Catholic Discussion

[sanctus]

Fr. C. G. Vaillancourt


We are children of God, created in His image and sanctified by His own Blood. In paradise we lost our inheritance and we were condemned to dust. We have desecrated the image of God in us by our sins, it is then imperative that we come to the Son to be restored onto His likeness [Philippians 3:21]. Through Jesus we have become adoptive sons and daughters of God and our inheritance has been restored [Ephesians 1:5].
As children of the Most High we are united to Christ in baptism and depending on our behaviour we can merit the salvation that He has already paid for. The children of God do not sin [1 John 3:9], at least they are not supposed to, but if anyone sins we have Jesus Christ to forgive us through His Precious Blood [1 John 2:1].
Like Father, like son we say here on earth, is it not important that we truly become like God? We must live our lives according to the pattern of Christ so that we may also reflect the image of the Father in us [1 Corinthians 15:49].



We have been created from nothingness into existence by the goodness of God. Being moulded by his hands we have received his breath to animate our lives. The soul is the breath of God, that part of immortality which separates us from the material world [Genesis 2:7].
So we come from God who created us, in Him we live, we move and we have our being.[Acts 17:28]



Knowing that we are children of God, we should go back to Him "our origin". Our lives must become a quest to possess the immortality we have lost. Jesus has pointed the Way: I am the Way. [John 14:6]
His way is a way of holiness and renunciation to the things of the world, with St. Paul we must count everything as rubbish in order to possess the most precious thing "Christ" [Philippians 3:8]
With Christ we become aware of his work of purification in our souls, and we learn to turn away from evil in order to walk along with Him [Matthew 16:24].
The soul then stops seeking the things of the flesh and the world, and many changes will occur that will lead it to live for God only [1 John 2:16].
It is in the soul that all good and bad is imprinted and in the soul we can feel the spirit of God moving us to do good, we can also feel the spirit of evil trying to convince us to live according to the calls of the flesh.
The carnal man lives according to the inclinations of the flesh, he becomes a slave of the passions and he lives with no desire of God in him. This man sins and wounds his soul with mortal sin unless he comes to know Christ [Romans 8:5].
Those who are called to live by Christ must repent of their sins, amend their lives and live in conformity with His Spirit [2 Chronicles 7:14].
The Holy Spirit moves us to accept that Jesus is Lord, and if we accept His direction, we learn to listen to Him and to obey His Word in order to be saved [Romans 10:9].
The spiritual man receives the light of the truth and the truths sets him free [Romans 8:2]. In the wings of the spirit he can travel securely following the call to eternal life [Isaiah 40:31].

 

[L Gilbert]

We are children of God, created in His image and sanctified by His own Blood...............

What's he mean "we"? Critter should speak for himself.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

What's he mean "we"? Critter should speak for himself.

but you are created by god too, even if you dont want to believe it
!

 

[L Gilbert]

but you are created by god too, even if you dont want to believe it
!

It isn't a point of wanting to or not. It's a faerie tale: the universe created me, not some invention of humans.

 

[L Gilbert]

Who am I ? Where do I come from? Where am I going?

I am me, LG.
I came from my ma & pa.
At the moment, I'm going to get myself a cuppa tea.
No big mystery or anything mystical behind my life.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Fr. C. G. Vaillancourt


[FAs children of the Most High we are united to Christ in baptism and depending on our behaviour we can merit the salvation that He has already paid for. T]

so salvation is not forever, we can actually lose it?

 

[tamarin]

What I still don't understand is why I'm under the gun because of what some silly woman did God-only-knows how many years ago in some garden. It's unfair.

 

[Alexander]

This forum has a lot of religious people huh?
I have to agree with both sides. We can't speak for everyone when we say 'God created us' there are other religions out there too that we need to respect. Although I'm not all for the Athiest beliefs, usually because they try to make everyone else look stupid, pure arrogance, they still have the right to believe what they want. I do not hold strong to any religion, I do not preach or try to convert people, nor do I say someone's religion is stupid. Well, maybe Scientology.
:cheers:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Who are you?

