Philosophically speaking, religion is a hoax

[sanctus]

I condemn your beliefs but I don't know you so I don't condemn you. You may be a very nice person but I am starting to come to the conclusion from the way you debate and the way you continuously attack me that you deserve to be attacked in the same manner as I attack your beliefs. It's pending! And of course, try to remembe that this is not about me and you.

Have you noticed that this charge of yours has been levelled many times throughout your meanderings here? You belittle and insult, and feign surprise when people react. It must be the disquiet in your own soul which permits you such blind arrogance and rudeness.

 

[sanctus]

Don't make unwise and unfounded assertions here unless you are prepared to stick around and back them up. Yes, we are a relatively stupid society, simply because we are mortal humans with brains which are incapable of understanding the universe. Science is working on the problem. Religion already has all the answers. Just ask one!

There is no religious group which asserts it has "all" the answers. They do, of course, indicate that they believe in a key to understanding the complexities and uncertainties of life for the billions of people who are wise enough to seek answers outside of their own experiences.

 

[sanctus]

The CHRISTIAN TACTIC: Move threads which are uncomfortable for them to the sidelines. No, I have no interest in going to the sidelines to disucss a perfectly reasonable and decent question on religion and whether or not it is a hoax. Civility and manners appropriae to this forum are called for on this thread and I sincerely hope the Christians will not attempt to have it sidelined by using other inappropriate tactics.

Than do so. In other words, rather than insult and belittle people, suggest how you feel religious belief is a hoax. Don't generalize and state some foolish catch-phrase that "religion is a hoax" which answers nothing. You know the defintion of a hoax, as do all of us here. You have been happily not successfully challenged on this key issue of your thread. Everything else is sideline to that issue. The onus is on you to indicate at what point you feel the religious leaders of the world today, or the founders of the various spiritual movements, have purposely and willingly perpetuated a hoax on people. That was your hypothesis. This thread has gotten way off the track. I have no intention of arguing with you, or anyone, about the existence of God. I do, however, suggest you return to your stated premise and define in what ways exactly you feel religious belief has been a hoax. You are certainly free to dismiss religious belief in your life. You are also free to determine it is a hindrance in the life of those who do profess it. But again, this is beside the point of your theme. You need to, with absolute proof, indicate in which ways you feel people like Jesus, the Buddha, Mohammed or any other founder have engaged in an intentional hoax upon the people they encountered. In other words, you must convince us of your knowledge which proves that, for example, Joshua bar-Jonah(Jesus) perpetuated a false spiritual belief He Himself did not hold but still taught in order to con people.Further, you must indicate the purpose for this. Not the purpose of the present, but of the founder. What benefit to this young Jewish man and what did He gain from willingly creating this "hoax" you mentioned.

 

[sanctus]

Some statistics:

And again, not that it matters but atheists are ranked #4.

http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/index.html

!

You need to attempt actual research on a topic rather than relying on pages of the internet as your source of information. Atheism "ranks" #4? First, that is grossly inaccurate, and secondly, and so? Does this prove anything? You yourself have condemned using statistics as a valid point of claim. So constantly referring to numbers of non-believers is another pointless and useless method of "proving" anything.Millions of people on this planet believe Jews are seeking to destroy the world, does this number therefore support the validity of their claim?

In fact, this is the accurate and correct breakdown of major religious belief in the world, as reported by the United Nations:

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: This is a highly disparate group and not a single religion. Although atheists are a small subset of this grouping, this category is not synonymous with atheism. People who specify atheism as their religious preference actually make up less than one-half of one percent of the population in many countries where much large numbers claim no religious preference, such as the United States (13.2% nonreligious according to ARIS study of 2005) and Australia (15% nonreligious)

 

[sanctus]

You're only avoiding the questions. It is an undisputable fact that the religion you were born with as for example, one of the main religions, is the religion you will stick with in the overwhelming majority of cases. Admittedly there are a few Christians who will become Buddhist, etc. Now face the question head on and tell us how all those 4.5 billion deserve the fate you have cooked up for them.

And don't convince me, convince those other people who are going to burn in your hell. I am not going to because I am an atheist. Tell the native indians on this forum so we can get a feeling how they like the idea. Tell sanctus he's wroing because he's a catholic. Tell karrie because he/she is some other brand. Do you think they are going to sympathize with my empathy or do you think they are going to sympathize with your vicious, evil, hateful, closeminded, and perverted ideas on the fate of the 4.5 billion others?

Childish ploy to focus on one aspect of a minority position to divert the attention of this thread into a direction where you are more comfortable. What the various religious people believe or do not believe is NOT the issue here. Who is or who is not going to Hell is NOT the issue here. What faith group I or anyone else belongs to is NOT the issue here. The issue is as you stated, that religious belief is a hoax. That, my very silly man, is what you must focus on. Sidetracking the discussion you suggested is proof only of the uncertainty of your hypothesis.

