Mary! Halleluiah! Praise the Lord!
That is a profound statement as underlined.
Now you see who the church is!
Only God could convince you of that!:angel8:
Peace>>>AJ
Catholic Discussion
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Mary! Halleluiah! Praise the Lord!
That is a profound statement as underlined.
Now you see who the church is!
Only God could convince you of that!:angel8:
Peace>>>AJ
westmanguy:
That would depend on your definition. You must be baptised of course for starters.
I should like to think that the determination is up to a higher authority. A Baptised Christian could claim to be and live a life of murder and debauchery, or at least be at odds with God. For this reason I consider myself a wannabe Catholic, even though I've been baptised and confirmed so. I could never be so confident and presume that I consider myself anything in that respect. At any given day I may swing one way or another, but for some reason by the grace of God I have an uncanny foreboding when I'm not. For me, it's as Nicholson says, "That's as good as it gets." :thumbup:
I suppose one day I will be told what I was.
Interestingly, everyone who is not Christian becomes one at the gates of heaven if he qualifies for entry. Neat hey?
AndyF
That would depend on your definition. You must be baptised of course for starters.
I should like to think that the determination is up to a higher authority. A Baptised Christian could claim to be and live a life of murder and debauchery, or at least be at odds with God. For this reason I consider myself a wannabe Catholic, even though I've been baptised and confirmed so. I could never be so confident and presume that I consider myself anything in that respect. At any given day I may swing one way or another, but for some reason by the grace of God I have an uncanny foreboding when I'm not. For me, it's as Nicholson says, "That's as good as it gets." :thumbup:
I suppose one day I will be told what I was.
Interestingly, everyone who is not Christian becomes one at the gates of heaven if he qualifies for entry. Neat hey?
AndyF
China:
Interesting that you should bring up this topic!
A year ago I was doing research on discernment of spirits, and I was taken to this particular site in my browsing. It was speaking of the exact same thing I think your talking about, the "I" controller. (Perhaps this is not what you mean.)
It defined a controller self that the Buddhists(sp?) and other far east monks practice to ward off, or more, accurately "shunt off" sin. It said we all have the temptation to sin and is similar to speaking as a second person in one's mind. "I want to watch porn", and again "I want to swear",etc are thoughts we may have. The thought is preceded by an "I". These temptations can come very rapid as one would see cars crossing an intersection. It recommended that the person establish a control. Every other "I's" suggestion must pass through the controlling "I" and be examined to receive permission to be accepted. The garbage is sent into a conceptual waste basket.
The author claims that after a while of this exercise, the monks can effectually lessen sin by this method, and the traffic in the mind becomes much less and the person eventually is led into a more peaceful life of meditation and contemplation. Less and less "I"s get to be analysed as trash, and more of the positive ones get through.
It was a good read and I made a note of it for possible future reference. So it was good to see someone bringing this topic up again.
AndyF
Interesting that you should bring up this topic!
A year ago I was doing research on discernment of spirits, and I was taken to this particular site in my browsing. It was speaking of the exact same thing I think your talking about, the "I" controller. (Perhaps this is not what you mean.)
It defined a controller self that the Buddhists(sp?) and other far east monks practice to ward off, or more, accurately "shunt off" sin. It said we all have the temptation to sin and is similar to speaking as a second person in one's mind. "I want to watch porn", and again "I want to swear",etc are thoughts we may have. The thought is preceded by an "I". These temptations can come very rapid as one would see cars crossing an intersection. It recommended that the person establish a control. Every other "I's" suggestion must pass through the controlling "I" and be examined to receive permission to be accepted. The garbage is sent into a conceptual waste basket.
The author claims that after a while of this exercise, the monks can effectually lessen sin by this method, and the traffic in the mind becomes much less and the person eventually is led into a more peaceful life of meditation and contemplation. Less and less "I"s get to be analysed as trash, and more of the positive ones get through.
It was a good read and I made a note of it for possible future reference. So it was good to see someone bringing this topic up again.
