Maybe I was putting too much weight on the bad will and the bad feelings generated by Bush. McCain reminds me of that other old war hero that the Republicans dragged out a few years back....His name escapes me at the moment.
The next american president
- Thread starter Avro
- Start date
Juan
Isn't it revealing that Hollywood and war seem to be the incubator for American politics?
Ronny Raygun....Arnold the Barbarian....Jessie "The Body Ventura"....John McCain....John Kerry.....
Fantastic fabric from which to generate political policies....
And America wonders why they're in so much trouble....Not that they care mind you....
Isn't it revealing that Hollywood and war seem to be the incubator for American politics?
Ronny Raygun....Arnold the Barbarian....Jessie "The Body Ventura"....John McCain....John Kerry.....
Fantastic fabric from which to generate political policies....
And America wonders why they're in so much trouble....Not that they care mind you....
Hey Mikey!
I have a number of problems with your post.
First of all, you blame the USA for things not at all their responsibility.........when did the USA divide Hungary? Yugoslavia (the Balkans) has been a hotbed of ethnic violence for centuries.....hardly the fault of the USA. The Americans supported Kosovo with the best of intentions, which is indicative of THEIR naivete, not their ill-intent. As for Korea, I invite you to compare the US-backed south with the North.......
Vietnam was a disaster for the Americans.........they should never have gotten involved in what was a colonial war of independence........in that instance you are correct.
But here it is......people need to look at history with a longer view.........
The West is in decline. Inevitable, as we have only a small part of the world's population, and in ways a good thing, as we have consumed more than our fair share of the world's resources and have become obscenely rich.........
BUT......western civilization has offered much........freedom for its people, an opportunity to have a voice in their own government, freedom for people to indulge themselves with ideas in every sphere, technical, spiritual, political. I firmly believe western civilization has been the absolute apex of human development.
And the collapse of western civilization will mean a new Dark Age, as did the collapse of the Roman Empire. The worst violence, the most disasterous consequences are not those of the building of Empire, but those of their collapse.
If we want to temper our own decline, if we want to avoid an age of chaos, slaughter, and tyranny for our descendents, then we must act. Pulling our head into the shell will not work.
We must support the best of our future legacy.......democracy, freedom, rule of law, where ever it appears. Israel is an island of civilized democracy in a sea of medieval chaos. Therefore we must support Israel. Mistake or not, the removal of the lunatic dictator in Iraq is done.....we must stay until that nation stabilizes, and is established as a democracy, even if that means dividing it, creating a Kurdish nation, a Sunni nation, and a some shi'ite nation, and if it takes 100 years.
Likewise with Afghanistan.
China, the biggest threat, should be isolated economically and contained militarily.
And with whatever new conflict arises. We can not give an INCH to the barbarians, we have to solidify or own alliances.......and they should include only nations that believe as we do........
An alliance of the English-speaking nations would suit me wonderfully.........but an alliance of the free nations of the world would be better.
As power in the world slides inevitably eastward, we must do what we can to instill the best of what we are into the newly emerging dominant nations. We have had some successes.....Taiwan, Japan, India, South Korea spring to mind..........but far too many failures.
And that can not be achieved without the use of force in the world.
Plain and simple.
That is why I think John McCain is by far the best man offered for the job of (like it or not) leader of ther free world.
I have a number of problems with your post.
First of all, you blame the USA for things not at all their responsibility.........when did the USA divide Hungary? Yugoslavia (the Balkans) has been a hotbed of ethnic violence for centuries.....hardly the fault of the USA. The Americans supported Kosovo with the best of intentions, which is indicative of THEIR naivete, not their ill-intent. As for Korea, I invite you to compare the US-backed south with the North.......
Vietnam was a disaster for the Americans.........they should never have gotten involved in what was a colonial war of independence........in that instance you are correct.
But here it is......people need to look at history with a longer view.........
The West is in decline. Inevitable, as we have only a small part of the world's population, and in ways a good thing, as we have consumed more than our fair share of the world's resources and have become obscenely rich.........
