Six days that shook the world

[Just the Facts]

A closer read of the news reveals the rockets landed near the town of Shlomi, not actually the town of Shlomi itself.

:?: So? It's OK to kill civilians outside of Shlomi?

Here is a photograph of a target near the Israeli town of Shlomi:
Looks like a military target to me.

A picture of a gun near Shlomi is pretty flimsy evidence of anything.

The news is so distorted regarding this conflict, it wouldn't surprise me if the Israeli soldiers were captured on the Lebanese side of the border:

Can't argue with that. However, we do our best to sift through what's there.

What proof do you have that Hezbollah attacked civilian targets? How many civilians did Hezbollah kill in Shlomi and the Shebaa Farms that day?

Uh huh, so now it doesn't matter who was first, just who was more effective. Interesting.

But, anyway.

The conflict began after Hezbollah fired Katyusha rockets and mortars at Israeli border villages, diverting attention from another Hezbollah unit that crossed the border, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers and killing three others.[17]
http://www.answers.com/topic/2006-lebanon-war

In an unprovoked aggression across Israel’s internationally recognized border with Lebanon, Hezbollah terrorists launched a salvo of Katyushya rockets and mortar bombs into Israeli towns, farms and villages. Tens of thousands of residents of northern Israel have been forced into bomb shelters.
At the same time, Hezbollah terrorists crossed the border, and attacked an Israeli patrol killing three soldiers and kidnapping two more. Four more Israeli soldiers were killed when their tank apparently drove over a land mine. Hezbollah, which is a party in the Lebanese government, also fired rockets into seven northern Israeli towns resulting in injury to civilians.
http://www.minndakjcrc.org/Docs/Hezbollah%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Israel is threatening a heavy response following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by the group Hezbollah along the Lebanon-Israel border. The soldiers were seized after Hezbollah launched rocket attacks at Israeli border posts and a nearby town. Four Israeli civilians were wounded.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/12/145250

The conflict began when Hezbollah fired Katyusha rockets and mortars at Israeli border villages, diverting attention from another Hezbollah unit that crossed the Israeli border and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict
Hizbullah simultaneously launched Katyusha rockets against Israeli communities near the border. The IDF responded with Operation Change of Direction.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...n+Israel+and+Israels+response+12-Jul-2006.htm

How many soldiers were killed in these diversionary attacks? The attacks sound pretty diversionary. If only Israel's response across Lebannon had been as diversionary, maybe fewer Lebanese civilians would have died...

If only Hezbullah hadn't undertaken it's unprovoked warmongering attack against Israel, maybe NO Lebanese civilians would have died.

 

[earth_as_one]

My point is that Hezbollah probably did NOT target civilians that day. Its possible some civilians may have been injured unintentionally.

A picture of a tank near the town in question is definitive proof that military targets exist near this town. But I never claimed this specific tank was the target.

I also found this:

Amnesty International

Israel/Lebanon
Under fire: Hizbullah’s attacks on northern Israel

Introduction
On the morning of 12 July 2006, Hizbullah fighters (known as al-muqawama al-islamiyya, Islamic Resistance) crossed the border into Israel and attacked an Israeli patrol near the village of Zarit. A number of Israeli military vehicles and a tank got involved in the clashes, at the end of which Hizbullah fighters returned to Lebanon with two captured Israeli soldiers. Eight other soldiers were killed. At the same time Hizbullah carried out diversionary attacks along the border. Hizbullah officials told Amnesty International that no civilian was targeted on 12 July, although according to press accounts a number were injured in these other attacks.(1)

Hizbullah named its "Operation True Promise" after a "promise" by its Secretary General, Hasan Nasrallah, to capture Israeli soldiers in order to exchange them for Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared Hizbullah’s attack an "act of war" and promised Lebanon a "very painful and far-reaching response".

For the next month – until 14 August – a major military confrontation took place between Hizbullah and Israel. Israel’s "Operation Change of Direction" involved widespread attacks across Lebanon from land, sea and air, killing some 1,000 civilians. Hizbullah launched thousands of Katyusha and other rockets on northern Israel, killing 43 civilians....

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde020252006

By the time Hezbollah fired its first rocket at a civilian target, Israel had already killed more civilians than Hezbollah would kill during the entire dispute.

Also this from Israel's Haaretz

...Simultaneously with this ambush, Hezbollah also launched a diversionary attack: a barrage of mortar shells and Katyusha rockets on communities and IDF outposts in the western part of the border area. That assault wounded five civilians, though none seriously: Some were lightly wounded, and the others suffered from shock...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=737825

The more I read about these unspecified but not serious injuries, the more they sound exaggerated. So what injuries are we talking about? Someone suffering from shock resulting from loud noises?

 

[Zzarchov]

So wait, Israel spends money on high tech munitions and still accidentally hits civilians because rockets were fired out of a town "they are targeting civilians".

Hezzbollah fires blind rockets (because they are easier to build, making no effort to cut down on civilian risk) and hits a civilian town "because there might be Israeli's there" and they are not targeting civilians.

Your arguement seems to be based upon the word of Hezbollah and nothing more.


As for "none serious", Israel provides bomb shelters and have good medical care. Thus a piece of shrapnel ripping through your leg and leaving the muscle dangling and spewing blood is not serious (since you probably won't die in a first world nation from it).

 

[jimmoyer]

earth_as_one ? It appears you have established zionist abuse, but your critical examination of the hypocrisy and cynical manipulation of Palestine by its own leaders and fellow Arab countries is completely missing.

You wonder why all that Arab oil money didn't provide jobs, schools, a real education, infrastructure of water and sewer and roads and decent housing ?

You wonder why Jordan for almost 20 years insisted on not giving sovereignty to the Palestinians, instead treating them as refugees and not sovereign of the west bank from 1948 to 1967.