You're Fr. C.G. Vaillancourt, AKA sanctus, one of the more prolific and provocative posters here, onetime husband, father of two girls, a more than competent poet, a Catholic priest of the eastern rite, a scholarly student of your faith and an aspiring writer of books on it (and I presume the OP is part of that aspiration), and a bright and thoughtful man.

Where do you come from?

Your parents, who came from their parents, who came from their parents... and so on, all the way back to a primordial protoplasmic globule about 3.5 to 4 billion years ago.

Where are you going?

I don't know. Neither do you. Nobody does. In this life, because you're a successful citizen of a wealthy and peaceful modern secular democracy, that's entirely up to you and nobody can predict it. As for the next life... well, I'm a long way from being convinced there's any such thing, as you well know, so be the best you can be in the here and now. The available evidence strongly suggests it's probably all there is.

Why do you need more than that?

 

[look3467]

Fr. C. G. Vaillancourt


The Holy Spirit moves us to accept that Jesus is Lord, and if we accept His direction, we learn to listen to Him and to obey His Word in order to be saved [Romans 10:9].
The spiritual man receives the light of the truth and the truths sets him free [Romans 8:2]. In the wings of the spirit he can travel securely following the call to eternal life [Isaiah 40:31].

I am assured of your salvation by your very words.
You confessed Christ as your Lord and Savior.
You accepted the leading of the Holy Spirit to Christ-ward.
The spiritual man in you recognizes Jesus and is touched by Him.
You are indeed truly saved, as I am.
And you use scriptures as I do to confirm what we say.

Why then are you at odds with me?

I am assured of my salvation, I have the confidence of having eternal life, and I rest my soul from all my works.

I have agreed to all you said except for the following statement: "As children of the Most High we are united to Christ in baptism and depending on our behaviour we can merit the salvation that He has already paid for"

If salvation is already paid for, you say, why do we have to merit it?

Salvation is a free gift! What is free one need not work for it!

That: said alone, makes a world of difference. And I can tell you why!

I can love all souls unconditionally who differ with me in theology and or unbelievers in our God.

To require them to behave like me would mean to impose my morals on them as a standard for them as well.

But as we can see by the characters on this thread that that doesn’t work.

So, the next best thing is to love them all alike, talk to them about how wonderful God is, and then like you said above, “The Holy Spirit moves us to accept that Jesus is Lord”.

That would surely win more hearts for the Lord, wouldn’t you think?

I mean, if like as you said “We must live our lives according to the pattern of Christ so that we may also reflect the image of the Father in us.

Now what are we reflecting? Our image of what we think God is, or the image of God?

Here is the image of God: Love

:read2:Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
1Jo 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This is what Gods character is like, love.

If we are to be like Him then we ought to love one another as He loved us.

May I site a situation where Christians should not go to court:
:read2:1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

This thread is as a court made up of believers and un-believers in which the believers are at odds with one another in the midst of unbelievers. Such as: you and I?

What suppose they must think of our God?

It would be imperative that we both be agreed concerning the things which we are supposed to represent God to the world of unbelievers in that they might be persuaded to at least look to God?

May we discuss privately this so great a salvation?

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[sanctus]

Who are you?

You're Fr. C.G. Vaillancourt, AKA sanctus, one of the more prolific and provocative posters here, onetime husband, father of two girls, a more than competent poet, a Catholic priest of the eastern rite, a scholarly student of your faith and an aspiring writer of books on it (and I presume the OP is part of that aspiration), and a bright and thoughtful man.

Where do you come from?

Your parents, who came from their parents, who came from their parents... and so on, all the way back to a primordial protoplasmic globule about 3.5 to 4 billion years ago.

Where are you going?

I don't know. Neither do you. Nobody does. In this life, because you're a successful citizen of a wealthy and peaceful modern secular democracy, that's entirely up to you and nobody can predict it. As for the next life... well, I'm a long way from being convinced there's any such thing, as you well know, so be the best you can be in the here and now. The available evidence strongly suggests it's probably all there is.

Why do you need more than that?

Good post! Gave me quite a healthy chuckle!

