Is there proof of life after death

Scott Free

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May 9, 2007
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u have a right to believe what u want, so go ahead

I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. Most children raised in a religion follow that religion. What religion you are is pretty much determined by who raised you and where. Only 1 in 12 people ever breaks from that. How odd huh? That doesn't sound like free choice to me. Does it to you?
 

MissAnnika

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Jun 30, 2008
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i was more aiming that statement towards u.
i was just stating my personal statement, i didnt say i was right. when it comes down to it no one really knows for sure, science or not they have investigated in the first place due to a personal opinion and tried to prove themselves right because no one likes to be wrong
 

Scott Free

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i was more aiming that statement towards u.
i was just stating my personal statement, i didnt say i was right. when it comes down to it no one really knows for sure, science or not they have investigated in the first place due to a personal opinion and tried to prove themselves right because no one likes to be wrong

I'm sorry. Some people like to be wrong. I do for example. I love being wrong because it means I have a chance to learn something. I agree with you though, if I think I'm going to be proved wrong I'll fight a lot harder but only because I want to make sure I'm wrong. I have been wrong about many things so far in my life and I look forward to being wrong about many more.

I'll give you an example of what I mean. I might hear a new genera of music and think "I don't like that music." As I listen though I come to like it. I find I was wrong. I really do like it. How exciting! I now have a whole new genera of music to explore.

That is all being wrong means to me and I find it very exciting.
 

Scott Free

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it depends on the person i guess. on how stubborn a person is on whether they like to be wrong or right

Maybe. It is always a good bet for people to assume they're wrong though. It might be no one can change their mind yet but still they probably are wrong. Most people are wrong about everything. I assume I am. I always think I'm wrong but still, I'm going to go with the best argument.

We are flawed creatures that see the world not as it is but as we have evolved to see it. We can't see sound like a bat, we don't see in the dark like a dog, we can't see like a hawk. There are many worlds in worlds and we are just one small perception. We hardly know anything and we are mostly wrong about everything.

I'll give you an example: Did you know there is no red? There is no colour at all. We see red because our eyes decided to interpret a certain wave length of light as red (whatever the hell that is). Dogs, however, can't see red. They live in a world without red. Red only exists in our minds. It isn't real. Every time we see red we are mistaken. We are not seeing what is really there. We are only seeing what we have evolved to be able to see.

All our senses are like that. Our minds work in a similar fashion. Most people are wrong about damn near everything in that they have no idea what is really going on around them.
 

eanassir

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Jul 26, 2007
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Do you have any evidence of that? What makes you so sure? If you have a soul what is it made of? Why does it only go somewhere when you die? If your body is dead wouldn't your soul also be dead? If not then why not? Also if not could you show me a picture of your soul - any soul? I would love to see a picture of one. I know what a heart and liver look like. Where in the body is the soul? Can I find a picture of one in Greys Anatomy? If not, why not?


Do you have any evidence of that?
What makes you so sure?

All these systems and orders that go on: birth, then growing to reach adulthood then maturity then elderly then death indicates there is purpose; all the generations that passed before us; is all this useless and in vain? it can't be as such.

Moreover, will the criminal and sinner be like the just and upright? Because according to the atheist there will be no life after death, then all will be alike: because both of them will become dust!

There had been many personal and general observations about such spiritual beings.

In addition and prior to everything else, we have been told in the Bible and the Quran that there is another spiritual life that will follow death.

If you have a soul what is it made of?

The soul is made of the ethereal particles united together to form the ethereal spiritual structure which is identical with the material body of man.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#ether_

The soul is a true copy of the body in shape and organs, but all that is spiritual and ethereal.
The soul is the true man not the body; the body is only a mould inside which the soul has been formed; when man reaches maturity then dies, there will be no need for the body following death. The soul is immortal and will live forever.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#The_Soul_

It is the soul that hears, sees and perceives the pain and pleasure, not the body.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#Special_Senses_of_the_Soul_


Why does it only go somewhere when you die?
1- The soul goes out of the body at death, and this will be permanently. This is because the body has undergone some changes that the soul cannot communicate with the body. This will be in two ways:

A- When some catastrophe afflicts the man, like cutting his head or a bullet in his heart or something similar to this, then the soul cannot stay and keep communication with the body. In such circumstances, the death angel will not attend.
B- At the time of death appointment: when the body is usually intact, (or diseased or at his elderly or at any time of the death appointed by God) but the viable liquid in his body will have undergone oxidation (carried out by the angel of death); then the soul will not be able to communicate with the body.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#What_Is_Death_


2- And it goes out of the body at deep sleep and fainting or loss of consciousness and this will be temporarily.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#The_Fainting_


If your body is dead wouldn't your soul also be dead? If not then why not?