You wonder if the Arab world cynically gains benefit from this horrible tension ?

You wonder if the promotion of victim status as the everlasting status quo is good for their brothers and sisters ?

You wonder if a little kid goes and kicks a bigger kid's shins if that is an effective survival mechanism ?

You wonder why the Arabs leave it to the Jews to provide jobs for the Palestinians ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way both groups are so screwed until they both wish to start anew together. The real reality is that both would benefit by peace. Neither group will mature without the other after all this hell has passed.

Kicking the Jews out, or annihlating the zionist state will not make the Palestinian grow in wisdom, nor will the present state of bitterness and suspicion help.

The Jews have an awful lot of explaining to do after the initial decisions of the UN and Europe and America that set this country up.

You ought to read about the only Jew who got through to Truman who had a lot of prejudice against the jew.

 

[earth_as_one]

So wait, Israel spends money on high tech munitions and still accidentally hits civilians because rockets were fired out of a town "they are targeting civilians".

Hezzbollah fires blind rockets (because they are easier to build, making no effort to cut down on civilian risk) and hits a civilian town "because there might be Israeli's there" and they are not targeting civilians.

Your arguement seems to be based upon the word of Hezbollah and nothing more.


As for "none serious", Israel provides bomb shelters and have good medical care. Thus a piece of shrapnel ripping through your leg and leaving the muscle dangling and spewing blood is not serious (since you probably won't die in a first world nation from it).

Do you have any evidence which shows that the civilian injuries resulting from Hezbollah's diversionary attacks on July 12, 2006 were as severe as "shrapnel ripping through your leg" or are you just making that up? Please post a link.

I posted a link to a Haaretz news item which describes the Israeli civilian injuries that day as not serious.

...That assault wounded five civilians, though none seriously: Some were lightly wounded, and the others suffered from shock...

So where did you get the information that these civilians were wounded by shrapnel?

Also I'm not giving Hezbollah a free pass. Read what I've already written above:

eao:

...I'm not saying that everything Israel did was a violation of international law or war crimes and that everything Hezbollah did was not. In many cases Israel did use due diligence to limit civilian casualties. Hezbollah's rocket attacks on Israeli civilians are obvious violations of international law and war crimes...

But Hezbollah's crimes were in responce to Israel's crimes. Israel crossed the line first. No that's not an valid excuse, but context is important. Also if you are going to criticize Hezbollah for targetting civilians, you can't ignore Israel's previous attacks on civilians.

I have no problem with Israel using high tech weapons to target legitimate military targets as long as they use due diligence to avoid civilian casualties. In some cases Israel did that. But read the links I posted above to AI and HRW and repost once again below.

These organizations found that Israel deliberately bombed civilian targets of no military, strategic or tactical value. If you look at the timing of events, Israel deliberately bombed the Beirut airport and other civilian targets for over a day before Hezbollah officially fired their first rocket at a civilian target.

I don't understand why people are so willing to give Israel a free pass to escalate what was a minor border skirmish involving only military targets to include civilians.

When Israel escalated this conflict to include civilian targets, their adversaries pretty much had to respond in kind. If Hezbollah had not fired rockets at Israeli citizens, Israel would have had no incentive to stop killing Lebanese civilians and likely this battle would have lasted much longer killing even more innocent civilians. By the way, Hezbollah's hundreds of primitive rockets per day averaged just over one Israeli citizen casualty. Israel high tech attacks averaged more than 30 Lebanese civilian casualties per day. No doubt Israel could have killed many times that number and didn't. But that's beside the point.

My point is that Israel was first to deliberately attack innocent civilians in violation of the April Agreement. Now that the April Agreement no longer applies, all civilians will be fair game in the next battle in this war.

Fatal Strikes
Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon

Summary

This report documents serious violations of international humanitarian law (the laws of war) by Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in Lebanon between July 12 and July 27, 2006, as well as the July 30 attack in Qana. During this period, the IDF killed an estimated 400 people, the vast majority of them civilians, and that number climbed to over 500 by the time this report went to print. The Israeli government claims it is taking all possible measures to minimize civilian harm, but the cases documented here reveal a systematic failure by the IDF to distinguish between combatants and civilians.

Since the start of the conflict, Israeli forces have consistently launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military gain but excessive civilian cost. In dozens of attacks, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some cases, the timing and intensity of the attack, the absence of a military target, as well as return strikes on rescuers, suggest that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians.

The Israeli government claims that it targets only Hezbollah, and that fighters from the group are using civilians as human shields, thereby placing them at risk. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack....

http://hrw.org/reports/2006/lebanon0806/index.htm

Israel/Lebanon:
Evidence indicates deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure

...."Israel’s assertion that the attacks on the infrastructure were lawful is manifestly wrong. Many of the violations identified in our report are war crimes, including indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks. The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of power and water plants, as well as the transport infrastructure vital for food and other humanitarian relief, was deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy," said Kate Gilmore, Executive Deputy Secretary General of Amnesty International.

The Israeli government has argued that they were targeting Hizbullah positions and support facilities and that other damage done to civilian infrastructure was a result of Hizbullah using the civilian population as a "human shield".

"The pattern, scope and scale of the attacks makes Israel's claim that this was 'collateral damage', simply not credible," said Kate Gilmore, Executive Deputy Secretary General of Amnesty International....

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE020182006

A question to consider is "Why did Israel up the ante to include cowardly/illegal attacks on civilian targets?" I think its because Israel realized they couldn't defeat Hezbollah on the battle field.

 

[earth_as_one]

earth_as_one ? It appears you have established zionist abuse, but your critical examination of the hypocrisy and cynical manipulation of Palestine by its own leaders and fellow Arab countries is completely missing.