BUT......western civilization has offered much........freedom for its people, an opportunity to have a voice in their own government, freedom for people to indulge themselves with ideas in every sphere, technical, spiritual, political. I firmly believe western civilization has been the absolute apex of human development.
And the collapse of western civilization will mean a new Dark Age, as did the collapse of the Roman Empire. The worst violence, the most disasterous consequences are not those of the building of Empire, but those of their collapse.
If we want to temper our own decline, if we want to avoid an age of chaos, slaughter, and tyranny for our descendents, then we must act. Pulling our head into the shell will not work.
We must support the best of our future legacy.......democracy, freedom, rule of law, where ever it appears. Israel is an island of civilized democracy in a sea of medieval chaos. Therefore we must support Israel. Mistake or not, the removal of the lunatic dictator in Iraq is done.....we must stay until that nation stabilizes, and is established as a democracy, even if that means dividing it, creating a Kurdish nation, a Sunni nation, and a some shi'ite nation, and if it takes 100 years.
Likewise with Afghanistan.
China, the biggest threat, should be isolated economically and contained militarily.
And with whatever new conflict arises. We can not give an INCH to the barbarians, we have to solidify or own alliances.......and they should include only nations that believe as we do........
An alliance of the English-speaking nations would suit me wonderfully.........but an alliance of the free nations of the world would be better.
As power in the world slides inevitably eastward, we must do what we can to instill the best of what we are into the newly emerging dominant nations. We have had some successes.....Taiwan, Japan, India, South Korea spring to mind..........but far too many failures.
And that can not be achieved without the use of force in the world.
Plain and simple.
That is why I think John McCain is by far the best man offered for the job of (like it or not) leader of ther free world.
Colpy
If you think for a moment that you can "contain" a standing miliary of two million...you must know something I don't....
Review your history Colpy ...google Trianon...and read how Britain and Woodrow Wilson cut up Europe...
With all the potential for peace that comes with living on a continent that hasn't suffered hundreds of years of war...as Europe has....in an environment that has more potential more facility to produce food and build technological advances under the security of plenty of water, limited population, abundant resources...the best we can and have come up with is we have to POLICE the rest of the world????
I'm sorry Colpy but the notion that the policies and ambitions of America and western societies in general are the benchmark of progress and prosperity doesn't wash....
While men women and children feed the apetities of the consumer societies of the west, we disenfranchise millions from the freedom and prosperity that's preserved for the slave-masters of western appetites. While funnelling billions to oppressive regimes in the name of petroleum dependency....while building and encouraging sweatshops ....while poluting the earth in the pursuit of "prosperity".... It's our political system and policies of consumption that underlie the majority of the strife conflict and inhumanity that plagues the species of mankind!
A wasted opportunity to translate values and morality and co-operation into actions in the name of all of humanity. How many more American troops and missile defense shields will it take to secure "peace"? How often will American business determine that sugar cane crops are worth more to American coffee drinkers than is the freedom and prosperity of the people of Haiti? How many more refineries and how much pollution is tolerable when species are being destroyed faster than ever before in recorded history? I suppose we'll have to disagree on this issue Colpy. With the industrial revolution came the opportunity to provoke and encourage prosperity for all and instead of that happenning the greed of mankind as most poignantly epitomized by a nation like America which practiced slavery to build its industrial wealth...that marginalized women to ensure that men had the upper hand in deciding which nation was next on the list of "resources" that would be needed to feed the greed of America.....
Edmund Burke said that for evil to succeed required only that good men do nothing....
For evil to succeed requires only that those who could do something for the world for the body of mankind but who choose to put their interests and themselves ahead of every other creature on this planet is an evil far worse than doing nothing.
If you think for a moment that you can "contain" a standing miliary of two million...you must know something I don't....
Review your history Colpy ...google Trianon...and read how Britain and Woodrow Wilson cut up Europe...
