Liberals furious at Harper's Taliban accusation

[TomG]

I’m not sure any cases of prisoner mistreatment have been documented. However, reasons to support to support the Geneva conventions that define acceptable treatment for prisoners are of course ethical and moral. Another reason is that you don’t want your own soldiers mistreated when they are captured—and yes some will be captured.

In war torn areas judgments comes easily. Guilt will be judged, and it will make little difference if those judged guilty are guilty as accessories to perpetrators or are simply guilty by perception and appearance. Those judged guilty fare poorly in war zones. As soon as Canadian troops were engaged as combatants and civilian deaths occurred there would be a problem. The problem doesn’t need to be amplified by inadequate exchange arrangements.

Our Minister of Defense, a retired general with 30 years of service, maybe should have figured out there was a problem with the exchange deal since he had a full career of military experience, a full minister’s staff and almost a year to get up to speed on his portfolio. Maybe he should have recognized a need to support the troops genuinely rather than the self-serving emotional gushing displays put on by his boss Harper, the honourable. Right?

 

[darkbeaver]

Harper has corporate standards.

 

[BitWhys]

You do make a point, there.

 

[ottawabill]

absolutely we should treat prisoners properly, outside of a few people I think most would agree.

However there has been a throw mud at everything approach the Liberals are taking and looking of anything to stick. They must watchout for fear of looking like the NDP where the only issue is to be against the government.

Truely we have not heard much talk about supporting troups, equiping them properly from the Liberal. These are the guys who sent them to the desert with forest gear... It's hard to portray of smypathy for the Taliban when the optics don't look good for your troup support.

Unfortunately politics is not a game of truth but rather a game of optics....and these optics don't work well

 

[MikeyDB]

Harper has corporate standards.

Makes good sense Beve...

Send Canadian troops to engage the Taliban....don't bother destroying their poppy fields and drug trade....keep the door open to future petroleum pipeline potential....foster blind patriotism to demonstrate how "worldly" you and your party are....

No down side whatever if you don't count bodies and broken people returning home...

 

[BitWhys]

...They must watchout for fear of looking like the NDP where the only issue is to be against the government...

Its a pity, really. Bill Blakie and the NDP have been all over the issue of prisoners in Afghanistan from the get-go and denials of it being a problem out of O'Conner abound. This situation could have been avoided. If habitual stubborn opposition is all you can assume out of his and the party's motivations on the matter then so be it.

 

[mabudon]

There's the thing maybe- I do NOT accept that our leaders MUST be tied more to "optics" than actual actions and policies, which is why I support Dions call for an apology of sorts (even if it is just a gesture- Harper won't apologize for anything unles it's to people who Liberals did something to in the dark past)

The "optics" of this situation, if they must be called into play, are that the PM is appealing to 4-year-olds with his innuendo, and the real problem is that it's kind of working- it shames our whole country to have "debate" brought down to this level. I believe Dion has the moral high ground in this particular situation, "optics" be damned

 

[EagleSmack]

Ah nothing like proving how lil one knows, I'm signed and I haven't signed out.

But since you have resorted to childish name calling as a rebuttle, I'll take this as a win.

Thanx.

When you've grown up, PM me, I'm always around.

I second that WIN.

Good job and yes the liberals are that dumb.

 

[ottawabill]

But good or bad the general voter is of a 4year old mind, therefore Optics becomes the issue.

In Ontario, things turned for Ernie Eves after a riding office sent out an email calling Dalton McGuinty and Alien Kitten eater..what the hell does that have to do with good or bad goverment??

It happens over and over between all the parties. There are core voters who think in certain ways Liberal, Conservative etc and vote on issues, then there is everyone else who either wants to know what the gov. will do for them personally, or who has no chin and who looks better (optics again) Then there's tons who don't bother at all....

If it was alway core voters and thought minded people the results would be about the same through each election, so they have to kick start the mushy middle...thats whats going on right now..The Liberals are looking for a kick start, They need it!!

 

[Sparrow]

I think someone needs to investigate the meaning of anti-war! They are trying to use anti-war as being unsupportive of our troops. I am anti-war but you can bet your bottom dollar that I support our troops. Also anti-war does not mean supporting the Taliban. This name calling polarizes the people as well as the government and it sounds desperate on the part of Harper. He is better than that!

 

[ottawabill]

I think someone needs to investigate the meaning of anti-war! They are trying to use anti-war as being unsupportive of our troops. I am anti-war but you can bet your bottom dollar that I support our troops. Also anti-war does not mean supporting the Taliban. This name calling polarizes the people as well as the government and it sounds desperate on the part of Harper. He is better than that!

Have you read the polls?? I don't think Harper need to be desperate?? Where have you seen the Liberals showing troup support?? they have undercut funding for years..said the Generals were just Boys looking for toys when they asked for equipment?

 

[mabudon]

OH so only left wingers can have "optics" eh?? the right is so decisive they don't need no stinkin optics- good for Harper, cos "optically" he comes off like a control freak neo-con

 

[china]

Originally Posted by CDNBear
Ah nothing like proving how lil one knows, I'm signed and I haven't signed out.