The body is material which will decay and become dust; but the soul is ethereal that will last forever.


Also if not could you show me a picture of your soul - any soul? I would love to see a picture of one.

There have been many pictures, like these pictures in the link given by quandary121
http://www.ghostresearch.org/ghostpics/


I know what a heart and liver look like. Where in the body is the soul?

The soul is a true copy of the body, that is identical to the body in every detail, it occupies the whole frame of the body: i.e. the ethereal hand of the soul occupies the material hand of the body, and the ethereal leg of the soul goes inside the material leg of the body and so on all the soul goes inside all the material body; and the body will be like the suit that the soul wears or the body will be like the shield and cover for the soul.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#Features_of_the_Soul_


Can I find a picture of one in Greys Anatomy? If not, why not?
This is a book of anatomy of the material human body; and it is not concerned with the ethereal spiritual soul.


eanassir
http://man-after-death.site.io
 
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darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I'm sorry. Some people like to be wrong. I do for example. I love being wrong because it means I have a chance to learn something. I agree with you though, if I think I'm going to be proved wrong I'll fight a lot harder but only because I want to make sure I'm wrong. I have been wrong about many things so far in my life and I look forward to being wrong about many more.

I'll give you an example of what I mean. I might hear a new genera of music and think "I don't like that music." As I listen though I come to like it. I find I was wrong. I really do like it. How exciting! I now have a whole new genera of music to explore.

That is all being wrong means to me and I find it very exciting.

It's interesting how many people fear being wrong because they fear ridicule. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Consequently they will adopt positions that adhere to the envogue clique, thinking to bask in the assembled limelight of that club. I think being wrong is a requirment of balanced life and a necessary kick that provides momentum.
 

eanassir

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It's interesting how many people fear being wrong because they fear ridicule. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Consequently they will adopt positions that adhere to the envogue clique, thinking to bask in the assembled limelight of that club. I think being wrong is a requirment of balanced life and a necessary kick that provides momentum.


Abraham refused the traditions of his people and searched about his Lord

The best example of such men as refuse the inherited traditions of their people was Prophet Abraham.

He grew within an idolatrous community; they served idols and the stars of the sky.
Before Abraham, there had passed Noah.

Noah (like all other apostles) brought to his people the monotheism: that God is One and the idols do not harm nor profit anything to anyone.

Many years later people started to be enthusiastic about Noah and his family, and started to sanctify Noah and his household members, and by time the old idolatry returned once again.

When Abraham came, and during his youth, he was of those enthusiastic about Noah just like his people; but he realized the truth: that Noah was only a human being like himself, and rejected the idols of his people.

Then he started to contemplate: Is the planet Venus his Lord? Then it set down; so he said this is not my Lord Who should not depart and leave us.

Then he saw the Moon, which is shining more; but when the Moon set down, he refused it like how did he refuse Venus.

Then he saw the Sun shining with its severe heat and strong light, but when it set down, he refuse it as a god; but he became bewildered and confused.

Therefore, he said: Let God Himself guide me to recognize Him.

So God sent to him Gabriel; Gabriel revealed to him that God is the Lord of angels and of Gabriel; God is the Holy and the Sanctified.

Abraham completed the sentence and said: God is our Lord and the Lord of angels and of Gabriel.

And God guided him and conferred on him the prophet-hood.

Then he wrangled with his people about the useless of their idols and that they should serve God alone, but they refused.

Afterwards he broke the idols of his people except the big idol, and hanged the ax in the neck of that idol.

When his people came, they asked him why he did that; Abraham answered them the big idols did it; because he did not agree that they should worship any other idol. All this was to prove to them that the idols are stones which do not harm nor profit anyone.

Then God saved him from their wickedness, and God chose Abraham as His loyal friend; this is the surname of Abraham which means that Abraham befriends with God and associates with Him no other friend in this friendship and exclusive alliance.

This is in the Quran 4: 125
وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لله وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ واتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَاتَّخَذَ اللّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلاً
The explanation:
(And who can be better in compliance [to God] than one who submits himself to God;

while being a well-doer and follows the creed of Abraham, the monotheist [who served God alone and was against the idolatry and the association with God];

God took Abraham for a loyal friend.)


eanassir
http://man-after-death.site.io
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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Oh, I see, like I can believe in the Tooth Fairy if I want? It's just a choice then?

That's all of it. People have huge and wonderful imaginations, and the brain can conjure
up, and believe anything it wants, to satisfy the emotions of that person, so go for it, if
that is your way.