With all the potential for peace that comes with living on a continent that hasn't suffered hundreds of years of war...as Europe has....in an environment that has more potential more facility to produce food and build technological advances under the security of plenty of water, limited population, abundant resources...the best we can and have come up with is we have to POLICE the rest of the world????
I'm sorry Colpy but the notion that the policies and ambitions of America and western societies in general are the benchmark of progress and prosperity doesn't wash....
While men women and children feed the apetities of the consumer societies of the west, we disenfranchise millions from the freedom and prosperity that's preserved for the slave-masters of western appetites. While funnelling billions to oppressive regimes in the name of petroleum dependency....while building and encouraging sweatshops ....while poluting the earth in the pursuit of "prosperity".... It's our political system and policies of consumption that underlie the majority of the strife conflict and inhumanity that plagues the species of mankind!
A wasted opportunity to translate values and morality and co-operation into actions in the name of all of humanity. How many more American troops and missile defense shields will it take to secure "peace"? How often will American business determine that sugar cane crops are worth more to American coffee drinkers than is the freedom and prosperity of the people of Haiti? How many more refineries and how much pollution is tolerable when species are being destroyed faster than ever before in recorded history? I suppose we'll have to disagree on this issue Colpy. With the industrial revolution came the opportunity to provoke and encourage prosperity for all and instead of that happenning the greed of mankind as most poignantly epitomized by a nation like America which practiced slavery to build its industrial wealth...that marginalized women to ensure that men had the upper hand in deciding which nation was next on the list of "resources" that would be needed to feed the greed of America.....
Edmund Burke said that for evil to succeed required only that good men do nothing....
For evil to succeed requires only that those who could do something for the world for the body of mankind but who choose to put their interests and themselves ahead of every other creature on this planet is an evil far worse than doing nothing.
You're talking about Versailles? good Lord, man, Wilson should be your hero! A idealist, dedicated to the unity of man, helpless when faced with the realities..........and I'm amazed that you would be upset at the destruction of the Austro-Hungarian EMPIRE, which in essence STARTED the Great War with its expansionist tendencies......
So Mikey, you've walked into the trap. If western society is so useless, explain to me exactly WHERE and WHEN you would have been better off.....I mean with more liberty, more security of person, better taken care of.............This is a question that MUST be answered by those who constantly complain about THEIR civilization.......where and when did mankind build a better society on a large scale?
Not that I resent your criticism....we could do much better. In my original post, I mentioned our unequal share of resources.....etc.....and that is shifting, slowly.....
This is not to demean the passion or the principles of anyone here.
You ever notice that such passion and anger about things in the world are but a metaphor of how we are feeling inside ourselves ?
I'm going to run and duck for cover, because....
Well..
just because....
You ever notice that such passion and anger about things in the world are but a metaphor of how we are feeling inside ourselves ?
I'm going to run and duck for cover, because....
Well..
just because....
Because we (I as beneficiary of a great deal of western greed..) have prospered simply makes our experience the greatest reason...principle for studious introspection. Where else would I prefer to have been? Not a question that has an answer if we're talking about some nirvana isolated from the machinations of power wealth and greed...such a place doesn't exist. We could I suppose embrace the notion that "our way" is the "best way", that our "prosperity" is the result of having successfully chosen this "right way", but that would discount those millions who suffer for our "success". Sorry Colpy I'm not willing to do that. I'm not suggesting that we haven't and won't make mistakes, nor would it be reasonable to expect that from every other nation/peoples in the world, what I am suggesting is that our notion of achieving the desired "ends" regardless of the "means" has created an artificial imbalance that is and will be the source of greate conflict. We decided that some human beings wern't fully human...blacks and women for instance...we decided that might=right, we decided that some are entitled to "prosperity" and we can ignore and marginalize everyone and anyone else!
There's been a fundamental error in the perception of the human condition. No where is this fundamental error more grandly exposed and demonstrated than in those nations that are currently the wealthiest most "prosperous" nations on this planet.