You wonder why all that Arab oil money didn't provide jobs, schools, a real education, infrastructure of water and sewer and roads and decent housing ?

You wonder why Jordan for almost 20 years insisted on not giving sovereignty to the Palestinians, instead treating them as refugees and not sovereign of the west bank from 1948 to 1967.

You wonder if the Arab world cynically gains benefit from this horrible tension ?

You wonder if the promotion of victim status as the everlasting status quo is good for their brothers and sisters ?

You wonder if a little kid goes and kicks a bigger kid's shins if that is an effective survival mechanism ?

You wonder why the Arabs leave it to the Jews to provide jobs for the Palestinians ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way both groups are so screwed until they both wish to start anew together. The real reality is that both would benefit by peace. Neither group will mature without the other after all this hell has passed.

Kicking the Jews out, or annihlating the zionist state will not make the Palestinian grow in wisdom, nor will the present state of bitterness and suspicion help.

The Jews have an awful lot of explaining to do after the initial decisions of the UN and Europe and America that set this country up.

You ought to read about the only Jew who got through to Truman who had a lot of prejudice against the jew.

J,

I suppose I could post what people already know, but what would the point? I'm trying to post information people don't know, to prove that what we think we know about this conflict is more a result of spin and manipulation rather than objective accurate reporting of all the facts.

I try find the details our news selectively omits and post them. I consider myself successful if more people become skeptical of our media rather than convincing anyone of anything.

In general, most Arabs and Muslims in general are pissed that their leaders neglect Palestinians and ignore their suffering. But they also resent being burdened with millions of nationless refugees resulting from the UN's decision to create Israel and Israel's decision to cleanse Palestine of non-Jewish Palestinians.

Muslim and Arab nations voted against creating Israel. They fought against Israel's ethnic cleansing. They have repeated raised Israel's ethnic cleansing at the UN. Despite all their efforts to prevent this problem and fight against it, you believe they are responsible for the millions of Palestinian refugees. That doesn't make sense.

Why aren't the nations which decided to create Israel responsible for the consequences of that decision???

Why isn't Israel responsible for the consequences of its decision to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians???

By the way, the decision of Zionists to cleanse Palestine of non-Jews was made long before it started in 1947:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story694.html

Yet despite Zionist plans to ethnically cleanse Palestine of non-Jews to create a pure Jewish state, the UN voted to create Israel in 1948 anyway, even though Zionists had already began their ethnic cleansing campaign.

Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign isn't over. Israel has never stopped its efforts to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians. Do you believe that once Israel has incarcerated every Palestinian in the occupied territories behind walls and guard towers on remnants of Palestine that Israel doesn't want, that Israel's leaders will stop there?

Isn't it more likely that once non-Jewish Palestinians have been cleansed off every part of Palestine Israel wants, Israel's leaders will then turn their attention to their non-Jewish Israeli citizens?

Johann Hari: Ethnic cleansing returns to Israel's agenda
The silence over Lieberman's appointment is a bleak sign of how far Israel has drifted to the right

...Avigdor Lieberman has joined the governing coalition in Israel - in the lofty position of Deputy Prime Minister...

...His party, Yisrael Beytenu (Israel, Our Home), has campaigned on two ugly issues. The first is the claim that Israel's two million Arab citizens are "a danger to the country", to be dispensed with, in part, by ethnic cleansing. Lieberman wanted to bus thousands of released Palestinian prisoners to the Dead Sea and drown them....

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article1963583.ece

The Logistics of Transfer

E. Israel's Actions in Yesha and the relocation itself

...the first step is the destruction of Arafat's regime and the annexation of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The Arabs must be led to understand that these lands are an inseparable part of the Jewish state forever....

...The word "erased" very precisely reflects the force of Israel's response. The Arabs residing there will be evicted without compensation, all houses and buildings completely demolished, and the settlement itself, with the help of bulldozers and any other necessary equipment, will be leveled into a large field...

...any attempts by Arab countries to militarily interfere with Israel's actions will be considered by the Jewish state to be acts of aggression, and will be followed by a massive Israeli military response, as well as the immediate expulsion of all the Arabs from western Eretz Yisrael...

...For Israel, the goal is her own long-term stable survival as a Jewish state, for which she must be guaranteed a perpetual Jewish majority as well as secure borders...

...The only realistic way to achieve all these goals is to resettle the Palestinian Arabs out of western Eretz Yisrael into other Arab states...

...the transfer solution is not just the only possible solution, but is also substantiated by the Torah...

...Eretz Yisrael is God's bedroom where He interacts with the Jews, His chosen people, and where others do not belong. They have no business being involved in the relationship between God and the Jewish people...

http://gamla.org.il/english/article/2002/july/b1e.htm

Eventually Israel's leaders will seek a "final solution" to the "Palestinian question".

Does the above remind you of anything?

AUSCHWITZ AND THE "FINAL SOLUTION OF THE JEWISH QUESTION"

According to the racial ideology, National Socialism saw Jews as the main foes of the German people. The Laws of Nuremberg, enacted in 1935, refused Jews admittance to German citizenship and forbad any marriage between Jews and Germans ("Law to protect German Blood"). At first, Jews were deported as "undesirable aliens" or sent to internment camps. In the so-called "Cristal Night", November 9, 1938, some 30.000 Jews were deported to concentration camps...

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/AUSCHWITZ/HTML/Endloesung.html

When Jews were being demonized and persecuted by the Nazis, the world turned its back and ignored them. Look where that led.

I can see many parallels between what happen then to Jews and what is going on now to Palestinians. In effect Palestinians have become the new Jews.

 

[Zzarchov]

You know that an Airport, even if you dub it "civilian" is a Valid military target right? As are bridges and power stations.