But, I like truth and proof, and feel comfortable with a life which revolves around that
which has actually happened, and not something I have manufactured in my own mind.

Belief in things that you imagine, has absolutely nothing to do with fact and reality.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Abraham refused the traditions of his people and searched about his Lord

The best example of such men as refuse the inherited traditions of their people was Prophet Abraham.

He grew within an idolatrous community; they served idols and the stars of the sky.
Before Abraham, there had passed Noah.

Noah (like all other apostles) brought to his people the monotheism: that God is One and the idols do not harm nor profit anything to anyone.

Many years later people started to be enthusiastic about Noah and his family, and started to sanctify Noah and his household members, and by time the old idolatry returned once again.

When Abraham came, and during his youth, he was of those enthusiastic about Noah just like his people; but he realized the truth: that Noah was only a human being like himself, and rejected the idols of his people.

Then he started to contemplate: Is the planet Venus his Lord? Then it set down; so he said this is not my Lord Who should not depart and leave us.

Then he saw the Moon, which is shining more; but when the Moon set down, he refused it like how did he refuse Venus.

Then he saw the Sun shining with its severe heat and strong light, but when it set down, he refuse it as a god; but he became bewildered and confused.

Therefore, he said: Let God Himself guide me to recognize Him.

So God sent to him Gabriel; Gabriel revealed to him that God is the Lord of angels and of Gabriel; God is the Holy and the Sanctified.

Abraham completed the sentence and said: God is our Lord and the Lord of angels and of Gabriel.

And God guided him and conferred on him the prophet-hood.

Then he wrangled with his people about the useless of their idols and that they should serve God alone, but they refused.

Afterwards he broke the idols of his people except the big idol, and hanged the ax in the neck of that idol.

When his people came, they asked him why he did that; Abraham answered them the big idols did it; because he did not agree that they should worship any other idol. All this was to prove to them that the idols are stones which do not harm nor profit anyone.

Then God saved him from their wickedness, and God chose Abraham as His loyal friend; this is the surname of Abraham which means that Abraham befriends with God and associates with Him no other friend in this friendship and exclusive alliance.

This is in the Quran 4: 125
وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لله وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ واتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَاتَّخَذَ اللّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلاً
The explanation:
(And who can be better in compliance [to God] than one who submits himself to God;

while being a well-doer and follows the creed of Abraham, the monotheist [who served God alone and was against the idolatry and the association with God];

God took Abraham for a loyal friend.)


eanassir
http://man-after-death.site.io


Here's an interesting thought though those big stone idols, venus and the moon, were very powerful gods indeed, even today none can safely disobey and expect the crops on time or the floods. The reasons for the institution of monotheism have every thing to do with those old gods still. And if we want to be particularly obstinate, and I usually do, we can say that venus and the moon are every bit the better profit of god than Jesus, this diminishes gods omnipotence not a bit.
In the old times the priest was not arround the farmer and the hunter knew how to find and observe the instructions of the gods and he did exceedingly well to obey. The laziest among us had spare time to plot the usurpation of the old gods and thier replacement with the evermore efficient single outlet of celestial instruction. Consequently we became victims of the priests and we forgot the old ways. Every man woman and sparrow could look upon the face of god and read the messages in the trees in the winds in the water and earth. Where has the word of god gone E A.?

 

typingrandomstuff

Duration_Improvate
Proof

Life is...
a) able to talk
b) able to act
c) able to have fun
d) able to do some specific thing
e) able to be a biotic creature
f) all of the above
Please check biotic in the dictionary

Death is...
a) completely terminated from the earth
b) disappeared to other elements
c) transported to another world
d) dead like I believe I am dead
e) all of the above

I suppose:
Life is f)
Death is e)

Life after death.
A person must die in spirit. In spirit... In spirit... Oh. Near death is to think you are dead and have most of your physical abilities not working.

Quandary 121:
So I guess life after death is possible. As long as a universe restarts itself in the exact same way it is created, life after death is possible. The answer to this pecular question is: One of the proofs of life after death is repetition of creation. Let me simplify this answer. Everyone knows a little bit about Frankenstein. Frakenstein was stabbed to death by villagers. He is dead. Then a lab person recreate frankenstein exactly the same situation and way. Frankenstein is alive again. This is the proof of life after death.