You're free to strap on your unwavering allegiance to the government and zeitgeist of the Jewish state, while blaming everyone else for the cascade of events that resulted in that states creation. You're free to marginalize whomever you choose, but that formula doesn't work, hasn't worked and can never work. It can't work because there isn't some ideal Shangri La where some portion of the worlds population can escape to...we're all in this thing together.
We can build walls and your good friends in Israel seem to believe that's the route to go...or we can work to rectify this fundamental error that plagues humankind.
When "might" = "right" we've seen nations interferring, parcelling up the land of other people and building nation states based not on the interests or potential betterment of all of humanity, but for the continued "prosperity" of the few who are more than prepared to spend their "prosperity" and the prosperity of future generations on keeping the situation or condition of "prosperity" exclusive and regarded as entitlement. I may be entirely wrong, but if I am, the idea that greater capacity to move toward peace and prosperity comes at the point of a gun or through the bomb-bay sights of a plane carrying packaged-Hell, while the equation of humanity for a very long time...doesn't seem to have worked.
There's been a fundamental error in the perception of the human condition. No where is this fundamental error more grandly exposed and demonstrated than in those nations that are currently the wealthiest most "prosperous" nations on this planet.
You're free to strap on your unwavering allegiance to the government and zeitgeist of the Jewish state, while blaming everyone else for the cascade of events that resulted in that states creation. You're free to marginalize whomever you choose, but that formula doesn't work, hasn't worked and can never work. It can't work because there isn't some ideal Shangri La where some portion of the worlds population can escape to...we're all in this thing together.
We can build walls and your good friends in Israel seem to believe that's the route to go...or we can work to rectify this fundamental error that plagues humankind.
When "might" = "right" we've seen nations interferring, parcelling up the land of other people and building nation states based not on the interests or potential betterment of all of humanity, but for the continued "prosperity" of the few who are more than prepared to spend their "prosperity" and the prosperity of future generations on keeping the situation or condition of "prosperity" exclusive and regarded as entitlement. I may be entirely wrong, but if I am, the idea that greater capacity to move toward peace and prosperity comes at the point of a gun or through the bomb-bay sights of a plane carrying packaged-Hell, while the equation of humanity for a very long time...doesn't seem to have worked.
Are you talking about Bob Dole? That was too funny when he ran against Clinton in his second term run. He did not stand a chance against Bill.
About the bad will against Bush, it was already shown that although unpopular as he was he still managed to defeat Kerry by a bigger margin than he beat Gore. People may not have liked Bush but when you run a wealthy liberal from Massachusetts against a guy like Bush those are the results you will get.
the defeat of Kerry in the last election had nothing to do with the 'actual' differences
between the individuals.
The republican campaign machine moved in a way that was very scary. They hired 'so called' reputable veterans to lie about kerry's war record, and it worked.
Carl Rove is a genius, in a tactful way, as he gathered the evangelical votes by the
millions, and I wonder what they were promised, as, when bush was president, they
rose their 'pushy' heads on certain occasions against bush, as their agenda was not being
pushed, although Bush said he was told many things directly from god, so that, although
it was a farce, would have satisfied them. (I'm sure they didn't believe it either)
I'd take a wealthy liberal from massachusets any day, than a stupid rich boy, who was
brought along as a puppet, by the republican machine and pushed into office, to sound
like the 'real good guy' ,who anyone could have a beer with. What a joke.
Bush slid into the presidency in 2000 by a republican tie breaking supreme court justice,
and won the next one, cause the u.s. people bought into the lies and smear campaign
run by Carl Rove, and we will never know what really happened to the voting in Ohio
at the end of the count, will we.
between the individuals.
The republican campaign machine moved in a way that was very scary. They hired 'so called' reputable veterans to lie about kerry's war record, and it worked.