If Lebanon did not wish to be targeted, it must excersize sovereignty (meaning it has to be responsible for all armed forces in its lands) it refuses/is unable to disarm hezbollah so it is responsible for the actions of hezbollah.

Hezbollah ships weapons in through that airport and has troops run over those bridges (did you see clearly marked "military bridges" that were used by hezbollah? I didn't, because they just used civilian bridges).

Anything used by armed forces (including power) becomes a legitimate target.



Do you know what lightly wounded means? Non-life threatening. Anything non-life threatening (which in a first world nation is alot) is "lightly wounded".

Bumps, scrapes and minor flesh wounds (like a clean bullet wound) are "superficial injuries".

So if you are claiming this is "no big deal" lets see what those injuries were, lets see some medical reports? Do you have any? or are you just "assuming" that Hezbollah bombs going off in a suburb can't actually hurt anyone as they are filled with candy?

Bombs cause massive damage, no matter who fires them, Israeli or not.

 

[earth_as_one]

eao:
I don't understand why people are so willing to give Israel a free pass to escalate what was a minor border skirmish involving only military targets to include civilians.

Shouldn't the UN, our leaders, the news... someone have roasted Israel for crossing this line first? Nope not a word criticizing Israel. Bombing Beirut airport was a "measured response", we were told.

Sure, airports can be military targets. For example if they are being used to launch military aircraft. How big is Hezbollah's airforce? How many fighters taking off from Beirut airport did Hezbollah put in the air? How many bombs did Hezbollah warplanes drop on Israel??? Unless Israel had good evidence that Hezbollah was using the Beirut airport to attack Israel, then they don't have any right to bomb.

Also I've heard the Israeli justification for bombing the Beirut airport. If I remember they calim they had to make sure Hezbollah didn't use Beirut airport to smuggle the captured Israeli soldiers out of Lebanon. What a load of BS! That whopper defies common sense. You can walk from Lebanon to Syria. Besides its unlikely Hezbollah would attempt to smuggle anything by air while Israeli fighters dominate Lebanese airspace. Most likely the Israeli soldiers are still in Hezbollah custody in Lebanon. They intend to swap these prisoners for Israel's prisoners. Why would they smuggle them out of the country.

Any idiot could see Israel's justification for bombing the Beirut airport was BS. Yet our leaders called it a "measured response".

Here is Al Jazeera's timeline:

July 12

The funeral of Sgt Nimrod Cohen, killed in Lebanon on12 July ​

Hezbollah fighters seize two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. Three Israeli soldiers are also killed in the attack.
It says it will release them if Israel frees Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.
"Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance ... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine," a Hezbollah statement said.
Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister, said the attack was an "act of war" by Lebanon and said he would make the country pay a "heavy price".

Later that day, Israel launches a small cross-border raid in the area where the two soldiers were abducted. Hezbollah destroyed one Israeli tank, killing its four-man crew. Another Israeli was killed in an operation to recover the tank.

"If the soldiers are not returned, we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years"
Lt-Gen Dan Halutz​

"This affair is between Israel and the state of Lebanon," Major-General Udi Adam, head of Israel's Northern Command says. "Where to attack? Once it is inside Lebanon, everything is legitimate - not just southern Lebanon, not just the line of Hezbollah posts."

Lieutenant-General Dan Halutz, Israel's chief of staff, says: "If the soldiers are not returned, we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."
On June 27 Hamas, an armed Palestinian group, had kidnapped an Israeli soldier in a cross-border raid from Gaza. Hamas demanded that Israel release Palestinian prisoners.

• Hezbollah captures Israeli soldiers
• Israeli troops enter Lebanon
• Lebanon 'not aware' of Hezbollah plan

July 13

Firefighters tackle a blaze at Beirut on July 13​

Israeli jets bomb the runway of Lebanon's only international airport, the Rafiq Hariri Airport in Beirut, at dawn. The airport is closed and flights are diverted.

Israel announces an air and sea blockade of Lebanon, and says that Hezbollah will not be allowed to return to its former position along the border.

Israeli aircraft attack what it says are Hezbollah targets across southern Lebanon. The raids kill 35 Lebanese civilians.

Hezbollah fires rockets that hit towns in northern Israel, including Nahariya and Safed. Two civilians are killed.

• Scores killed as Israel strikes Lebanon
• Israeli strikes kill 40 in Lebanon
• Anxiety weighs down Beirut

http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=24660

Seems pretty clear Israel intended from the start to hit civilian targets. This article speculates that Israel was planning to invade Lebanon. Hezbollah's raid just pushed the timetable ahead.

Perspective on the 2006 Israel-Lebanon Conflict
By Dave Dionisi, July 26, 2006
The first casualty of war is the truth. For this reason it is important to provide some clarity regarding the latest Middle East conflict. The short version is Iran's August 22nd deadline for a uranium enrichment response is expected to disappoint the US and Israel. As a result, the conflict we now see is to cut off what Israel perceives are the two arms of Iran (i.e., Hamas and Hezbollah).

While the book American Hiroshima elaborates in detail why this is happening, it is important to revisit what has happened since July 12th. In addition, I must note that war is rarely started by a single event. The seeds for war are often the product of many events that precede the actual use of military aircraft, tanks and ships. The BBC has an excelent timeline of events leading up to this conflict.