Other proofs are there. It's too risky and shady to talk about them.
 

quandary121

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<B>Frederic Myers - Proof of Life After Death




[SIZE=-1]Excerpts about the life of Frederick Myers from the book by Ian Currie
"You Cannot Die: The Incredible Findings of a Century of Research on Death"
Edited by Peter Shepherd

Personal development has, as one of its aims, to transcend the human condition. If consciousness is limited to one's current lifetime, and if one's only route to immortality is to reproduce one's genes and to try to make one's mark on the world for the benefit of future generations, then still these are worthwhile aims.
But if, instead, one's consciousness survives death, then the motivation to transcend the human condition becomes far stronger. One's personal development in this lifetime will affect one's situation in the after-life, and it will determine one's future - whether it be to reincarnate in this world (in a worse, similar or better condition than one is now) or to fulfill one's potential by moving on to higher purposes and responsibilities.
Frederick Myers recognized this as a critical question for all intelligent people and worked relentlessly to provide us with a solid proof of life after death.

1. Frederic Myers

Frederick Myers was a professor of classics at Cambridge University in England. He was born in 1843 and he died in 1901. One overriding interest characterized this man: a passionate curiosity about the meaning of human life. He devoted most of his adult years to trying to satisfy this curiosity, but he did it in a rather unusual way. He did not pore over theological writings and philosophical speculation. He felt that if human life did have a purpose, then it could be discovered in only one way: through the study of human experiences. This conviction led him, in 1882, to found the first Society for Psychical Research with some of his Cambridge colleagues.
In particular, Myers and his associates wanted to know if human beings survived bodily death. If they did, then life in a body must have a discoverable purpose. Myers was a man of enormous energy and great intellectual ability. After twenty years of intensive investigation, he concluded that he had answered this question. He wrote a book about what he had learned that became a classic - probably the most important work ever written in this strange field - called "Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death".
Myers had a strong interest in mediumship, and grappled to the end of his life with the problems involved in interpreting its results. The difficulties lay not with the limitations of the mediums' powers, but with their scope. When a medium became entranced, and a voice, remarkably like that of a dead person, issued forth from her mouth, claiming to be that person and showing an encyclopedic knowledge of that person's life, then it seemed to Myers that contact was being made with the dead. Or when a medium, in a half-trance, seemed to be talking to someone who had been in his grave for some time, and was able to answer detailed questions about his life, Myers at first reached the conclusion that the dead still live.
But his research, in the end, didn't turn out to be quite that simple. For he became aware of cases in which those attending a seance had been given such detail about a person they knew who claimed in the communication to be dead. Later, however, they would discover that he was still alive! And in a few cases, as an experiment, someone had gone to a medium and mentally concentrated on an entirely fictitious personality, only to receive 'communications' from that 'personality,' claiming to come from beyond the grave! In other words, when mediums went into trance states, they could at times pick up accurate information about living or fictitious persons telepathically and deliver it as if it came from the dead. In other words, the medium may be unable to distinguish between telepathic communication from the living and telepathic communication from the dead. So this posed a problem. Mediums did not seem to do such things in a fraudulent spirit; they were sometimes unable to tell whether information came from the living or from the dead, but tended to make the sometimes false assumption it was from the latter. Myers never solved this problem during his life. What he did was even more impressive. He solved it after he was dead!


2. The Cross-Correspondences

Within a few weeks of Myers's death in 1901, some very strange communications began to be received by psychics in England, the United States and India. They came through automatic writing to a total of a dozen psychics and continued for a period of thirty years and then later by his fellow leaders of the Society for Psychical Research, Professor Henry Sidgwick and Edmund Gurney as they too died. What was strangest about them was that they made no sense. Or perhaps they did - for they were so mysteriously worded that it almost seemed their meaning was being deliberately concealed. And most of them were signed, "Myers." In all more than three thousand scripts were transmitted over thirty years. Some of them were more than forty typed pages long.