AndyF
Redemption of Demons?
Some bits and pieces of trivia I gathered and you may find interesting on the redemption of demons:
Saint Isaac the Syrian (7th century)wrote:
"What is a merciful heart? It is a heart that burns with love
for the whole creation — for men, for birds, for beasts,
for demons and for every creature."
http://www.orthodoxeurope.org/theospirit/000013.php
"The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian"
by Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev
Hilarion Alfeyev, The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian.
Cistercian Studies Series, Number 175. Kalamazoo MI and
Spencer MA: Cistercian Publications, 2000. Pp. 321.
A cute story:
...With the Sign of the Cross, the old monk Abba
Joseph trapped in his cell a dark and miserable demon
who had come to tempt him. "Release me, Father, and let
me go," pleaded the demon, "I will not come to tempt you
again". "I will gladly do that, but on one condition,"
replied the monk. "You must sing for me the song that
you sang before God's Throne on high, before your fall."
The demon responded, "You know I cannot do that; it will
cause me cruel torture and suffering. And besides, Father,
no human ear can hear its ineffable sweetness and live,
for you will surely die." "Then you will have to remain
here in my cell," said the monk, "and bear with me the
full struggle of repentance." "Let me go, do not force me
to suffer," pleaded the demon." "Ah, but then you must
sing to me the song you sang on high before your fall with Satan."
So the dark and miserable demon, seeing that there was
no way out, began to sing, haltingly, barely audible
at first, groping for words long forgotten. As he sang,
the darkness which penetrated and surrounded him began
slowly to dissipate. The song grew ever louder and
increasingly stronger, and soon the demon was caught
up in its sweetness, his voice fully lifted up in worship
and praise. Boldly he sang of the power and the honour
and the glory of the Triune God on High, Creator of the
Universe, Master of Heaven and Earth, of all things visible
and invisible. As the song sung on high before all ages
resounded in the fullness of its might, a wondrous and
glorious light penetrated the venerable Abba's humble cell,
and the walls which had enclosed it were no more. Ineffable
love and joy surged into the very depths of the being
of the radiant and glorious angel, as he ever so gently
stooped down and covered with his wings the lifeless body
of the old hermit who had liberated him from the abyss of hell.
AndyF
Some bits and pieces of trivia I gathered and you may find interesting on the redemption of demons:
Saint Isaac the Syrian (7th century)wrote:
"What is a merciful heart? It is a heart that burns with love
for the whole creation — for men, for birds, for beasts,
for demons and for every creature."
http://www.orthodoxeurope.org/theospirit/000013.php
"The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian"
by Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev
Hilarion Alfeyev, The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian.
Cistercian Studies Series, Number 175. Kalamazoo MI and
Spencer MA: Cistercian Publications, 2000. Pp. 321.
A cute story:
...With the Sign of the Cross, the old monk Abba
Joseph trapped in his cell a dark and miserable demon
who had come to tempt him. "Release me, Father, and let
me go," pleaded the demon, "I will not come to tempt you
again". "I will gladly do that, but on one condition,"
replied the monk. "You must sing for me the song that
you sang before God's Throne on high, before your fall."
The demon responded, "You know I cannot do that; it will
cause me cruel torture and suffering. And besides, Father,
no human ear can hear its ineffable sweetness and live,
for you will surely die." "Then you will have to remain
here in my cell," said the monk, "and bear with me the
full struggle of repentance." "Let me go, do not force me
to suffer," pleaded the demon." "Ah, but then you must
sing to me the song you sang on high before your fall with Satan."