A key fact in determining what is going on is to look at is the number of civilians killed and held in prison by each side. Israel's position that a single soldier being held captive by the Palestinians, or two soldiers being held by Hezbollah is an act of war cannot be taken seriously when Israel is simultaneously holding thousands of captured Palestinians. The mainstream media conveniently fails to mention this point. The cross-border dimension of the kidnapping may also be distorted by the mainstream media as from what I can tell Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev (the Israeli soldiers) were captured near Ayta al-Sha'b which is actually in Lebanon. When we remember that the first casualty of war is the truth and this war is about something far more than soldiers being kidnapped, then we should not be surprised by the distortions of the truth to create war propaganda. History is also helpful and in 1998 Amnesty International wrote "By Israel's own admission, Lebanese detainees are being held as bargaining chips; they are not detained for their own actions but in exchange for Israeli soldiers missing in action or killed in Lebanon. Most have now spent 10 years in secret and isolated detention."

Another source of sanity during war is the United Nations. Regardless of what individuals may think about the UN, this organization has an impressive track record of correctly identifying who has started a war and when a war is violating international law. The US is unfortunately on the wrong side of this litmus test with respect to invading Iraq and Israel is on the wrong side with respect to invading Lebanon (see the comments by UN official Jan Egeland in the article Israel Breaks Humanitarian Law).

In brief, what has happened is Hezbollah initiated Operation Truthful Promise on July 12, 2006. This was not an act of war but a plan to capture Israeli soldiers to swap them for three Lebanese held by Israel. Israel used the event to launch Operation Just Reward, which was interestingly renamed Operation Change of Direction. My sense is the Israeli and US leadership renamed the operation when they concluded the July 12 events provided the cover story to go after Hamas, Hezbollah and produce an incident to justify war with Iran. The bombing attacks then starting on July 13 and hundreds of civilians have been killed. July 13 is the formal beginning point for the start of the war. Israel also invaded Lebanon soon after the air attack began although Israel reports the invasion started on July 23 (which is more likely the date the US and British Special Forces became actively involved in joint operations with Israeli Special Forces). In any event, Israel desired an event to use as an excuse to attack both Hamas and Hezbollah and so far the American people are still fooled by the mass media....

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2006/07/26_Dionisi_lebanon.htm

 

[Zzarchov]

35 dead from bombing raids in a third world nation from attacks from a first world powers are a clear indication (clear as possible) Israel did not choose to hit civilians. If a first world power targeted civilians, the death toll would be in the tens of thousands from a single days bombing.

But wait? Didn't Hezbollah only Kill 2? Yep, thats doesn't mean they weren't trying to kill civilians. They are an outnumbered third world nation (with blind weapon systems) firing at a first world nation (with proper bomb shelters and the worlds best medical system).



So far all I see in that report is that transportation hubs used by Hezbollah (as it did not create an use a second set of military airports, ports and roads but instead chose to use civilian ones). Those are legitimate military targets.

I could be wrong, show me the seperate bridges, ports and airports Hezzbolla used to move its fighters around to combat zones? The ones it used to ship weapons to the front? Please, show some.

 

[earth_as_one]

I would say any bridges linking Hezbollah units fighting in southern Lebanon were fair game. But Israel bombed bridges across Lebanon.

Compare the area of conflict with the locations Israel bombed:

As far as I can tell, the only people affected by Israel's decision to bomb the Beirut airport were civilians, most of whom were foreign tourists. I never heard anyone claim that the Beirut international airport is really a Hezbollah base of operations. Is that what you are saying? Do you have any evidence which shows Israel hit Hezbollah assets at the Beirut airport? link please.

As far as I can tell, Israel's strike on the Beirut airport did not affect Hezbollah.

 

[earth_as_one]

...Israel's Chief of Staff Dan Halutz stated Israel's illegal intention even more bluntly: "We will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years" -- a statement that evokes memories of the threat once verbalised by former US secretary of state James Baker III to bomb Iraq "back into the Stone Age" in 1991.

The head of Israel's Northern Command, Udi Adam, also confirmed plans for grossly disproportionate, and evidently pre- meditated, attacks: "Once it is inside Lebanon, everything is legitimate -- not just southern Lebanon, not just the line of Hizbullah posts."...

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/829/op56.htm

So how do you interpret "We will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years" and "Once it is inside Lebanon, everything is legitimate -- not just southern Lebanon, not just the line of Hizbullah posts."

I interpret those statements made by Israeli generals on July 12, 2006 as a deliberate intention to bomb civilian targets. How do you interpret those statements?

The map above shows these generals made good on their threats.

 

[Zzarchov]

Then Im afraid you need a course in warfare.

The place you should be putting the least emphasis on in any firefight is the frontline. That causes a long grueling war that causes massive casualties on you. Thats why it was abandoned after WW1 (with better airpower).

You hit the lines in the back to prevent the supply of men and material needed to keep the war going from reaching the front.

That means you need to hit the Airports and Sea Ports used to ship in weapons from outside the nation, and the roads used to ship Hezbollah fighters who were in reserve in the rear of the country from reaching the front and putting up a stiff resistance.

Again, if Hezbollah wanted to keep civilian targets safe it should have kept them just that, civilian targets, and not used them. Nothing stops hezbollah from building its own purely military airbase and naval base and travel routes, other than when Israel bombs them it can't show pictures of those caught in the crossfire to the world press.

The rules of war are very clear, those casualties are officially the fault of Hezbollah. Israel doesn't need to take half the care it does to avoid casualties, but it does anyways. Thats how you know it isn't targeting civilians, it goes out of its way to reduce the number of civilian deaths.

True it may be for purely self-serving reasons, (Bad PR does more damage to their external funding than Hezbollah could do with a thousand rockets to their economy), never the less, it means they aren't directly targetting civilians.

 

[Unforgiven]

Then Im afraid you need a course in warfare.

The place you should be putting the least emphasis on in any firefight is the frontline. That causes a long grueling war that causes massive casualties on you. Thats why it was abandoned after WW1 (with better airpower).

You hit the lines in the back to prevent the supply of men and material needed to keep the war going from reaching the front.