But although the text of the messages seemed indecipherable, the 'instructions' which often accompanied them were clear. These instructions repeated a number of themes. The 'script' should be sent to a particular person, who would turn out to be one of the other psychics involved. Or it should be sent to the Society for Psychical Research. And that although its content may seem to be senseless, it was in reality anything but: it was an attempt by the deseased communicator to prove his continued existence. These instructions and explanations were, in fact, frequent and explicit. "Record the bits," wrote Myers, "and when fitted they will make the whole." And again, "I will give the words between you that neither alone can read but together they will give the clue."
It was some time, however, before the people involved fully realized what was happening. When they did, they gathered the fragments together and found that they had communications which were clear, coherent and continuous. Most of these scripts consisted of references to and quotations from both classical and modern literature. Some were so obscure that only a scolar, and a specialized one at that, would recognize them. The intention was to make these scripts seem random and pointless to the individual psychics, in order to avoid giving clues to the train of thought behind them. They would only become meaningful and show evidence of design when pieced together by an independent investigator. The interest lies in the question: Who selected them to convey a train a thought which could not be deduced from any one person's script? The answer was the dead communicator.
Myers was trying to prove that the mind of the medium could not be the creator of the message: how could it be when the message was only a fragment which made no sense unless linked with other, equally 'meaningless' fragments. Myers was quite explicit about what he was doing. He was causing a dozen psychics, in various widely separated parts of the world, not only to refer to the same topic - often a highly obscure one - but to do so in ways which were complementary. Like the parts of a jigsaw puzzle, these 'pieces' did more than refer to the same theme; they did so in ways which were intricately intertwined. Those who studied and tried to interpret these 'jigsaw puzzles' called them cross-correspondences.
The simplest case involved the repetition of particular themes drawn from various language and literary sources. On April 24, 1907, while in trance in the United States, an American medium named Mrs Piper three times uttered the word "Thantos," a Greek word meaning 'death,' despite the fact that she had no knowledge of Greek. Such repetitions were often a signal that cross-correspondences were about to begin. But it had begun already. About a week earlier, in India, Mrs Holland had done some automatic writing, and in that script the following enigmatic communication had appeared: "Mors [Latin for death]. And with that the shadow of death fell upon his limbs." On April 29th, in England, Mrs Verrall, writing automatically, produced the words: "Warmed both hands before the fire of life. It fades and I am ready to depart." This is a quotation from a poem by nineteenth-century English poet, Walter Landor. Mrs Verrall next drew a triangle. This could be Delta, the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet. She had always considered it a symbol of death. She then wrote: "Manibus date lilia plenis" [give lilies with full hands]. This is a quotation from Virgil's Aeneid in which an early death is foretold. This was followed by the statement: "Come away, come away, Pallida mors [Latin for pale death]," and, finally, an explicit statement from the communicator: "You have got the word plainly written all along in your writing. Look back." The 'word,' or 'theme,' was quite obvious when these fragments, given in the same month to three mediums thousands of miles apart, were put together and scrutinized. And in view of the lifelong interest of the communicator, it was certainly an appropriate theme. Death.
This gives some indication of the complexity of even the simplest cross-correspondence. And most of those who have studied them have concluded that they were exactly what they claimed to be: an experiment conducted from beyond the grave to establish that Myers still lived.
Myers pursued this task with a diligence characteristic of him in life. From 1901 to 1932, more than three thousand scripts were communicated. Receiving and interpreting such a vast body of material was often burdensome to those involved. But for Myers, the whole enterprise was a source of anguish. He had survived physical death, as others do, and now he was desperately eager to communicate this fact in a fashion which would convince his still living colleagues. But, because he had no body, he had to use the minds of others. He had to struggle to 'get through.' And in the scripts he sent, he refers again and again to the suffering that this cost him.
"Oh, if I could only leave you the proof that I continue. Yet another attempt to run the blockade - to strive to get a message through. How can I make your hand docile enough - how can I convince them? I am trying, amid unspeakable difficulties. It is impossible for me to know how much of what I send reaches you. I feel as if I had presented my credentials - reiterated the proofs of my identity in a wearisomely repetitive manner. The nearest simile I can find to express the difficulty of sending a message is that I appear to be standing behind a sheet of frosted glass, which blurs sight and deadens sound, dicatating feebly to a reluctant and somewhat obtuse secretary. A feeling of terrible impotence burdens me. Oh it is a dark road."​
Myers, for all the grand scope of his interests, was a very modest man. And he was also a very systematic one. These two qualities perfectly explained the style and timing of his after-death communications. He had first to prove to his friends that he still lived and he devoted thirty years to that. But what was of even greater interest, once that was established, was his description of what it was like to be dead. Myers, always the scholar, was not about to run hastily into a discussion about such a momentous subject. He was very systematic and cautious about that too. He had been dead for nearly twenty-three years before, at last, he started to communicate on that most mysterious of all geographies - the world of the dead.
Myers was not, of course, the first to describe life after death. Plenty of other communicators had done that in spiritualist seances, but although their reports had at first been examined with fascinated anticipation, thay were soon dismissed with snorts of derision. For Heaven, the afterlife, had always been something very special to man - a transcendent paradise where the pain and struggle of this life would be surmounted and the mysteries of human life and death would at last be revealed in the very abode of God himself. But what was reported was quite something else indeed. For what the communicators described was nothing but an earth-life. It was terribly beautiful, and the 'dead' were very happy, and active too. What exactly did they do there? Well, pretty much what they had always done - they played golf, for example, and drank Scotch. They had sexual adventures and they smoked cigars. They played cards, lived in houses like those they had occupied on earth, and even went to work! Now this, obviously, could not be Heaven: it was clearly spiritualist self-delusion. Myers, however, was to show that these communicators were right - at least in part. For it had never occurred to the critics that if men were going to transcend their earth-lives after death and move onwards to a 'divine' realm, then it would certainly be a kindness to them them to start them off with something familiar - to match the lives and beliefs they were familiar with on earth.
3. The World of the Dead

