Fitna: A controversial short movie on Islam

[senorita]

This is the best way to scare the world. Make up lies, put together a movie and show it to the ignorant masses. Not like they'll ever question it. Disgusting. Every single second of this movie is false. The Quran says nothing of the sort.

Best quote yet that I've read on this topic:

If the peaceful followers of Islam had spent half as much effort protesting the acts of terrorism committed in the name of their religion as they do films like 'Fitna' and other works of critical expression, there would have been no need for the film.
Posted by:
wd6cmu 11:58 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/comments?type=story&id=4544952

I would just like to ask for some clarification here.

Muslims around the world do condemn the acts of terrorism. Unfortunately the media is NOT interested in giving them their 15 minutes of fame.

Secondly how many people who have posted in this thread protest and try t omake changes in issues such as:

child abuse
violence agasint women
rape
poverty
injustice
crime
ETC?

I am sure its easy for people to sit around and make idle comments. However as a Muslim, it ticks me off to see people sitting around contributing to wrong and false interpretations of Islam and making pathetic attempts at what we need to do fix it.

 

[gerryh]

I haven't read this thread since the begining....I just did now..... 2 comments


Bear.... when we do meet.... I'll give you the hug that Mikey offered in his stead, and one hell of one from me too. I can't really add anything beyond what Mikey and Zan have said to you. About all I can add is, "I" KNOW you have the strength.

Senorita, keep fighting the good fight of education. It may fall on deaf ears for those that are unwilling to learn, but if even one person hears you and changes their opinion..... it will all be worth it.

 

[Just the Facts]

I am sure its easy for people to sit around and make idle comments. However as a Muslim, it ticks me off to see people sitting around contributing to wrong and false interpretations of Islam and making pathetic attempts at what we need to do fix it.

That may well be but keep in mind that when people speak of moderates not condemning terrorism in the name of Islam, they're not talking about condemning it in the western media. They're not talking about a press release in the NY times or hosting an interfaith workshop with an anti-terrorism theme.

They're talking about directing the condemnation at the terrorists themselves. That's what appears to be lacking. We see incidents of violence and destruction being perpetrated in the name of Islam almost every day, but the most energetic protests, demonstrations and threats of boycott are directed at cartoons or movies deemed insulting to Islam. Are the terrorists not insulting to Islam when they claim the Koran as their justification? Where are the protests in the Muslim world against that? We don't see it. Instead we see Bin Laden being hailed as a hero.

That's what they're talking about when they say Muslims don't seem to condemn these acts. What I and people like me think doesn't matter. We are irrelevant. What matters is the Muslims who seem to think Islam demands the violence of them. Direct your condemnation at them, and better yet, at those who they would recruit. If Islam truly does condemn this violence.....correct them!

 

[Colpy]

I

am sure its easy for people to sit around and make idle comments. However as a Muslim, it ticks me off to see people sitting around contributing to wrong and false interpretations of Islam and making pathetic attempts at what we need to do fix it.

So, what in the movie was untrue?

Where was the Koran misquoted?

Is there some extenuating fact left out that would change the thrust of the quotes?

I'm willing to be educated..........but you have to do more than whine about how this shows a "wrong and false" interpretation of Islam.....

Did not the Prophet live by the sword, spreading Islam through war?

 

[Colpy]

I

So, what in the movie was untrue?

Where was the Koran misquoted?

Is there some extenuating fact left out that would change the thrust of the quotes?

I'm willing to be educated..........but you have to do more than whine about how this shows a "wrong and false" interpretation of Islam.....

Did not the Prophet live by the sword, spreading Islam through war?

I still await enlightenment.....

not that I'm surprized.

 

[MikeyDB]

Colpy

You've made your enlightenment obvious around here. It comes with that yarmulke you purchased at Steins Discount Headwear.

You've decided who's guilty of what and embrace the message of Zionists.

There's little if any balance in your perspectives on the issues and I suppose the formula of your adoptive masters has worked. Despite all the evidence that fundamental mistakes have been made in the Middle East and decades of supplying money to Islamist states who have maintained repressive and oppressive regimes for years....because we "need" their oil.....

Never mind...... you're convinced and there's little point in attempting to find reason and balance with anyone who's so adamantly convinced/selective in their perception.

 

[Just the Facts]

Never mind...... you're convinced and there's little point in attempting to find reason and balance with anyone who's so adamantly convinced/selective in their perception.

:lol: Translation: Sorry, we got nuthin.

 

[Zzarchov]

Attacks against the US are political in nature, if it was just religion why wasn't a full Church bombed instead, at least there you are sure to get as many 'Christians' as possible. A ship of war, in theory, shouldn't have Christians on board.