That means you need to hit the Airports and Sea Ports used to ship in weapons from outside the nation, and the roads used to ship Hezbollah fighters who were in reserve in the rear of the country from reaching the front and putting up a stiff resistance.

Again, if Hezbollah wanted to keep civilian targets safe it should have kept them just that, civilian targets, and not used them. Nothing stops hezbollah from building its own purely military airbase and naval base and travel routes, other than when Israel bombs them it can't show pictures of those caught in the crossfire to the world press.

The rules of war are very clear, those casualties are officially the fault of Hezbollah. Israel doesn't need to take half the care it does to avoid casualties, but it does anyways. Thats how you know it isn't targeting civilians, it goes out of its way to reduce the number of civilian deaths.

True it may be for purely self-serving reasons, (Bad PR does more damage to their external funding than Hezbollah could do with a thousand rockets to their economy), never the less, it means they aren't directly targetting civilians.

You know I've been thinking about this and I'm starting to think it's exactly backward. Civilians should be the first and primary target in all wars. Maybe then it would be a priority to protect your civilian population rather than hide among them, and countries like ours would do some extra considering before rushing off to war in some other country.

 

[Zzarchov]

Thats when people launch wars against people who don't fight back and refuse to accept surrender. Its also known as genocide.

 

[Unforgiven]

Thats when people launch wars against people who don't fight back and refuse to accept surrender. Its also known as genocide.

While I suppose that is true doesn't it also leave them open for attack themselves?

 

[Just the Facts]

I don't understand why people are so willing to give Israel a free pass to escalate what was a minor border skirmish involving only military targets to include civilians.

Because Israel is sick and tired of these "border skirmishes". You say that like it's par for the course for neighbouring countries to attack each other every couple of years. Israel pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 on the understanding that there would be no more aggression. Six years later, still "border skirmishes". It's not like it was the first incident in six years. Enough is enough.

Israel has had enough, and I don't blame her.

When Israel escalated this conflict to include civilian targets, their adversaries pretty much had to respond in kind.

Undaunted repetition will not make that true. It's been demonstrated in this thread quite clearly that Hezboallah attacked civilian targets, or at very least paid wanton disregard to avoiding civilian targets, from the get go.

Let it go.

My point is that Israel was first to deliberately attack innocent civilians in violation of the April Agreement. Now that the April Agreement no longer applies, all civilians will be fair game in the next battle in this war.

See above. The fact that they didn't actually kill civilians, doesn't negate that they targeted them.
I bet Israel will not attack civilians, even if they're declared "fair game". Hezbullah will, and has. And is proud of it.

A question to consider is "Why did Israel up the ante to include cowardly/illegal attacks on civilian targets?" I think its because Israel realized they couldn't defeat Hezbollah on the battle field.

Funny how when Hezbullah attacks, it's a military operation. The countries are at war, after all. When Israel responds, it's a war crime. Sorry, but when you attack a country, especially a country that has a zillion times the military wherewithall that you have, good advice would be to stay away from the airport.

 

[earth_as_one]

You know I've been thinking about this and I'm starting to think it's exactly backward. Civilians should be the first and primary target in all wars. Maybe then it would be a priority to protect your civilian population rather than hide among them, and countries like ours would do some extra considering before rushing off to war in some other country.

Killing civilians is easy. They are soft targets with no real strategic value. Deliberately targetting civilians and civilian infrastructure isn't only cowardly and dishonorable, it is also a war crime.

In modern warefare there is no need to target civilians except as a tactic similar to holding civilians hostage or using civilians as human shields.

...Israeli tanks withdrew only late last night from the courtyard of Beit Jala's Lutheran church, after holding hostage some 50 Palestinian orphans - confined to one room without food and drink - for a whole day. Also last night, Israeli forces entered the mosque located next to the church, using it as a military position since then. Since yesterday morning, Muhammad Hassan al Masheikheh and his family counting 20 members have been forced to share their home on the northern edge of Aida refugee camp with a dozen of Israeli soldiers who took position in their house. Efforts by the camp residents in coordination with the ICRC and UNRWA to obtain the release of the family have so far remained futile. This morning, Israeli bulldozers destroyed the adjacent wall of the Armenian monastery, and prepared new access roads towards the camp for army vehicles....

http://www.badil.org/Publications/Press/2001/press195-01.htm

20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun
B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.

After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings...

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp

09/03/2007

B'Tselem: IDF used Palestinian girl as human shield in Nablus

By Reuters

Israel Defense Forces soldiers used an 11-year-old Palestinian girl as a "human shield" during an operation against militants in the West Bank town of Nablus last week, an Israeli human rights group said on Thursday.

The IDF said it was checking the information from the B'Tselem group, which monitors Israeli actions in the occupied territory. Israeli law bans the military from using human shields.

B'Tselem said the girl, Jihan Daadush, told its interviewers that IDF soldiers had entered her family home and questioned her and her relatives about the whereabouts of gunmen who had fired at them during the raid.


The soldiers, she said, threatened to arrest her unless she led them to a nearby house.

"[A soldier] ordered me to go towards the house," B'Tselem quoted the girl as saying. "Three soldiers walked behind me. When we reached the house, there were a lot of soldiers. The soldiers ordered me to go inside the house and I went inside."

B'Tselem said Jihan told them the soldiers shone flashlights and asked about the rooms of the house. There was no mention in the report of whether troops found militants inside. The girl said two soldiers then returned her home.

"[One of the soldiers] told me, 'Thank you, but don't tell anyone,'" the girl said, according to B'Tselem. "I was afraid they would kill me or put me in jail. I am still afraid the soldiers will invade the city again and take me away."

B'tselem also said the army had used a 15-year-old Palestinian boy and a Palestinian man for a similar purpose during the five-day raid of Nablus, a militant stronghold.

