in the strongest terms that huge climate changes are afoot. Each weather guru, from a different angle, suggested that global warming is part of a cycle that is nearing an end. All agreed the earth is in a warm cycle right now, and has been for a while, but that is about to change significantly.




However, amid all of the highly suggestive rhetoric, none of the weather and climate pundits said outright that a global cooling trend is about to replace the global warming trend in a shift that could begin as early as next year.

Van Loon spoke about his theories of solar storms and how, combined with, or because of these storms, the Earth has been on a relative roller coaster of climate cycles. For the past 250 years, he said, global climate highs and lows have followed the broad pattern of low and high solar activity. And shorter 11-year sunspot cycles are even more easily correlated to global temperatures.




It was cooler from 1883 to 1928 when there was low solar activity, he said, and it has been warmer since 1947 with increased solar activity.

"We are on our way out of the latest (warming) cycle, and are headed for a new cycle of low (solar) activity," van Loon said. "There is a change coming. We may see 180-degree changes in anomalies during high and low sunspot periods. There were three global climate changes in the last century, there is a change coming now."




Meanwhile, Madden noted that while temperature forecasts longer than one to two weeks out has improved, "what has really gotten much better is climate forecasting … predicting the change in the mean," he said.
And the drivers impacting climate suggest a shift to cooler sea surface temperatures, he said.
Perhaps the best known speaker was Colorado State University's Gray, founder of the school's famed hurricane research team. Gray spoke about multi-decade periods of warming and cooling and how global climate flux has been the norm for as long as there have been records.
Gray has taken quite a bit of political heat for insistence that global warming is not a man-made condition. Man-made carbon dioxide (CO2) is negligible, he said, compared to the amount of CO2 Mother Nature makes and disposes of each day or century.

"We've reached the top of the heat cycle," he said. "The next 10 years will be hardly any warmer than the last 10 years."





Finally, climate scientist Melita spoke of a new phase in the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.




"I'm looking at a new, cold-negative phase, though it won't effect this summer, fall or winter '08," he said.
Conference host, analyst and forecaster Andy Weissman closed the conference by addressing how natural gas prices and policy debates would be impacted by a possible climate shift that could leave the market short gas.
This would be especially problematic if gas use for power generation were substantially increased at the expense of better alternatives.
"If we're about to shift into another natural climate cycle, wecan't do it without coal-fired generation. So the policy debate has to change," he said. "Coal has to be back on the table if we're ever going to meet our energy needs."
As for natural gas: "Next year, may see a bit of price softening," Weissman said. "After that, fogetaboutit!".
Alan Lammey, Houston
http://http://www.houstonenergyanalyst.com/Global_Warming.html
 

scratch

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http://http://www.houstonenergyanalyst.com/Global_Warming.html




....IMO....I believe it is not.....just look at the weather...this was predicted in 1967...and eerie and abnormal things are going on with the weather, the ocean....glacier splitting....and on and on..


 

Extrafire

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....IMO....I believe it is not.....just look at the weather...this was predicted in 1967...and eerie and abnormal things are going on with the weather, the ocean....glacier splitting....and on and on..

Predicted in 1967? I don't recall that. 1967 was a very hot year, a very bad fire season for the province of BC. Got sunny in June and didn't end till sometime in October. I was with the BC Forest Service at the time and we were still fighting fires. They even postponed the start of the hunting season for a month because the woods were so hot and dry. Nevertheless, 1967 was the middle of a 30 year global cooling, so what were they predicting? I recall that 1968 was a bitterly cold winter, much colder than normal. Okanagan lake froze over. Kalamalka lake was frozen over till after Easter. It was only a few years later that the global cooling scare was foisted upon us, with predictions of an imminent ice age. Is that what was predicted in 1967, or were they trying to predict the future based on one hot year in the middle of the cooling?

Of course, you have to keep in mind that this was only BC/western Canada where these weather events were happening, and you can't extrapolate it for the whole globe, even though, at the time, the globe was definitely cooling.
 

Extrafire

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I can't get the link to work.
Anyway, from an article on June 18:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7461707.stm

another from Aug. 1:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=695981

Maybe the heat that is melting it is localized to the arctic and not the rest of the planet. :roll:

Well if it's localized then it isn't global warming, is it? Considering that at the other end of the globe, the ice coverage is increasing to record levels and the Antarctic ice cap is growing, it doesn't really sound like global warming.

As for those articles, old stuff that's already been debunked.

For anyone who's betting that 2008 meltback will exceed 2007 meltback, I think that you'll be able to pretty much know where you stand by the end of this week and your chances are not looking good right now based on this week's exit polls. Another Climate Audit first.

The plot below shows the daily meltback for the last 5 years. 2007 is in red, 2008 in black. Notice the surge in 2007 at the end of June and beginning of July. We're at julian day 182 today - July 2, 2008.