Side note, you've been in western mindset too long if you don't understand that for 95% of the world and over 99% of human history religion and politics are the exact same thing.

The US has seperation of Church and state, technically in Canada we are a religious nation (our rights are granted to us by god, read the charter). Most nations the church and state are intermingled and often the same.



As for the video, yes its propaganda, but really interesting take on Dutch culture.

Did anyone else notice how unusual it was for an extremist far right film to talk about the need to protect gays from harm?

Can you see an American Far Right Anti-Islam film talking about the need to protect America's homosexuals?

 

[senorita]

I

So, what in the movie was untrue?

Where was the Koran misquoted?

Is there some extenuating fact left out that would change the thrust of the quotes?

I'm willing to be educated..........but you have to do more than whine about how this shows a "wrong and false" interpretation of Islam.....

Did not the Prophet live by the sword, spreading Islam through war?

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:


"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious."
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

I hope that answers the question of whether Islam was spread by the sword.

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress limits (begin not hostility): For Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more persecution or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (Al-Baqarah:190-193)

The above means to fight for mankind. Not against mankind. You're not the only one around who believes in justice and freedom. We do too. We even believed in doing so hundreds of years .

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error; Whoever rejects Evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things." (Al-Baqarah: 256)"

I am sure you will misunderstand the above quotes. Words can not be taken at face value. They must be interepreted by the events that were taking place when the verse was revealed. The verse has to be related to the chapter of the Quran etc.

I'm quite busy, too much going on with life, will try to post when I have some time.

 

[s_lone]

I perceived the video as being anti-jihad and not anti-islam. The author asks muslims to rip out the pages of the Qur'an that ask them to use violence against the ''infidels'', and to keep the peaceful parts.

What is so wrong with that? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[lone wolf]

I am sure you will misunderstand the above quotes. Words can not be taken at face value. They must be interepreted by the events that were taking place when the verse was revealed. The verse has to be related to the chapter of the Quran etc.

That's the danger with all organized religion. Guidelines meant to be interpreted will be accepted as black and white by narrow-minded extremists of every Faith.

Woof!

 

[gerryh]

That's the danger with all organized religion. Guidelines meant to be interpreted will be accepted as black and white by narrow-minded extremists of every Faith.

Woof!

Or by those looking to blame rather than understand.

 

[wallyj]

The above means to fight for mankind. Not against mankind. You're not the only one around who believes in justice and freedom. We do too. We even believed in doing so hundreds of years .

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error; Whoever rejects Evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things." (Al-Baqarah: 256)"

And,pray tell,where does the blowing up of airplanes full of innocent Canadians fit into the 'religion of peace' and your concept of freedom and justice.

 

[zoofer]

Jonah on Fitna

.
.

Wilders' film could easily get him killed. It picks up the work of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was murdered in 2004 by a jihadi for criticizing Islam.
"Fitna" is provocative, but it has good reason to provoke. A cancer of violence, bigotry and cruelty is metastasizing within the Islamic world.
It's fine for Muslim moderates to say they aren't part of the cancer; and that some have, in response to the film, is a positive sign. But more often, diagnosing or even observing this cancer - in film, book or cartoon - is dubbed "intolerant," while calls for violence, censorship and even murder are treated as understandable, if regrettable, expressions of anger.
It's not that secular progressives support Muslim religious fanatics, it's that they reserve their passion and scorn for religious Christians who are neither fanatical nor violent.
The Darwin fish ostensibly symbolizes the superiority of progressive-minded science over backward-looking faith. I think this is a false juxtaposition, but I would have a lot more respect for the folks who believe it if they aimed their brave contempt for religion at those who might behead them for it.
Link

Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.

 

[zoofer]

Non-Muslims Are Never Innocent, They Are Guilty Of Denying Allah And His Prophet."
What could any infidel say to hurt the reputation of Islam worse than what Muslims like these say about their own faith?

"A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.
"Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet," the Imam says, according to the report. "If you don't believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain."
The lawyer, Anjem Choudary, backs up the Imam's position, saying that all Muslims are innocent.
"You are innocent if you are a Muslim," Choudary tells the BBC. "Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."