The IDF ended the operation on March 1. During the incursion, troops shot dead a Palestinian civilian who had observed the raid from his rooftop. Soldiers also detained 11 suspected militants.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/834937.html

Bombing Beirut Airport last year was about as brave and honorable these other IDF activities.

 

[Zzarchov]

Wow, You completely ignored the many posts that refute your claim

And jump to one looney preaching genocide, which Im starting to believe might just be another account of yours by how convenient it was

 

[earth_as_one]

Because Israel is sick and tired of these "border skirmishes". You say that like it's par for the course for neighbouring countries to attack each other every couple of years. Israel pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 on the understanding that there would be no more aggression. Six years later, still "border skirmishes". It's not like it was the first incident in six years. Enough is enough.

Israel has had enough, and I don't blame her.


Undaunted repetition will not make that true. It's been demonstrated in this thread quite clearly that Hezboallah attacked civilian targets, or at very least paid wanton disregard to avoiding civilian targets, from the get go.

Let it go.


See above. The fact that they didn't actually kill civilians, doesn't negate that they targeted them.
I bet Israel will not attack civilians, even if they're declared "fair game". Hezbullah will, and has. And is proud of it.


Funny how when Hezbullah attacks, it's a military operation. The countries are at war, after all. When Israel responds, it's a war crime. Sorry, but when you attack a country, especially a country that has a zillion times the military wherewithall that you have, good advice would be to stay away from the airport.

Beirut International Airport is not and never was Hezbollah base. No aircraft departing this airport have ever attacked Israel. Hezbollah did not launch any rockets from here. Israel's attack on Beirut airport in northern Lebanon had no impact on Hezbollah operations along Lebanon's southern border with Israel. Unless someone has some proof that Beirut International Airport was a military base of some sort, then you will have to admit this incident is yet another example of Israel attacking civilian targets.

Israel's purpose in attacking purely civilian targets across Lebanon last year was an attempt to collectively punish Lebanese civilians and destroy their economy. Those actions are war crimes.

Wow, I can't believe how distorted your perceptions are regarding Israel, JTF.

Israel didn't leave Lebanon willingly. They retreated from Lebanon because of Hezbollah guerilla warfare tactics were a constant source of casualties and a drain on their military. Leaving most of Lebanon was a strategic decision, not a goodwill gesture. Also there is no agreement that Israel's retreat would end hostilities by either side. Technically and legally, Israel and Lebanon are at war with each other. The agreement between Israel and Hezbollah is that neither side would attack civilian targets as per this understanding:

http://www.answers.com/topic/israeli-lebanese-ceasefire-understanding

I have repeatedly posted that Israel has every right to defend itself. But it can only legally attack military targets. Its war crime and a violation of the above agreement to deliberately attack Lebanese civilians.

I have referenced AI and HRW documents which describe in detail Israel deliberately attacking Lebanese civilians in response to Hezbollahs successful July 12, 2006 attack on Israeli military targets.

I have also referenced documents which show that Hezbollah claims they did not target Israeli civilians during that July 12, 2006 raid.

Even though Israel claims a small number of civilians were injured in the attack, Israel does not claim Israeli civilians were the object of Hezbollah's attack. I have referenced Israeli newspapers which admit the alleged injuries to Israeli civilians resulting from Hezbollah's raid were minor. Judging from the lack of details about these minor injuries and a reference to some injuries as "shock", which means pyschological, I would say the injuries are probably exaggerated to non-existant. If Israeli citizens had suffered any kind of direct severe injuries resulting from this raid, like a shrapnel wound, I'm sure our news would have reported all the gory details. But there are no gory details because the injuries were minor.

Our news reported these minor injuries in such a way as that people could believe they were serious even though they weren't.

As far as Israel being a victim of attacks, you are obviously unaware that more often than not, Israel is the instigator of these border skirmishes. After Hezbollah kicked Israel out of Lebanon in 2000, Israel kept bombing and shelling Lebanon.

The reason why many people have such a distorted viewpoint is that most people are unaware of events not reported by our news:

Examples of routine Israeli attacks on Lebanon:

1 May 2001​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Letter dated 30 April 2001 from the Permanent Representative of[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Lebanon to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General...[/FONT]​

...a list of the violations and infringements that were committed by Israel against Lebanon in the period from 9 to 18 April 2001. Lebanon regards these incidents as an extension of Israel’s aggression against its people and territory and as being in flagrant violation of international law...​

...[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]14 April 2001[/FONT]
Between 1550 and 1600 hours Israeli warplanes attacked the road between
Naqqar Shab`a and Kafr Shuba in the liberated Lebanese territories, firing two air-to-surface missiles...​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]...[/FONT]Like the previous Israeli violations of which it represents a continuation, this latest series is in flagrant violation of Security Council resolution 425 (1978 ) and of Lebanon’s sovereignty and poses a threat to stability in the region.​

I should be grateful if you would have this letter circulated as a document of
the General Assembly, under agenda item 40, and of the Security Council.
([FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Signed[/FONT]) Sélim [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Tadmoury[/FONT]
Ambassador
Permanent Representative​

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a55923.pdf

Here is another example:

Identical letters dated 28 December 2005 from the
Chargé d'affaires a.i. of the Permanent Mission of Lebanon
to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General
and the President of the Security Council

On instructions from my Government I wish to inform you of the following:


1. At 4.20 a.m. on 28 December 2005 two Israeli warplanes attacked the Na'imah district, situated south of the capital, Beirut, far into Lebanese territory, firing two air-to-ground missiles at the said area. In addition, six Israeli warplanes violated Lebanese airspace, from Naqurah in the south to the city of Tripoli in the north, reaching as far as Rashayya and Hasbayya in eastern Lebanon, where they carried out mock attacks;

2. These violations, committed within the context of constant, near-daily Israeli violations of Lebanese sovereignty and the Blue Line, jeopardize international security and peace and thus require on the part of the Security Council a tough stance with respect to Israel in order to call a halt to such acts of aggression....
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/38...7106f13b58c91da4852570ec005937c9!OpenDocument

If Lebanese aircraft attacked Haifa, that would have been newsworthy. Instead it was only Israel attacking Beirut yet again. Hardly newsworthy.