And what do you mean "a more than competent poet"! The word you want is "genius"-hah hah hah

 

[canadarocks]

I am assured of your salvation by your very words.
You confessed Christ as your Lord and Savior.
You accepted the leading of the Holy Spirit to Christ-ward.
The spiritual man in you recognizes Jesus and is touched by Him.
You are indeed truly saved, as I am.
And you use scriptures as I do to confirm what we say.

Why then are you at odds with me?

Does he, or anyone, have to merit your approval?

 

[sanctus]

Why then are you at odds with me?

Only with wrong theology and absence from the Church, which is still necessary for salvation

May we discuss privately this so great a salvation?

Of course.

 

[Curiosity]

Dear Sanctus

The thing that often drives me battier than I am naturally, are all the "frills" ancient religious devotion puts on mankind.

You are not "what your calling is in your life"... you are simply "you". A product no doubt of love between your parents, your (assumption here) excellent upbringing and preparation for our world...

Take away all of the begats and dictates from the Holy Book and all of the rote learning you have to succumb to.... and think of what I am writing:

You are RC - you are Sanctus - you are a healthy, handsome, well endowed male who has journeyed a curious road of life, but learning all the way.... have deep responsible love you nuture, still enjoy and love your fellow humans, and you have emerged from your long walk with the sun still shining down on your countenance..... is that not enough?

Make no more than we are ourselves... we are simple.... we have been gifted..... enjoy yours and share them.

 

[AndyF]

tamarin:

It may be unfair, but what concerns me just as much is the judicial system that judged you. Placed under a magnifying glass, "it aen't so evidenciary perfect". Scrutinizing closer we find a selective judge where we are told there wouldn't be irregardless of sin state.

Was that women the only entity that could do wrong? No, because we have groups of people that can do the same thing. But we must remember to be fair. We need to ask ourselves if we can justifiably categorize groups as an entity that can sin, and in order to do so, we need to ask ourselves if the judge himself considers it a potential sin entity.

To find out we go to his book that he himself states is his word, the Bible. Here we find that the "group" angers him, and he "smites" them all collectively. So only now we see we are justified in saying they are a sinning entity in the recognized form they have chosen to sin.

Now we can examine cases and go to specifics. We find he caused earthly punishment to them for their collective sin. It tells us that he punishes them together for the same sin. But that is only phase I of the the judicial processing. Now we know there is an afterlife and all entities are "supposed" to be judged for the type of afterlife existance. So lets follow our entity on it's journey into phase II. When we get to the other side has observers, that entity has dispersed, it's nowhere to be found collectively. Then we discover on the celestial court docket that every individual member seperately is to be judged on the sin. Something has happened to the entity's form for an unknown reason. There seems to be evidence of immunity from complete prosecution.

If you are an observer from hell, you now have a right to appeal, since someone has tampered with the system to facilitate something, and that is a deadly serious matter, in fact it is a prime example of intrinsic evil, and contravenes a higher Justice that should exist. If allowed, the system itself becomes tainted.

I suppose if anyone was in heaven as an observer he wouldn't want to shake the apple cart. "Yes" men abound everywhere for self preservation reasons, and I doubt if anyone will voice an objection. But if there is anyone worth there salt, they would come to the defence of every being, before or after sentencing if it is found there is a glitch in any system.

So what can the reason for the double standard be? I think it is because mass eternal punishment is abhorent to god, and he cares not about how that impacts on devine principles applied to individuals. A true Universal Justice dealing with every entity would be one we would expect from a universal God. But a global justice by a global God fixated on individual entities is what we find in reality.

How does it impact on you? There may be a case where you may be judged and destined to hell for a specific sin, and someone else will receive a lessor sentence for the same sin because he is being judged on contribution, even though he entered into contract to achieve an end by desire and intent exactly has you acted out. The mishandling of this is all nonsense of course, because that person decided to join the recognized form and got what he desired through that outlet. The result should be a continuation of the earthly punishment(smiting). Sin together, pay togeather to the end of the process.

The good priest's mandate is to deal with the goodness of individual justice and convey this to you, but he does so on the realization of ignoring universal injustice. He feels since that is out of his jurisdiction, it does not constitute a relevant impact on justice to men. If he were to voice truth about anything, it should be truth double standards existing. If history and the Word is accurate, there should be a few nations in hell as there are people. No place for squemishness in true justice.