 

[CDNBear]

Ok, I am starting to wonder, just wonder, if this is a troll, who is keeping the pot stirred up for his own personal delight. I am not denying him being an atheist, that is QUITE CLEAR. But I wonder if he is trying to dramatasize this for his pure joy.

To quote another smart poster here...

BINGO!!!

 

[CDNBear]

CHRISTIAN TACTIC: Attempt to stop others from voicing their opinions against religion by accusing them of trolling. (or any other infraction against the forum rules they think they can make stick)

Oddly enough, that is only your tactic, accuse me of trolling because you can not refute on thing I say.

pots and kettles and pots and kettles and...

 

[sanctus]

Oddly enough, that is only your tactic, accuse me of trolling because you can not refute on thing I say.

pots and kettles and pots and kettles and...

I would add his other tactic which is to divert attention away from his hypothesis. He has perpetuated this ongoing battle of various Christian beliefs which are totally beside the point. In fact, this has nothing to do with Christian doctrines at all. But by focussing on this one group of spiritual life, he can successfully avoid trying to prove that the religious beliefs of the world, whatever they are, are in fact intentional hoaxes.

 

[CDNBear]

I would add his other tactic which is to divert attention away from his hypothesis. He has perpetuated this ongoing battle of various Christian beliefs which are totally beside the point. In fact, this has nothing to do with Christian doctrines at all. But by focussing on this one group of spiritual life, he can successfully avoid trying to prove that the religious beliefs of the world, whatever they are, are in fact intentional hoaxes.

I couldn't agree with you more Padre,

I find it rather self satisfying though, that this particular poster started this thread because of my thread on my spirit quest, to try a debunk spirituality, but has only gone so far as exposing his true self. Rather humourous if you ask me.

You've done well sir, keep the faith and do not give up.

 

[sanctus]

I couldn't agree with you more Padre,

I find it rather self satisfying though, that this particular poster started this thread because of my thread on my spirit quest, to try a debunk spirituality, but has only gone so far as exposing his true self. Rather humourous if you ask me.

You've done well sir, keep the faith and do not give up.

I shan't. Actually, in reading through his comments, I found myself laughing quite a bit. He's no match, that's for certain. What with the likes of you, Dexter, Gilbert and a few others I've argued with on this site, he seems so lightweight compared to you lot

 

[look3467]

Seems to me that the ones really bothered by lieexpsr words and views are those who are insecure in their own beliefs! Even those who claim not to believe are also bothered by his words and views.
I was not bothered the least because I am secure in my belief and nothing outside of that belief will disrupt, upset or cause me to retaliate with vicious remarks.

I have read all the posts from its beginning and everyone has responded unfavorably.

Given that the man’s views are different, yet he expressed heart where many of you have not.

Because I know who my Savior is and because I trust in Him with my life, I fear no evil.
Evil is in the hearts of mankind. It is a choice that we all have to either suppress it or use it for our benefit. That is the human element.
With out it, we could do no good!
For if we were all good, then the question would have to be: “How good are you, compared to what”?

So what lieexpsr is providing us with is the opportunity to do good. But instead, look as what it is bringing out of us!
He is no different than I, we are both fleshly creatures with the same ingredients to do good or evil.
That is no fault of our own but the fault of the creator. But that fault was an intended fault generated out of love.
How do I know? Because: He gave His only Son to be offered as a payment for the correction of that default condition.
Is that not proving His love for us?
In the face of adversity, and as the story goes, Satan offered Jesus the world, meaning bow to the flesh, and Jesus rejecting it over the will of the Father.

The number 40 is a number that denotes probation. Just as the Israelites being in the desert arena 40 years as their trial. Jesus was on trial 40 days and 40 nights as the story goes battling the elements of the flesh in our behalf.
But the fleshly lusts could not in all it’s offering persuade Jesus to bow to them because He had the Perfect Spirit of the living God in Him.
Thus He became our Savior as an offering for our sinful nature, that through Him could we find peace with the Father.

2Co 5:19 Our message is that God was making all human beings his friends through Christ. God did not keep an account of their sins, and he has given us the message which tells how he makes them his friends.
1Jo 4:10 This is what love is: it is not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the means by which our sins are forgiven.

There by, he who trusts and relies on Jesus has the peace of God resting on him.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[marygaspe]

There by, he who trusts and relies on Jesus has the peace of God resting on him.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:

What a lovely couple the two of you make, AJ! Both secure in your arrogance!

 

[mapleleafgirl]

In case there is anyone who wants to talk about it. I offer the following as my proof. All 15 hours of it to provide a basis of an understanding of my position to all those who believe in celestial teapots, flying spaghetti monsters, God, Santa Claus, and other assorted sky fairies. Religious people are welcome here too on my new thread. In fact they are challenged to present something to prove that there is anything of substance which causes them to hold to their silly faiths. Those such as myself who believe in absolutely sound and reasonable scientific explantions have no ned to censor others. Nothing you say will be objected to in an attempt to stop you from expressing yourself. Anything objectionable will be entirely the business of the moderators to correct. .

so how do you figure its a hoax? who started it? all religions, or just the ones you dont like? what do you think? posting a link is okay, but thats what he thinks not you.