So the dark and miserable demon, seeing that there was
no way out, began to sing, haltingly, barely audible
at first, groping for words long forgotten. As he sang,
the darkness which penetrated and surrounded him began
slowly to dissipate. The song grew ever louder and
increasingly stronger, and soon the demon was caught
up in its sweetness, his voice fully lifted up in worship
and praise. Boldly he sang of the power and the honour
and the glory of the Triune God on High, Creator of the
Universe, Master of Heaven and Earth, of all things visible
and invisible. As the song sung on high before all ages
resounded in the fullness of its might, a wondrous and
glorious light penetrated the venerable Abba's humble cell,
and the walls which had enclosed it were no more. Ineffable
love and joy surged into the very depths of the being
of the radiant and glorious angel, as he ever so gently
stooped down and covered with his wings the lifeless body
of the old hermit who had liberated him from the abyss of hell.
AndyF
I don't know Ottawabill, to be honest with you. There is something to be said for the dedication of a celibate man to his work. I wouldn't be against allowing married men into the main Rite of the Church. Frankly, it seems hypocritical to let married men serve as priests in parts of the church and not others.
This is a pretty intense subject. I guess if they dedicate themselves solely to the love of God instead of commiting solely to another then it balances out?
Sure is intense. Funny though, since priests never marry, those that are must do so before ordination. I never thought what it must be like to be married, wife leaves and now I assume must be celibate.
The "Secret Rapture" - What You Should Know
MARTIN LUTHER: "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist...For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196, 197.
JOHN CALVIN: "I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter...I deny him to be the head of the church." "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul, himself, after whom we speak, and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in 2 Thessalonians 2), are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies to the Papacy." John Calvin, Tracts, Vol.1, pp. 219,220. John Calvin, Institutes.
JOHN WYCLIF: "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist? Hence in the seventh chapter of Daniel, Antichrist is forcefully described by a horn arising in the time of the 4th kingdom. For it grew from [among] our powerful ones, more horrible, more cruel, and more greedy, because by reckoning the pagans and our Christians by name, a lesser [greater?] struggle for the temporals is not recorded in any preceding time...and the horn has arisen from the ten horns, having eyes and a mouth speaking great things against the Lofty One, and wearing out the saint of the Most High, and thinking that he is able to change times and laws." (Daniel 7:8,25 quoted)..."For so our clergy foresee the lord pope, as it is said of the eighth blaspheming little head." Translated from Wyclif's De Veritate Sacrae Scripturae, Vol. 3, pp. 262, 263.
There are similar statements made by John Wesley, William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Phillipe Melanchthon Huldreich Zwingli, and, almost eighty other pre and post Reformers. Many of whom paid for such statements with their lives.
After, these men focused the fulfillment of prophecy upon the office of the Papacy, the church commissioned a Jesuit priest, named Alberto Ribera, to come up with an alternative interpretation of prophecy. He invented the "Secret Rapture" theory, which, does not appear in the Scripture. (He, also, came up with the rebuilding of the Jerusalem temple, even though, Jesus and the Apostle Paul made it clear, that, the believing Jews and Gentiles, are now His temple upon the earth. John 2:19-21; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21.) The "Secret Rapture" was picked up by John Darby, and, later, by Scofield, who incorporated it into his Bible notes. In the late '60s, Scofield's Bible was very popular with Evangelicals, who ran with this interpretation.
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; IN THE WHICH the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10.
As we can see from this verse, His coming will be, neither, secret nor silent, but, the end of the world as we know it. Please compare this verse with the seventh plague, found in Revelation 16:17-21.
What did Jesus prophesy, concerning His coming?
"For THEN shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and THEN shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory." Matthew 24:21-35.
Jesus said, that, He is coming AFTER the Great Tribulation. Should we fear? The seven last plagues mimic the Ten Plagues in Egypt. Were God's people kept from His wrath? Were Noah and his family kept safe, during the Great Flood? Yes! He is able to keep us through tribulation.
So, why did the New Testament saints look for His coming? Because, Pagan Rome persecuted Jesus, the Christians and the Jews. The Roman Emperors gave their power, seat and authority (Revelation 13:2) to the Bishop of Rome. Papal Rome murdered and tortured millions of Christians. One final time, the "Mother of harlots" (the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system, as seen in Revelation 17), will persecute His remnant church.