Daily melt (in million sq km)

The most intense melt occurred last year between day 179 (June 29) and day 184 (July 4) with 160,000 sq km meltback on day 182 (July 2) and over 200,000 sq km on day 183 (July 3). This year's a leap year, so that July 2 is already day 182 and was only 90,000 sq km. As of yesterday, 2008 was about 510,000 sq km behind 2007 and it looks like it is losing ground day by day in the first week of July - a big melt week where it has to make time.

[...]

Update: Here's a graphic that may show my guess a little more clearly. Here I've shown a smooth of the average melt (lowess with f=.2) for the average of the period with online daily information at the website linked here, 2007 and 2008. I realize that high melt periods can vary a bit, but sometimes in a pennant race one team build an insurmountable lead. My guess is that 2007 already has an insurmountable lead over 2008.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3229
"It will without doubt have come to your Lordship's knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated.
(This) affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations."President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817 [13]

In August 2000, a Russian icebreaker, the Yamal, took a group of environmental scientists on an excursion into the Arctic Ocean. When they got to the North Pole they were greeted by an expanse of open water, photographs of which became the subject of sensationalist reporting in the media.
Among the scientists on the cruise was Dr. James McCarthy, an oceanographer, director of the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard University and a lead author for the IPCC. "It was totally unexpected,"he said in a report to the media. Another scientist aboard, Dr. Malcolm C. McKenna, a paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History, remarked "I don't know if anybody in history ever got to 90 degrees north to be greeted by water, not ice."
"The last time scientists can be certain the pole was awash in water was more than 50 million years ago." proclaimed the New York Times in an article entitled `The North Pole is melting' (August 19, 2000).

During an Arctic summer, the sun is in the sky 24 hours per day, giving the Arctic ocean more total sunlight than anywhere else on the planet, excepting the Antarctic during its summer season. The result is that large areas of the Arctic Ocean are ice free in summer at any one time, with large leads of open water and even larger `polynyas', stretches of open water tens of miles long and miles wide. This photo of three submarines visiting the North Pole in May 1987 shows the whole area criss-crossed with open water leads before the summer had even arrived.

Fig.4 - HMS Superb, USS Billfish, and USS Sea Devil in a North Pole rendezvous in 1987
(U.S. Navy Photo)

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An aerial view of typical sea ice shows it to be a patchwork of ice slabs separated by areas of open water. In winter the ice will be more continuous as the ice free areas freeze over.


Fig.7 - Aerial view of typical polar sea ice.
In the rush to sensationalise the story, the New York Times and other media outlets failed to check whether the claims they were making were actually true.
For example, one crew member aboard the USS Skate which surfaced at the North Pole in 1959 and numerous other locations during Arctic cruises in 1958 and 1959 said: [5]
"the Skate found open water both in the summer and following winter. We surfaced near the North Pole in the winter through thin ice less than 2 feet thick. The ice moves from Alaska to Iceland and the wind and tides causes open water as the ice breaks up. The Ice at the polar ice cap is an average of 6-8 feet thick, but with the wind and tides the ice will crack and open into large polynyas (areas of open water), these areas will refreeze over with thin ice. We had sonar equipment that would find these open or thin areas to come up through, thus limiting any damage to the submarine. The ice would also close in and cover these areas crushing together making large ice ridges both above and below the water. We came up through a very large opening in 1958 that was 1/2 mile long and 200 yards wide. The wind came up and closed the opening within 2 hours. On both trips we were able to find open water. We were not able to surface through ice thicker than 3 feet."
Other scientists and experts on the Arctic environment quickly dismissed the McCarthy claims, pointing out that stretches of open water in summertime are very common in the Arctic [12]. Previous Arctic explorers even expressed frustration at being unable to proceed over the ice due precisely to unpredictable areas of open water obstructing their progress. The reason for the areas of open water is that the floating ice is subject to stresses from wind, currents and tides, causing cracking, ridging between slabs, and the creation of open leads of water between separating ice slabs. In winter, open leads quickly freeze over from the sub-zero air temperature, but in summer with the air temperature often above sea water freezing point (-2°C), such leads can remain open for extended periods.
In the end, the New York Times retracted the story. But we should not be too quick to blame them - it was IPCC scientists aboard the Yamal, particularly James McCarthy, who first started the scare story. The media simply took his word at face value assuming his scientific credentials would be sufficient authority to support the story.
</B>

http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

Don't let the fearmongers panic you.
 
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Extrafire

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I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.

FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years.

When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects.

The evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet.

But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

There has not been a public debate about the causes of global warming and most of the public and our decision makers are not aware of the most basic salient facts:

1. The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.

Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.

If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.

When the signature was found to be missing in 2007 (after the latest IPCC report), alarmists objected that maybe the readings of the radiosonde thermometers might not be accurate and maybe the hot spot was there but had gone undetected. Yet hundreds of radiosondes have given the same answer, so statistically it is not possible that they missed the hot spot.

Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot. If you believe that you'd believe anything.

2. There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming.

3. The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling.

4. The new ice cores show that in the past six global warmings over the past half a million years, the temperature rises occurred on average 800 years before the accompanying rise in atmospheric carbon. Which says something important about which was cause and which was effect.

None of these points are controversial. The alarmist scientists agree with them, though they would dispute their relevance.

The last point was known and past dispute by 2003, yet Al Gore made his movie in 2005 and presented the ice cores as the sole reason for believing that carbon emissions cause global warming. In any other political context our cynical and experienced press corps would surely have called this dishonest and widely questioned the politician's assertion.

Until now the global warming debate has merely been an academic matter of little interest. Now that it matters, we should debate the causes of global warming.

So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions.

In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved.

If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?

The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory.

What is going to happen over the next decade as global temperatures continue not to rise? The Labor Government is about to deliberately wreck the economy in order to reduce carbon emissions. If the reasons later turn out to be bogus, the electorate is not going to re-elect a Labor government for a long time. When it comes to light that the carbon scare was known to be bogus in 2008, the ALP is going to be regarded as criminally negligent or ideologically stupid for not having seen through it. And if the Liberals support the general thrust of their actions, they will be seen likewise.

The onus should be on those who want to change things to provide evidence for why the changes are necessary. The Australian public is eventually going to have to be told the evidence anyway, so it might as well be told before wrecking the economy.

Dr David Evans was a consultant to the Australian Greenhouse Office from 1999 to 2005.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24036736-7583,00.html
 

Extrafire

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There has been a great deal of speculation about the possibility that the arctic sea ice could, at the worst case, melt entirely, or more realistic, possibly break the record sea ice melt set last year.
Judge for yourself. This photo with 1 kilometer/pixel resolution was taken yesterday July 12th at 17:05 UTC:

Click for full size image - link to original source image is here
Note that the image above has been rotated, and the annotation for date/time added to make it easier to present here. There is some cloud cover, but if you look carefully, you can determine what is cloud cover and what is sea ice.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/satellite-imagery-shows-artic-ice-still-unmelted/
 

Tonington

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Wow, the blogs are certainly active these days...

The electrical engineer who apparently isn't comfortable enough with that title, so instead calls himself a rocket scientist. Great expert witness by the way :roll:...

Photos that show very little, are apparently enough to quell all questions. I wonder if they could make out a submarine in that photo???

People who ought to know better conflating one seasons weather with a trend, ie. including a year in an average when that year isn't over, for starters wtf???

Folks talking about paleo-climate with not the studies to make such claims...

And, photos that show single year ice as the norm...

Must be a slow week...
 

Extrafire

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if these wankers were serious about global warming/climate change, we wouldnt be allowed to cut another tree down, afterall, they are an important filter system....
http://forestry.about.com/od/treephysiology/tp/tree_value.htm

Yup, trees are marvelous plants. But not cutting them wouldn't have much effect against a carbon sink or oxygen production as the article claims. Forests have pretty much reached equilibrium in that respect. The trees don't live forever, and when they burn or rot, as they all will, almost all of the carbon is returned to the atmosphere and they use up as much oxygen as they created. When we log and use the fiber for wood and paper products, those products become a carbon sink because they are preserved, either in furniture, buildings or paper. Paper in a land fill doesn't release its carbon. By the way, recycling doesn't save the life of one tree.

And then we replant, so the amount of carbon sequestered in trees actually increases. Of course, not all countries do as we do, which brings us to your second link.


Millions of acres of tropical land are being deforested to grow bio-fuels for environmentally concious Europeans. As usual, any evironmental fad that gets widely adopted does much more harm than good.
 

Extrafire

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Wow, the blogs are certainly active these days...

The electrical engineer who apparently isn't comfortable enough with that title, so instead calls himself a rocket scientist. Great expert witness by the way :roll:...
You don't understand self deprecation?

Photos that show very little, are apparently enough to quell all questions. I wonder if they could make out a submarine in that photo???
Pretty hard to show that much detail in a photo of the whole arctic. And it showed enough to counter the melting claim.

People who ought to know better conflating one seasons weather with a trend, ie. including a year in an average when that year isn't over, for starters wtf???

Folks talking about paleo-climate with not the studies to make such claims...

And, photos that show single year ice as the norm...

Must be a slow week...
I gotta agree with you on those. These were answers to people making those type of claims from the opposite point of view. Sauce for the goose...
 

Scott Free

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Ah yes the Mars phenom the last great argument from the flat-earthers.

What a laughing stock you've become.:lol:

Seeing as you only have evidence of warming but no evidence of causation perhaps you should enlighten us oh anointed one before casting us to the stake to be burned for crimes against um... the church of terribly piss poor science.. :roll:
 
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