absolutely. but, is or isn't genetics one of those materials? are border collies genetically prone to being obsessve compulsive and energetic? Are shelties genetically prone to being noisy? or aren't they? Because when someone suggested a dog could be genetically prone to aggression, the idea was shot down mighty quick, and dismissed as a stupid generalization. but shelties being noisy dogs was largely accepted with a chuckle and a heck yeah.
Beat this besti4lity thread if you can...
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absolutely. but, is or isn't genetics one of those materials? are border collies genetically prone to being obsessve compulsive and energetic? Are shelties genetically prone to being noisy? or aren't they? Because when someone suggested a dog could be genetically prone to aggression, the idea was shot down mighty quick, and dismissed as a stupid generalization. but shelties being noisy dogs was largely accepted with a chuckle and a heck yeah.
Where you are hoping for a black and white answer there is none.
The standard says there is no human aggression in the breed. There is some animal agression which needs to be effectively addressed by knowledgable owners. They make wonderful pets, great with children and poor guard dogs.
This doesn't mean some back yard breeder can't breed agressive dogs with agressive dogs in line and then raise them with a high level of aggression. But you can't paint the whole breed with that brush. Only a paticular breeders offspring. Usually the ones who get the bad press.
Border Collies are not genetically prone to obsessive compulsive disorders. When taken out of their working environment the "skills" they are bred with suddenly become a "problem". So, in this case as in the case of guard dogs,, be they personal or property the animal is removed from the environment it was bred for. Problems arise. It's a stupid human trick.
I thought the stupid generalization shot down was the notion that those dogs as a breed (pitbull types) were ever bred to be aggressive to humans. They weren't and there is a BIG difference between human aggression and animal aggression. It's the reason my rat terrier will go after small things, but isn't aggressive with people. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows that certain breeds are predisposed to certain behaviors and acts accordingly when choosing and raising a pet.
Border Collies are indeed genetically prone to obsessive behavior. That is their "skill". It's ideal for a working herder. And yeah, it's a positive trait until stupid humans take them out of a working situation and lock them in a yard or a house all day long. People are much of the problem, aren't they? People who get breeds they can't handle, don't know enough about, or don't take the time to train. It sucks, but, people are stupid, and are ultimately the ones who are responsible for the animals.
Have you ever seen a border collie herd kids? I have.
Have you ever seen a dog hump a person's leg, or jump a kid (as in the article that started this thread?).
Not all dogs draw a distinct line between humans and other animals, because not all dogs are raised around any other dogs or animals. Some dogs have only their 'pack', and it is the people they grew up with. To say that a modern domesticated dog draws those definite lines between people agression and animal agression seems a bit blind to me.
I would push for a further jump to any possession of an animal must be accompanied by a registered and licenced owner or certified agent. And that enforced rigorously.
That particular breed always has been bred to differentiate between human aggression and animal aggression. Those that didn't were euthanized. Pretty quick way to get the uncontrollable aggressive types out of the gene pool. Is it a 100% guarantee? No. You don't get a guarantee like that from any animal. Certainly there are those that will only love their pack though this is atypical of the breed, but that just means that the owner of a pitbull type dog has a more important responsibility in socializing their dog to encourage its natural tendency, which is to be friendly to every human it meets.
There are people who just shouldn't get pitbull type dogs. If they can't train it, socialize it and house it properly then they should be getting something else. I don't see why I should be banned from owning a dog when I can. We've had litterally dozens of pitbull types in our home since I was a child and had not one bite, not one attack. It wasn't just magic. It was the result of education, planning and work. People who aren't willing to put the effort into raising a properly behaved dog have no business getting one and I don't see why an entire breed should be punished for their stupidity when the vast majority of them live their lives as great pets. The breed as a whole scores better than Golden Retrievers on temperament tests. To judge the entire breed as unsound or aggressive considering that is just irrational.
Yeah ... I've seen a German Shepherd round up the kids and tell them "supper's ready" too. Any dog who knows his/her place in the pack will generally be content. It's people who get that "cute little puppy" - regardless of breed - then don't take the time to discipline it and help it to learn its place in the pack who don't deserve the honour of being in that dog's pack. The dog will dominate if allowed. As far as animal aggression goes - ALL animals will protect their territory. It's instinct - even among humans. Ever watched a Great Dane back off when a Schitzu told it "Get off my turf!" ... or a cat send a bear packing?
Wolf
I really don't see an easy solution either way tracy. They've been a proven problem in cities. They've been proven to be owned by dogfighters, drug dealers, and the lowest common denominator. I've seen footage of whitetrash house wives siccing these dogs on animal control officers, dogfighting rings using these animals up and breeding them to be as nasty as possible, even to the point where they can barely handle their own dogs. While you and your family are smart and know people who breed to good standard, the lowest common denominator DOES drag that reputation down with it. It's just the way it works.
I know bad people watch tv.
I know bad people use wrist watches.
I know bad people drive economical cars.
I know bad people go to church.
No one wants to do anything about the bad people though.
If we let the lowest common denominator decide what rights we all have, then things are going to be really bad.... Funny how the same mentality doesn't apply to guns, cars, painkillers, etc.
Oh, btw, we never bred dogs or got any from breeders though we know several. Ours were all rescues. Some had to be euthanized. Most were able to be rehabed and placed in homes.
OT, but this is actually a petpeeve of mine. Where I work, it seems like every policy we have is based on the lowest common denominator. It's gotten so bad that nurses now need a doctor's order to give a baby a tub bath. I'm sure there was some idiot nurse who gave a bath to a baby who couldn't tolerate it once, so now we are all assumed to be too stupid to make that decision. Even the docs find it silly. One of them looked at me like I was nuts when I asked for that order for one of my babies:lol:, but I follow the hospital's rules and made her put it in the computer orders for me anyways.
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:lol: My little dog actually goes to a dog sitter's place overnight when I work. The funniest thing I've ever seen is him (a less than 15lb, hairless dog) scaring the bejesus out of another dog, Parker (120lb young Great Dane) when Parker came to me for some attention. Needless to say my dog was disciplined for his behavior, but Parker still won't come to me.
There is the old saying: It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Yeah shouldn't equality be a factor in establishment of the lowest common denominator? Or is it that only what some people don't like should be outlawed?
you're comparing children being mauled to death, dogs being forced to beat eachother to death, and people using dogs as an attack weapon.... to tv watching. I don't think you warrant much conversation beyond that point.
So much bad press.... we always remember the bad. Lets look at what people who actually understand dogs have to say about bully breeds
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/popsicle.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/petaletter.html
And now from somebody who did some research.....a funny thing that...research....makes one understand the instrinsic nature of something. Then they're not surprised when the creature acts the way it's suppose to.
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/BSL.ACTION.KIT.html
And to those who've suggested that a dog has acted without provocation I suggest they just simply didn't know what the provocation was. To those who've suggested animals attack without warning I submit that they don't understand body language. Nothing responds without warning and provocation including the human being...It's against nature. Those that state it's happened prove by saying such they simply don't know what the reason was.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/popsicle.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/petaletter.html
And now from somebody who did some research.....a funny thing that...research....makes one understand the instrinsic nature of something. Then they're not surprised when the creature acts the way it's suppose to.
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/BSL.ACTION.KIT.html
And to those who've suggested that a dog has acted without provocation I suggest they just simply didn't know what the provocation was. To those who've suggested animals attack without warning I submit that they don't understand body language. Nothing responds without warning and provocation including the human being...It's against nature. Those that state it's happened prove by saying such they simply don't know what the reason was.