It's, always, been about Rome.
MARTIN LUTHER: "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist...For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196, 197.
JOHN CALVIN: "I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter...I deny him to be the head of the church." "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul, himself, after whom we speak, and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in 2 Thessalonians 2), are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies to the Papacy." John Calvin, Tracts, Vol.1, pp. 219,220. John Calvin, Institutes.
JOHN WYCLIF: "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist? Hence in the seventh chapter of Daniel, Antichrist is forcefully described by a horn arising in the time of the 4th kingdom. For it grew from [among] our powerful ones, more horrible, more cruel, and more greedy, because by reckoning the pagans and our Christians by name, a lesser [greater?] struggle for the temporals is not recorded in any preceding time...and the horn has arisen from the ten horns, having eyes and a mouth speaking great things against the Lofty One, and wearing out the saint of the Most High, and thinking that he is able to change times and laws." (Daniel 7:8,25 quoted)..."For so our clergy foresee the lord pope, as it is said of the eighth blaspheming little head." Translated from Wyclif's De Veritate Sacrae Scripturae, Vol. 3, pp. 262, 263.
There are similar statements made by John Wesley, William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Phillipe Melanchthon Huldreich Zwingli, and, almost eighty other pre and post Reformers. Many of whom paid for such statements with their lives.
After, these men focused the fulfillment of prophecy upon the office of the Papacy, the church commissioned a Jesuit priest, named Alberto Ribera, to come up with an alternative interpretation of prophecy. He invented the "Secret Rapture" theory, which, does not appear in the Scripture. (He, also, came up with the rebuilding of the Jerusalem temple, even though, Jesus and the Apostle Paul made it clear, that, the believing Jews and Gentiles, are now His temple upon the earth. John 2:19-21; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21.) The "Secret Rapture" was picked up by John Darby, and, later, by Scofield, who incorporated it into his Bible notes. In the late '60s, Scofield's Bible was very popular with Evangelicals, who ran with this interpretation.
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; IN THE WHICH the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10.
As we can see from this verse, His coming will be, neither, secret nor silent, but, the end of the world as we know it. Please compare this verse with the seventh plague, found in Revelation 16:17-21.
What did Jesus prophesy, concerning His coming?
"For THEN shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and THEN shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory." Matthew 24:21-35.
Jesus said, that, He is coming AFTER the Great Tribulation. Should we fear? The seven last plagues mimic the Ten Plagues in Egypt. Were God's people kept from His wrath? Were Noah and his family kept safe, during the Great Flood? Yes! He is able to keep us through tribulation.
So, why did the New Testament saints look for His coming? Because, Pagan Rome persecuted Jesus, the Christians and the Jews. The Roman Emperors gave their power, seat and authority (Revelation 13:2) to the Bishop of Rome. Papal Rome murdered and tortured millions of Christians. One final time, the "Mother of harlots" (the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system, as seen in Revelation 17), will persecute His remnant church.
It's, always, been about Rome.
Well, who really like grumblers anyway? I have a buddy who is always uptight and bitches about everything under the sun. We like to keep him at a distance because it is a bit of a drag being around him. It's hard not to be like that though, because we right away zoom in on all the negative stuff.
I don't understand it myself. A grown man who never gets laid! Blows my mind. Stupid question, but does this mean a man wouldn't even beat off?
Our age is witnessing a terrible defection of Christ's word in the minds of innumerable Catholics. Infected with liberalism, surrendering their minds to teachers of error and heresy, they minimize the importance of dogma and of Catholic unity, and they distort the meaning of Charity, changing that sublime supernatural virtue into a sentimental shadow which, at best, can be termed mere charitableness.... The eternal salvation of man is achieved by adhering to the word of Christ, by abiding in the vine. Those alone bear good fruit who have been faithful to the word of Christ.... It is part, therefore, of the doctrine of Jesus Christ that no man can be saved outside the Catholic Church