Carl Rove is a genius, in a tactful way, as he gathered the evangelical votes by the
millions, and I wonder what they were promised, as, when bush was president, they
rose their 'pushy' heads on certain occasions against bush, as their agenda was not being
pushed, although Bush said he was told many things directly from god, so that, although
it was a farce, would have satisfied them. (I'm sure they didn't believe it either)
I'd take a wealthy liberal from massachusets any day, than a stupid rich boy, who was
brought along as a puppet, by the republican machine and pushed into office, to sound
like the 'real good guy' ,who anyone could have a beer with. What a joke.
Bush slid into the presidency in 2000 by a republican tie breaking supreme court justice,
and won the next one, cause the u.s. people bought into the lies and smear campaign
run by Carl Rove, and we will never know what really happened to the voting in Ohio
at the end of the count, will we.
Oh come now. Do you think the Democratic campaigners are any different? How about the attempt to show a document about Bush's military record that stated he was incompetent through a recently found bad fitness report? You remember the one I am talking about that Dan Rather insisted was a fact and he was sticking to his story only to be found out that it was an absolute forgery. Both sides conduct smear campaigns. Just look at Hillary and Obama. Do you think John Kerry's daddy was any different than Bush's? Of course not. He was bred for politics by his father. He even filmed and reenacted his own faux heroics to be used for his political career.
Like I have said earlier, the Democratic Party will forever contest Presidential elections that they have lost as fraud. The have since the Reagan years when he beat Jimmy Carter. However last years Democratic sweep of both houses was on the level. No problems in Florida and Ohio that night. If Hillary or Obama win the White House the election will be fair, if they lose it will have been stolen from them.
The Dan Rather story was true, it was revealed much earlier than he bought it out
on the show. It's funny how certain 'forms' about his national guard duties were
missing. They found a way to discredit the story, as I knew they would. Bush was
a sad example of a national guard member. He was more interested in his own
weak livered cushy life, and his own selfish desires. I have never know in all my
life such a horrible display of ignorance at the helm of the u.s. as their president,
even including Nixen.
I wish so much that Al Gore would have finally won the 2000 election, as there would
have been NO iraq war, just the proper answer to afghanistan.
I feel so sorry for the americlan people right now, they have been dooped by the
bush presidency, with his cronies, and not a thought was given to them at all, just
the deep desire to go to war, to kill people, and pretend it was for the betterment
of the u.s. It will take a long time for the u.s. to gain some respect from most of
the world, and the Bush government did that to them.
How about the attempt to show a document about Bush's military record that stated he was incompetent through a recently found bad fitness report?
That was NOT circulated by the Dems. It was done by CBS News which is owned by the Republican Westinghouse Corp and Carlyle Group.
That was NOT circulated by the Dems. It was done by CBS News which is owned by the Republican Westinghouse Corp and Carlyle Group.
Future American President
The questions about Bush II military records was handled continually by Don Rumsfeld who was another slacker when serving his country. Both are brats from priviledged familes who bought them anything they wanted including a method to find and hide their respective service records. But Bush does qualify for veteran's benefits which irks me. There are many who left military service for some very legitimate reasons and are denied any benefits including burial in a National Cemetery. Bush wants to be buried at his Presidential Libray site at SMU and no doubt that will happen. Getting to the original question Hillary and Obama are ready to cancel each other out. The public is tired of hearing her PMS about Obama behavior and he says he doesn't have to live up to any of her expectations and even says she has no right to put any expectations on him or his campaign. I hope they both go down to defeat but McCain sure isn't much of a choice for us either.
The questions about Bush II military records was handled continually by Don Rumsfeld who was another slacker when serving his country. Both are brats from priviledged familes who bought them anything they wanted including a method to find and hide their respective service records. But Bush does qualify for veteran's benefits which irks me. There are many who left military service for some very legitimate reasons and are denied any benefits including burial in a National Cemetery. Bush wants to be buried at his Presidential Libray site at SMU and no doubt that will happen. Getting to the original question Hillary and Obama are ready to cancel each other out. The public is tired of hearing her PMS about Obama behavior and he says he doesn't have to live up to any of her expectations and even says she has no right to put any expectations on him or his campaign. I hope they both go down to defeat but McCain sure isn't much of a choice for us either.