Hades, the underworld, the world of shadows, is the realm where the lowest states of consciousness possible after death occur. Myers did not have much to say about Hades, for it did not greatly interest him. But when the comments which he did make are put together with those of other investigators, a reasonably clear picture of this world emerges. The dead who remain at this level have had their transition to the normal world of post-death existence aborted. In this realm dwell haunting ghosts and possessing spirits. The lowest after-death state possible is complete unconsciousness; a comatose, non-dreaming sleep-like state. A brief period of unconsciousness often follows a tiring death and is recuperative and normal. But where it is prolonged, it usually results from a kind of reverse faith - a belief, or an intense hope, that only nothingness and complete personal extinction follows death. This belief can produce a prolonged comatose state, just as religious beliefs or other preoccupations or expectations can model the after-death world in which the individual finds himself. When such unconscious spirits are brought by 'helping' discarnates to the body of a medium engaged in 'rescue' work for the dead, they typically result in instant loss of consciousness for the medium, and can be awakened and enlightened only with difficulty.
The next highest state involves consciousness without sensory input. Spirits in this state complain that they wander in darkness or dense mist. Should they come into the vicinity of a psychically sensitive person with a bright aura, they will be drawn to this light - as it exists in this alternative plane of existence - and may inadvertently 'possess' or attach to the victim. Clearly, the immediate cause of this condition is a low state of consciousness. People at this level can perceive neither the after-death environment nor the previous physical one. Only a small minority of the dead have to endure this state.
One step above the 'darkness' is the normal physical envirnment of the living - our present world. The dead who remain in this world find themselves 'right here' with the physically embodied. The great majority of those who get involved with hauntings or possessions dwell in this dis-embodied state. The anger and vindictiveness so often displayed by such spirits is understandable, for they have to operate in the physical realm, with their old physical and earthly interests, obsessions and desires, but without the body that would make their gratification possible, and often, as well, without even the realization that they are dead. This state can be prolonged; in fact, some communications with haunting ghosts show that it can last for centuries, even millenia. It may be that especially intense emotional attachments - of love, hatred, anguish - to embodied persons or earthly places is responsible for this condition.
After death, most of us, thankfully, will not have to endure unconsciousness, darkness, or bodiless frustration at the physical level. We pass immediately to the first normal after-death plane of existence. Myers's feelings about it were deeply ambivalent. He had loved it, for it could be supremely beautiful. It was obvious that this was the heaven for which men yearn and of which their theologies had always told them. But Myers discovered there were realms beyond it, and once he had developed enough to dwell there, he defined this first state of existence negatively - "the plane of illusion."

4. The Chain of Being

Myers discovered more. In fact, though a modest man, he discovered nothing less than the basic purpose of the universe. Were he the only one ever to maintain that this particular intent underlay the existence of the physical universe, there could be less reason to take him seriously; but the fact is that identical explanations have been asserted by others, both disembodied and embodied.
Myers's theory can be simply stated. Reality has two fundamental attributes - a physical one and a psychic one. The physical is represented by a universe of matter, located in a fixed space and time continuum. The psychic constitutes another, complementary world, which is not solid and fixed in matter, energy, space and time - instead of being a creation it is creative, instead of being an effect it is causative.
Developing psychic entities must gather numberless experiences, manifest and express themselves in uncountable forms, before they attain to completion. Once these are acquired the entities take on divine attributes. The reason therefore, for the universe - and the purpose of our existence - is the evolution of mind in matter.
Each of us begins as an extremely rudimentary psychic entity, capable of only a very simple physical embodiment. Through repeated embodiments, the psyche grows steadily more complex and ascends the chain of matter. Reincarnation, then, doesn't just involve human bodies - it involves every kind of matter and life form. Hence there are two fundamental kinds of 'learning' - embodied or physical, and disembodied or psychic. Between each embodied life there is a disembodied one. And to be a human being is not, according to Myers, anything like an ultimate state. One learns in a human body for a period of time and then - provided one has learnt the appropriate lessons - one moves on. One passes beyond physical embodiment altogether.
The ultimate existence conceivable to the mind of man is that of 'God,' and according to Myers, that is precisely where we are headed. Our training takes us through every form of existence - from mineral to plant, from plant to animal, from animal to human, from human to devine. We eventually return to our psychic origin, our true nature, which is that of God. It is like God exploring His Creation through our individual travels, experiences and education.
These stupendous conceptions endow a very odd poem with sense. Mystics have always claimed to have had direct experience of the nature of ultimate reality, and seven centuries ago, Rumi, a Persian mystic, wrote the following enigmatic lines:
I died a mineral and became a plant; I died a plant and rose an animal; I died an animal and I was a man. Why should I fear? When was I less by dying? Yet once more I shall die as a man, to soar With blessed angels; even from angelhood I must pass on ... When I have sacrificed my angel soul, I shall become that which no mind conceived.​
Seven hundred years later we find the remarkable psychic Joan Grant reaffirming exactly those ideas, which she derived from her own paranormal experiences:
"I acquired sufficient empirical experience to see the broad outlines of the progress of an individual during the initial four phases of his evolution. He starts with only enough ability to organize a single molecule. As his experience increases, and his consciousness begins to expand, he requires more complex forms through which to express that consciousness. When he can no longer be contained by the mineral phase of existence, he enters the plant kingdom, then graduates by a series of incarnations as various species of animal, to his first incarnation as a member of the human race."