So if there are no nations in hell, then you are correct, some woman's sin ages ago should not have compounded to yourself.

Since dispersal is a norm in a group's favor, so should restriction of culpability be to individuals.

AndyF

 

[AndyF]

so salvation is not forever, we can actually lose it?

What he means is that Jesus restored the friendship that existed between man and God, and in doing so made it possible for man to be saved through a virtuous life.

AndyF

 

[AndyF]

Who am I ? Where do I come from? Where am I going?

I am me, LG.
I came from my ma & pa.
At the moment, I'm going to get myself a cuppa tea.
No big mystery or anything mystical behind my life.

I just watched "Lilies of the Field" last night starring Sidney Portier. There's a scene where Portier and a Mexican peasant are building a chapel for no pay. The peasant says he doesn't believe in God. Smith, Portier's character says "So why are you helping out here". He answers "Insurance".

I thought that line said everything.

Sure, your scenerio is perfectly safe if there isn't a creator that expects recognition and thanks for his bringing you,your tea,ma,pa in existance, and expects you to perform in a certain way, and doesn't have a uncomfortable eternal place where people who he doesn't approve of end up.

That's not religion, that's self preservation.

I'm not so self assured, even though I have my own unique thorns.

AndyF

 

[MikeyDB]

You are the universe

Where we came from.

Not many folk realize that the hemoglobin that circulates through the human body transporting oxygen contains elements that are atomically identical to the molecules found in the hearts of stars.

We are “star-stuff” made of the fundamental buliding blocks of the universe evolved and developed over billions of years.

As we transit this brief experience of existence we are compelled by the observations of beauty and wonder that surround us to ask of ourselves and each other…what or if there’s a “meaning” or a “purpose” to our existence.

The only meaning or purspose our existence has, is the meaning we created for our existence and the purposes we confront in answering the challenges that work as the great crucible of the universe. Everything that “exists” is on its way somewhere… From energy to matter from matter to energy from lower levels of potential to higher levels of potential and round and round it goes…

Human beings don’t see in ultraviolet or infra-red…other creatures that live with us on this planet do…

Human beings don’t hear infrasonic sound…sound at a frequency lower than the human ear is capable of detecting…other creatures…whales elephants are some…do…

Human beings create…for the act of creating…for the embodiment of the idea of beauty for the sounds of beauty and as access to those notions of consciousness for which no other pathway is available….

Very few creatures on this planet behave this way….

Permitting access to those feelings and incorporating them as the vital component of human-existence that they are….allows humankind to actualize dreams and contemplate walking among the stars….

This is an exciting wonderful experience for our kind.

Disappointment, heartache sadness and suffering accompany these more wonderful experiences as part of the crucible of life.

You can no more regard your existence as separate-from the existence experience and knowledge of every other human being than you could possibly be anything but a part of the greater whole.

Humankind is greater than the sum of his “parts”, and if it seems you must take a special path to realize your own beauty and the wonder of your own existence in this universe then go right ahead….just remember that not everyone will want or need the same path to reach the same destination…

 

[marygaspe]

You are RC - you are Sanctus - you are a healthy, handsome, well endowed male who has journeyed a curious road of life, but learning all the way.... have deep responsible love you nuture, still enjoy and love your fellow humans, and you have emerged from your long walk with the sun still shining down on your countenance..... is that not enough?
.

Is anything really enough/ I mean, outside even religious defintions, are we ever really happy, regardless of our religious beliefs or non-beliefs? It seems that part of the living we do is the changing and the striving...otherwise perhaps we would achieve nothing ever.

 

[marygaspe]

Humankind is greater than the sum of his “parts”, and if it seems you must take a special path to realize your own beauty and the wonder of your own existence in this universe then go right ahead….just remember that not everyone will want or need the same path to reach the same destination…

True, but you made I think an important point, this idea of being connected with everyone. the sum of the parts as it were. this is interesting to me, for regardless of any external labels we have, we really are beating with one heart and breathing with one breath. In an idealistci fashion, I wish we were truly and really one world, one people.