The Dan Rather story was a complete and absolute fraud. How can you believe that it wasn't. The FitRep was shown to be done with a modern PC and the typeset used was that of a modern day font that was not even available. One of the many inconsistencies was the number 187 which was Bush's unit. The "187th" should have read as you see it typed here but in a Word Document it defaults the the small "th" next to and high up on the number 7. Typesets did not do that back in the early 70's. A forensic examiner said that the documents were forgeries in the investigation. It was proven to be done on "Word 2004" software. The spacing was identical and it was impossible for a 1970's era typewriter to be that consistent with Word 2004. The document source could not be verified and they were only copies as they were told the original documents were burned after they faxed them to the 60 Minutes investigators. How convenient. Why do you think Dan lost his job?
Again... you NEED to believe this story that it was true because of your hatred for Bush. Why let facts get in the way.
Now you can say what you want about Bush. That is not the issue...the issue is that the document was false and both sides engage in Smear Campaigning. Look at the latest Obama picture release scandal.
Yeah McCain, all the way.
And to pick on his looks that is low. That in no way as we all know has nothing to do with his qualifications. Tunnel vision, makes one judge a book by it's cover.
Tell me what was wrong with Trudeau's face, all those craters! In this case the cover did effect his qualifications, as they matched the holes in his head.
Hilary. Why would the US want a person running a country that cannot even run her own life properly. Forgiving her husband or standing by her man after what he did sends out the wrong message, it says stand by your man no matter what! Not good, shows no backbone to stand on your own, you are willing to settle. This is not presidential material.
And the other guy, being black is not enough, he is too much show, and not enough stay. But a better choice than Hilary. If she does miraculously win, I wonder if they will bring out the cuban cigars???????
And to pick on his looks that is low. That in no way as we all know has nothing to do with his qualifications. Tunnel vision, makes one judge a book by it's cover.
Tell me what was wrong with Trudeau's face, all those craters! In this case the cover did effect his qualifications, as they matched the holes in his head.
Hilary. Why would the US want a person running a country that cannot even run her own life properly. Forgiving her husband or standing by her man after what he did sends out the wrong message, it says stand by your man no matter what! Not good, shows no backbone to stand on your own, you are willing to settle. This is not presidential material.
And the other guy, being black is not enough, he is too much show, and not enough stay. But a better choice than Hilary. If she does miraculously win, I wonder if they will bring out the cuban cigars???????
Basically, I agree.
McCain is the man.....he has the character, has been tested in the fire, and passed with flying colours.
Hillary is simply unelectable.....
Obama increasingly appears to be "all hat, no cattle".
Colpy
The same regime (Republican) that trumped up hysteria over "Weapons of Mass Destruction" is the party you want running the Military Industrial Complex to our south?
Would you be as eaqally in favor of the United States taking over Canada as the water crunch evolves and America runs out of it?
There may be no avoiding nasty scenarios as the dehydration of this planet progressess but do you think it sound judgment to have someone prepared to shoot first and ask questions later as the man in control?
Hillary is olde-tyme politics for sure, and Obama has no credibility in terms of leadership, so the "race" is anxiety provoking to say the least, but we (well many) have little doubt about the first-choice of a man like John McCain when it comes to "foreign policy".....
Scary dude Colpy!
The same regime (Republican) that trumped up hysteria over "Weapons of Mass Destruction" is the party you want running the Military Industrial Complex to our south?
Would you be as eaqally in favor of the United States taking over Canada as the water crunch evolves and America runs out of it?
There may be no avoiding nasty scenarios as the dehydration of this planet progressess but do you think it sound judgment to have someone prepared to shoot first and ask questions later as the man in control?
Hillary is olde-tyme politics for sure, and Obama has no credibility in terms of leadership, so the "race" is anxiety provoking to say the least, but we (well many) have little doubt about the first-choice of a man like John McCain when it comes to "foreign policy".....
Scary dude Colpy!