Note that this isn't some non-Muslim claiming that Muslims think a certain way; it's a Muslim imam, not in Saudi Arabia or Sudan, but in Britain, basically giving other Muslims the go ahead to rape and murder non-Muslims in the name of Islam.
Now, is this what the majority of Muslims across the world believe? Probably not. But, is it probably what, let's say, 10%, 15%, 20% of Muslims believe? Is this what the "We want Sharia, it's okay to use suicide bombers against Israel, and Osama Bin Laden is a good man" crowd thinks? Yes -- and incidentally, those percentages may look small, but when you consider that worldwide, there are roughly 1.3 billion Muslims, we're probably talking about 100 million to 250+ million Muslims who think this way.
Can we tell the Muslims who think like that apart from the majority of Muslims who don't agree with them? No, because Islamo-Fascists believe that Islam sanctions lying to non-believers. Moreover, members of the "honor killings and clitorectomies crowd", just like Abdul Makin and Anjem Choudary, often seem to end up in positions where they can influence and/or manipulate other Muslims into seeing things from their point of view. That's a dangerous situation because one radical Muslim running a mosque may create thousands of people who think the same way he does in a few years time -- and as we've seen time and time again, the moderate Muslims who stand up to people like this are the praiseworthy exceptions, not the rule.
So if, let's say, the beginning ratio of immigrants to a country is 4 moderate Muslims for every radical Islamist who thinks it's okay to do anything to people who aren't Muslims, I think Western nations, including America, need to start having a serious discussion about the unique risk posed by bringing in large numbers of Muslims immigrants.
http://rightwingnews.com/

***********************************
Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished
Tuesday, April 01, 2008

A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims — including killing and rape.
A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.
"Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet," the Imam says, according to the report. "If you don't believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain."
The lawyer, Anjem Choudary, backs up the Imam's position, saying that all Muslims are innocent.
Click here to watch the interview with Islamic lawyer Anjem Choudary.
"You are innocent if you are a Muslim," Choudary tells the BBC. "Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action.
"As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters," Choudary said. "I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim."
Click here to read the report from Islam Watch.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344409,00.html

Scary stuff.

 

[wallyj]

For more scary stuff go to www.religionofpeace.com ,this site tracks the atrocities committed by the 'religion of peace' throughout the world on a daily basis.

 

[senorita]

And,pray tell,where does the blowing up of airplanes full of innocent Canadians fit into the 'religion of peace' and your concept of freedom and justice.

It doesnt fit anywhere into the concept of the religion. :study:

That may well be but keep in mind that when people speak of moderates not condemning terrorism in the name of Islam, they're not talking about condemning it in the western media. They're not talking about a press release in the NY times or hosting an interfaith workshop with an anti-terrorism theme.

They're talking about directing the condemnation at the terrorists themselves. That's what appears to be lacking. We see incidents of violence and destruction being perpetrated in the name of Islam almost every day, but the most energetic protests, demonstrations and threats of boycott are directed at cartoons or movies deemed insulting to Islam. Are the terrorists not insulting to Islam when they claim the Koran as their justification? Where are the protests in the Muslim world against that? We don't see it. Instead we see Bin Laden being hailed as a hero.

That's what they're talking about when they say Muslims don't seem to condemn these acts. What I and people like me think doesn't matter. We are irrelevant. What matters is the Muslims who seem to think Islam demands the violence of them. Direct your condemnation at them, and better yet, at those who they would recruit. If Islam truly does condemn this violence.....correct them!

I agree with you to an extent. But human minds are not so simple neither are social rules.

Rallies about peace and justice are never shown in the media. But they do exist. Mind you, they're just never given any attention. Plus in the majority of mosques around the world, the sermons and speeches are about peace. The only thing is , again, nobody portrays those or brings them to attention. Hundreds of Muslims travel around the world , educating people about peace and justice and how Islam promotes all those....but I have NEVER seen them in the media.

It's different living as a Muslim. It's a lot different seeing them on TV, CNN, magazines and trashy tv shows.

It's rather disappointing too. Because we NEVER see Islam or Muslims portrayed in a postive light. Its a sad fact that one has to justify themselves on a daily basis living in Western countries....what is worse is that people are not willing to believe Muslims who know the facts...they'd rather stick to what is shown to them through the one sided media. The masses don't question...and it doesnt take much to convince certain people. It constantly shocks me that people believe the media so easily...they never ask for or expect a shred of evidence or proof.

As a Muslim, I don't think I owe the world any apologies. I don't have to make excuses, take the blame or correct anyone. I see my role as somebody who has some knowledge about Islam and who can teach those willing to learn. That's it, that's all. I think its easy for people to tell us to speak up, and apologise for those who commit wrong, but nobody is willing to understand that it's not us. It's a select few individuals who have sick minds and hearts. It doesnt have to do with Islam...it has to do with how those specific individuals are.

 

[gerryh]

very well said senorita

 

[gopher]

For more scary stuff go to www.religionofpeace.com ,this site tracks the atrocities committed by the 'religion of peace' throughout the world on a daily basis.

But bear in mind that Hitler committed his atrocities in the name of Christianity:

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."

 

[CDNBear]

There's no such thing as 'a select few' in Muslim violence.
**********

And gopher, that statement has been made by many a Mullah, as they preached death to all infidels.

Are you seeing the connection?