5. Seth Speaks

Myers states that human beings reincarnate from the plane of illusion, but that once they have learned enough from periodic existences in the confines of this physical reality, they pass beyond these planes and need be embodied no longer.

An identical claim is made by 'Seth,' a discarnate teacher who communicates through the medium Jane Roberts. According to Seth, each individual consciousness - or spark of God-consciousness - must undergo a long period of training and learning through repeated physical embodiments. Being human is simply one 'stage' in this process of development, and when, through repeated incarnations, this stage is complete, one passes onward to further planes of existence which offer more exalted opportunities for development and creative expression of the God-like qualities of love, life and truth. The most crucial lesson to be learned is karmic or ethical. Through repeated embodiments, the undeveloped individual - through ignorant selfishness - treats others with cruelty and hatred, and, in accordance with natural process, is subjected to cruelty and hatred in return. When one treats others with unconditional and selfless love and kindness, one is likewise rewarded.
The ultimate result of these lessons is spiritual development and a passage beyond physical embodiment, giving access to God-like creative powers once the entity is highly enough evolved to use these in an ethically responsible way. While he is still unevolved and would use these powers to injure, control, exploit or destroy others, he does not have access to them.
In a series of trance communications, Seth had given Jane Roberts and her husband Rob a series of 'lectures' on the nature of reality as he perceived it from a plane higher than the human. With all Seth had told them about man's potentials, they wondered why the race isn't more developed morally and spiritually. They were pretty upset about the state of the world in general. That evening, Seth came through in his usual distinct, clear voice. Among other things, Seth said:
"The human race is a stage through which various forms of consciousness travel. Before you can enter into systems of reality that are more open and extensive, you must first learn through physical life. As a child forms mud pies from dirt, so you form your civilizations. When you leave the physical system after reincarnations, you have learned the lessons - and you are literally no longer a member of the human race for you elect to leave it. In more advanced systems, thoughts and emotions are automatically and immediately translated into whatever approximation of matter that exists. Therefore, the lessons must be taught and learned well. "The responsibility for creation must be clearly understood. In physical life on earth, you are in a soundproof and isolated room. Hate creates destruction in that room, and until the lessons are learned, destruction follows destruction ... the agonies are sorely felt. You must be taught to create responsibly. Earth life is a training system for emerging consciousness. If the sorrows and agonies of your system were not felt as real, the lessons would not be learned. It is like an educational play."
In other words, in these realms beyond the human, thought and emotion can immediately create - through the causative attribute of consciousness that is the power of intention - a concrete, objectively real environment. Entities - being essentially 'of God' - do not allow themselves to enter these realms until they are highly developed enough to create 'responsibly.'
http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/myers1.html
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Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
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48
BC
After my grandmother died I had dreams about her. She seemed happy and fine. In one dream she even had a new car which is strange because she never did drive. I suppose god gave her a licence.

Does that mean she's really still alive? What kind of cars do they have in heaven? What's the speed limit?
 

typingrandomstuff

Duration_Improvate
Most likely she isn't, but maybe you think she is still alive.
Cars in heaven: I don't think they need cars. If there are cars, any cars of your wish. After all, you can have anything in heaven. The speed limit is probably based on your discipline. If you help heaven and the galaxies more, the more likely the leader of heaven (the universes) will allow higher speed limit. Or a lower speed limit. Whatever you want.
 