But since you have resorted to childish name calling as a rebuttle, I'll take this as a win.

Thanx.

When you've grown up, PM me, I'm always around.

I second that WIN.

Good job and yes the liberals are that dumb.\\\\
I 3rd that,

 

[MikeyDB]

I still don't understand what's going on here...

Perhaps the mighty USA can tell Pakistan to quit involvement in Afghanistan...close their borders and execute those who attempt to interfere....

Destroy the poppy fields and provide not only re-construction to the infrastructure but employment and possibility to the natives through rebuilding their country...

Sure it's not as cheap as dropping cluster bombs and no where near as profitable as supplying Bradley's and bullets....

Do we want this mess to end or are we willing to accept that Afghanistan and Iraq will be the 'hobby-war' for munitions manufacturers to reap millions on...at the expense of American British and Canadian kids?

End the mess and get the hell out...

Why is this issue so complicated?

 

[ottawabill]

OH so only left wingers can have "optics" eh?? the right is so decisive they don't need no stinkin optics- good for Harper, cos "optically" he comes off like a control freak neo-con

Good grief!!!, Harper doesn't need the same approach since he is in power, he needs to remain Authority sounding, while the opp, must find holes in his armour....At other times is is the other way arround....

 

[MikeyDB]

How cum I don't get no answer to my query?

If you destroy the money end of terrorism...like our good friend Bush said...."if'n yer not with us yer agin us"....and you provide alternatives....doesn't that make much more sense than letting this mayhem continue?

Does Harper need someone to tell him that the idea of going to war is to bring an end to oppression and re-establish stability....

C'mon now folk....do we want this thing to end or are we happy to let it be yet another ping-pong ball among the comfortable armchair quarterbacks sitting safely in Canada and the U.S....while the crap builds deeper and our youngsters die for nothing????????????????????

 

[mabudon]

Merely pointing out how you used the polls to suggest that Harper "doesn't need to be desperate" yet his actions speak of exactly that, he can't say ANYTHING of substance against his "opponents" since he knows they could hit back pretty hard, I would think, so instead he has resorted to the LOWEST strategy there is, simply villifying the opposition with ludicrous statements (that they are "with the enemy" for instance should be slander in my book)

To me, it smacks of desperation- why not take the "high road"?? If Harper has been as good for our country as some folks would like to think, why not simply produce the FACTS and let Canadians see that he truly IS the "right person for the job"??

To quote many other folks "The Optics STINK"

 

[ottawabill]

Merely pointing out how you used the polls to suggest that Harper "doesn't need to be desperate" yet his actions speak of exactly that, he can't say ANYTHING of substance against his "opponents" since he knows they could hit back pretty hard, I would think, so instead he has resorted to the LOWEST strategy there is, simply villifying the opposition with ludicrous statements (that they are "with the enemy" for instance should be slander in my book)

To me, it smacks of desperation- why not take the "high road"?? If Harper has been as good for our country as some folks would like to think, why not simply produce the FACTS and let Canadians see that he truly IS the "right person for the job"??

To quote many other folks "The Optics STINK"

Maybe he should!! I personally am a Conservative but not a great fan of Harper, so you may not here about the "Great Leader from me. Truth is the Liberals sent the troups in, underfunded and all..but they did send them there..they can't be too much the the enemy really..

We didn't go the Afghanastan to liberate..we went to stop Taliban funding and protection.

With all that said though, I don't think Dion is much of a leader, no real issues, no forthcommingness (if thats a word hahaha)

I will also agree that Hasrper should take a higher road especially as he is doing well both in the polls and smooth sailing government..why screw with it??

 

[EagleSmack]

I still don't understand what's going on here...

Perhaps the mighty USA can tell Pakistan to quit involvement in Afghanistan...close their borders and execute those who attempt to interfere....

Destroy the poppy fields and provide not only re-construction to the infrastructure but employment and possibility to the natives through rebuilding their country...

Sure it's not as cheap as dropping cluster bombs and no where near as profitable as supplying Bradley's and bullets....

Do we want this mess to end or are we willing to accept that Afghanistan and Iraq will be the 'hobby-war' for munitions manufacturers to reap millions on...at the expense of American British and Canadian kids?

End the mess and get the hell out...

Why is this issue so complicated?

We will not end it because we are not finished yet. By ending it before we are ready gives into the people that will come back and say...

"Look what you did!"

Well they are saying that now but they will REALLY say it then.

If we are succesful and make a democratic govt. in the ME it will be a great thing. That is what the US is trying to do. That is why tyranny and liberals are trying like heck to stop it any way they can.

Just like after the first Gulf War, people blamed GW Bush Sr. for not finishing the job and left Saddam in power.

 

[mabudon]

uhhh.. "Tyranny"?!?!? Where is this "tyranny" that's "trying to stop" the illegal actions of the US??

(bad debating- "straw man" AND "weasel words", that's two in one post 'Smack)