Here is another example from 2004

Letter dated 11 May 2004 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General

With reference to our letter of 10 May 2004 I have the honour to inform you, at the request of the Government of Lebanon, that on 7 May 2004 Israeli occupation forces positioned at Al-Summaqah and Ruwaysat al-Alam in the occupied Shab`a Farms infiltrated to a depth of more than 200 metres into liberated Lebanese territory, thus violating that territory.


On 8 May 2004 a United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) patrol composed of the chief of the liaison office, Colonel Scellos, and Major Colo, together with officers of the Lebanese liaison unit, proceeded to the location of the incident and investigated the violation.

It was evident to the joint Lebanese/United Nations team, after examining the site of the incident and taking the necessary measurements by means of sensitive topographical equipment, that a group of members of the Israeli army had crossed the border of the occupied zone, heading west, and spread out over an area 250 metres deep and 20 metres wide within liberated Lebanese territory, reaching the point defined by coordinates UTM 752174-3690063, in the neighbourhood of Ruwaysat al-Alam marker 173, where the resistance observed the advance of the said Israeli forces and clashed with them, forcing them to retreat. Annexed hereto you will find a map showing the location of the incident...


http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/36...a4882434519a933885256e93006c8c0a!OpenDocument

The above examples came from searching the UN database. There are literally hundreds of examples recorded there of Israel firing bullets, rockets, mortar and artillary shells into Lebanon since 2000. Some were in response to Hezbollah attacks, but most Israeli acts of war against Lebanon were unprovoked.

Another issue is covert Israeli operations inside Lebanon. Likely Israel is responsible for many assassinations:

Lebanon: New evidence Mossad behind assassination

Lebanese army releases statement citing new evidence that cell nabbed in Lebanon for Majzoub brothers’ assassination in May answered to Israeli intelligence agency Roee Nahmias Published: 06.14.06, 01:05 / Israel News

A notice published by the Lebanese army Tuesday regarding the assassination on May 25 of the Majzoub brothers in Sidon, revealed apparently new details regarding Israel’s involvement in the hit.

“In the last operation, that targeted the Majzoub brother, the network received a prepared booby-trapped door for their car from Israel. They were equipped with photographic and broadcast devices to be sure the brother did leave their house. A raid of the cell members’ house uncovered sophisticated spying devices. The investigation is ongoing in an attempt to arrest the remaining cell members and decode additional terror activities. The detained will be judged soon,” the statement declared...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3262657,00.html

Even though the above Israeli attacks are acts of war and often unprovoked, most were legal and within the rules of the April Understanding, because Israel and Lebanon are oficial at war and the targets were military.

And its not just Palestinians and Lebanese who are attacked by Israeli warplanes. Occasionally Israel bombs Syria too:

5 October 2003

Provisional​

...Agenda

Letter dated 5 October 2003 from the Permanent Representative of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/2003/939)

Letter dated 5 October 2003 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon to the United Nations addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/2003/943) ...

...Mr. Al-Kidwa (Palestine)


...As members of the Council know, Israeli warplanes attacked a site north of Damascus, the capital of sisterly Syria. There is no doubt whatsoever that this marks new Israeli aggression against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria. It is a violation of the Charter of the United Nations and the norms of international law. In the course of this action against Syria, Israel also violated Lebanese air space — which constitutes aggression against yet another Arab country.

Today's action may be added to the long list of acts of Israeli military aggression against many Arab countries, and confirms Israel's determination to use aggression and force and to violate international law. We vigorously deplore and condemn this most recent Israeli aggression against Syria and call upon the Security Council to join in vigorously condemning it. We call upon the Council to demand that Israel cease such acts of aggression and such violations of international law, as set out in the Arab draft resolution that has been placed before the Council.

The Israeli aggression threatens to extend the cycle of confrontation to the entire Middle East, adding to the great dangers that we already face in that region. We speak today as the victims of systematized Israeli aggression and of the bloody Israeli campaign against us of the past three years, including repeated war crimes. We are victims of settler colonization, expansionist policies and the denial of our national right to an independent Palestinian State with its capital in East Jerusalem....
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/db...57b65178624842ee85256db8005213c9!OpenDocument

Since Israel's constant attacks on its neighbors are rarely reported, most people have been selectively misinformed. As a result its common to have distorted perceptions about Israel, like JTF's above.

Israel is not a victim and never has been. Israel is the dominant military force in the region and has been since 1948. Israel's goal is to conquer all of Palestine, ethnically cleanse it of non-Jews and turn this area into a pure Jewish state. With assistance from the US and other world powers, Israel is well on its way to achieving that goal. How unfortunate for the millions of non-Jews who have become nationless refugees as a result. What a shame and disgrace that the world allows this injustice.

BTW, Israel continues to violate the terms of its recent ceasefire with Lebanon.

http://tadamon.resist.ca/index.php/?p=246

 

[earth_as_one]

Wow, You completely ignored the many posts that refute your claim

And jump to one looney preaching genocide, which Im starting to believe might just be another account of yours by how convenient it was

Was this addressed to me? You will have to be more specific. Some of my posts above were not in response to your posts. But if you look at my sources you will see many come from the UN, BBC, Haaretz, BADIL, B'TSELEM...