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eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
those big stone idols, venus and the moon, were very powerful gods indeed, even today none can safely disobey and expect the crops on time or the floods. The reasons for the institution of monotheism have every thing to do with those old gods still.​

:smile:
You can imagine the deed of Abraham, how excellent it was! Can anyone do something like it; of course he can; Abraham was only a human being like other people; but was obedient and exclusively submissive to God Almighty.
Who can break up an idol among its worshippers?

First of all, he broke the idolatry within himself, and when he lift up the ax and brought it down on those statues that were worshipped by people; the first thing he did, he broke up the idolatry within himself and purified himself from every bit of the association with God. For this reason, he deserved his title "The loyal friend and exclusive ally of God".

Venus, Moon, Sun and idols has nothing to do with the production of crops, neither with averting the danger of the flood; but it is God That do all this.

venus and the moon are every bit the better profit of god than Jesus,



The crops are useful for making food and bread.

Jesus is well-known by his word: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Mat. 4: 4

Jesus was sent by God to purify them, but they did not respond to him; they had the Ten Words written by God, and they took the superficial and mere words, and did not apply the meaning.

See the parables of Jesus; it is conclusive evidence that he came from God.

He came with the First Commandment with its deep application: the love;

but his teachings were perverted into something worse than the idolatry through the enthusiasm, to the extent that they considered him as God Himself or son of God or one of three in association with God; and this is a tremendous thing that even the idolaters did not say before.
This is in the Quran 4: 136

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ آمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ مِن قَبْلُ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِاللّهِ وَمَلاَئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلاَلاً بَعِيدًا

The explanation:
(O believers [in Mohammed and the Quran],
believe in God and His messenger [Jesus] and the scripture [: the Gospel] which He revealed to His messenger [Jesus],
and the scripture [: the Ten Commandments] which He had revealed aforetime [to Moses].
Whoso unbelieves in God and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, has surely gone far, far astray.)


In the old times the priest was not arround the farmer and the hunter knew how to find and observe the instructions of the gods and he did exceedingly well to obey... Consequently we became victims of the priests



This is the danger of the priests when they pervert the word of God and rob the meaning of the word and exchange it for something contrary to the Commandment of God, and make it some enthusiasm, idolatry and association with God by glorifying the prophets and religious leaders making them some patrons for people instead of God alone as the Patron and Master.

Every man woman and sparrow could look upon the face of god and read the messages in the trees in the winds in the water and earth. Where has the word of god gone E A.?​


The word of God came to man, so that he may understand it; it is not revealed to be kept in the breast of the priests who see their people erring, and they stay silent fearing for their position and coveting for the money; therefore they support the tyrant and the oppressor, and assissted the association with God and enhanced the enthusiasm, and their people followed them.
 
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eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
After my grandmother died I had dreams about her. She seemed happy and fine. In one dream she even had a new car which is strange because she never did drive.
Does that mean she's really still alive? What kind of cars do they have in heaven? What's the speed limit?


To every material thing there is its ethereal or spiritual image which is identical with the material structure, and is its true copy.

After 40 days pass following the manufacturing or making of the material object, then its ethereal copy will be permanent and will not be destroyed afterwards.

This is applied to every material thing: the tree, the wall, the dress, the cup, the furniture, the animal has its spirit, and man has his soul.

But we don't know for what will cars in the spiritual world be used; and we do not know exactly all the properties of that world, but only generally speaking, then when we shall go to that world following our death, we shall see and know it exactly; because as if now we are in a primary school, then when we die we shall go to the secondary school or to the college where our knowledge will be superior and we shall know a lot of things then.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#The_Soul_after_Death_


 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
To every material thing there is its ethereal or spiritual image which is identical with the material structure, and is its true copy.


After 40 days pass following the manufacturing or making of the material object, then its ethereal copy will be permanent and will not be destroyed afterwards.

This is applied to every material thing: the tree, the wall, the dress, the cup, the furniture, the animal has its spirit, and man has his soul.

But we don't know for what will cars in the spiritual world be used; and we do not know exactly all the properties of that world, but only generally speaking, then when we shall go to that world following our death, we shall see and know it exactly; because as if now we are in a primary school, then when we die we shall go to the secondary school or to the college where our knowledge will be superior and we shall know a lot of things then.
http://man-after-death.site.io/#The_Soul_after_Death_



You've got to be joking, at least I hope you are, but if you're not, you should be a
script writer for the movies, you have a great imagination, and to make it even
better, you believe everything you imagine, good for the movies.