 

[ottawabill]

Can You Believe This!!

Did you know there are people out there that believe that we are on a round ball floating in space aroound other round balls..some of them on fire!!! That we have an invisible layer of protection around us to keep in an invisible life giving gas and protect these living forms from boogie man invisible fire ball rays that would surly kill us otherwise...They also say that there are other round floating balls circling other firey balls..get this..billions of miles from here... and that some of these balls may also have an invisible protection to allow these things that move without batteries to be err alive....

Can you believe that anyone would be so dumb as to think that???

We truthfully live with lots of magic and strange things...be since we have always lived with God around us, somethimes we can't see right infront of our noses...

Is it any more imposible for life just to be here on this planet then to say some inteligent force caused it?

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Did youi know there are people out there that believe that we are on a round ball floating in space aroound other round balls..some of them on fire!!! That we have an invisible layer of protection around us to keep in an invisible life giving gas and protect these living forms from boogie man invisible fire ball rays that would surly kill us otherwise...They also say that there are other round floating balls circling other firey balls..get this..billions of miles from here... and that some of these balls may also have an invisible protection to allow these things that move without batteries to be err alive....

Can you believe that anyone would be so dumb as to think that???

We truthfully live with lots of magic and strange things...be since we have always lived with God around us, somethimes we can't see right infront of our noses...

Is it any more imposible for life just to be here on this planet then to say some inteligent force caused it?

awesome. that kinda says it all, eh?

 

[karrie]

We truthfully live with lots of magic and strange things...be since we have always lived with God around us, somethimes we can't see right infront of our noses...

Is it any more imposible for life just to be here on this planet then to say some inteligent force caused it?

intelligent design theory seems so much more likely to me than all of this existing out of random chance.

 

[lieexpsr]

Ariadne said: "I think you're mixing up the creationist versus evolution theory with a belief or denial of the existence of God. Can't someone believe in God without agreeing with creationism and can't someone believe in the big bang and still look for religious guidance in their lives?"

Maybe but I sure can't imagine how. You would have to be thinking of some imaginary view of god in your own mind. Or perhaps some other form of god who is not the crreater, not omniscient, not omnipotent, etc. Maybe you would like to explain?

 

[lieexpsr]

You are fundamentally correct. If he was indeed a true atheist, religious belief would not trouble him in others. He has already dismissed faith of any sort, so his only possible reasons for pursuing the topic is either to cause an uproar(troll) or because he is disquieted in his soul at how absurd his beliefs are.

Welcome back sanctus! I suppose we could say the same about westmanguy too couldn't we. And even you who has now come back to defend his beliefs against the truths of atheism.

Then on the other hand we could both say that we are on a mission to convince others that we are right. Or you could imagine some other reason why we are both here on this thread and I would be open to considering it too. But what I am not going to consider is a notion that your presence here and westy's presence here are any more justified than mine. The door swings both ways so watch out that it doesn't hit you on the ass on the way out. ;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

Ariadne said: "I think you're mixing up the creationist versus evolution theory with a belief or denial of the existence of God. Can't someone believe in God without agreeing with creationism and can't someone believe in the big bang and still look for religious guidance in their lives?"

Maybe but I sure can't imagine how. You would have to be thinking of some imaginary view of god in your own mind. Or perhaps some other form of god who is not the crreater, not omniscient, not omnipotent, etc. Maybe you would like to explain?

Lieexpsr you got my opinion about the god thing but here's a thing we should think about, ideas appear, they exist, they grow into material things and facts, god does exist as an idea, now what proof do we have that it hasn't or won't become real in the material sence, and avoid the ,but it's to bizzare thingy, because lots of previously too bizzare stuff is here now and some of it resembles magic sort of. Even your own argument and mine builds the god idea, it's odd how much effort we've both expended proveing something dosen't exist, if that idea was so self evident it shouldn't be so hard to point out the wrongness of it eh. Just a thought eh.:wave:

 

[lieexpsr]

Have you noticed that this charge of yours has been levelled many times throughout your meanderings here? You belittle and insult, and feign surprise when people react. It must be the disquiet in your own soul which permits you such blind arrogance and rudeness.

I don't do souls, I do brains. If you would like to elaborate on your attack against me I would be happy to take your ideas into consideration. But please don't try to make everyone think that the religious believers can attack me without getting it in return. Actually great white hope, we would all be much better off without any personal attacks at all. It would suit me just fine but I don't think the believers are quite up to it yet. If you have read the whole thread you must have seen where a few of them were crying for you to come to their rescue. Does that speak to you as a weakness? It tells me that they don't know their argument well enough to carry the ball on their own. Not to mention that their argument is completely untanable anyway.

But first let's define what an attack is becasue we may not be in agreement with that to start with.