The New Paganism and the Culture of Death

[sanctus]

Your words only confirms the evil in paganism. It is self-made and self created. It appeals to people with no direction who prefer to satisfy their own interests instead of conforming and reforming themselves into decent people.
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The most common forms of neo-paganism include Wicca, Druidism, Asatru, and Goddess Worship.

Wicca is an alleged revival of a British nature religion involving witchcraft (wicca means magic), though it actually was invented less than a century ago and is not substantively based on any historic British paganism.

Druidism is an alleged revival of another (this time historically real) British paganism, though modern Druidism has very little in common with the historic form. For instance, modern Druids do not generally perform human sacrifice by burning people inside wicker structures or by ritually cutting victims’ throats and leaving their bodies in bogs.

Asatru (sometimes called Odinism, though really Odinism is a subset of Asatru) is an alleged revival of ancient Norse religion. Actually, it has more of a connection with historic Norse religion than the previous two neo-paganisms, because we know more about Norse religion. It didn’t die out until Christianity made literacy widespread in northern Europe.

Finally, Goddess Worship is an alleged revival of an ancient goddess-centred religion. It tends to be syncretistic, picking up bits pertaining to the worship of female deities from multiple ancient religions.

There are additional neo-pagan groups as well as many self-styled neo-pagans who don’t belong to any defined group. Though the actual number of neo-pagans is still quite small, they have achieved a disproportionate status.

 

[sanctus]

I know it comes from evil, from Satan and that its function is to turn people away from God and Holy Mother Church. I know it is a belief system based on narcisstic pleasures and is, for the most part, made up. I see you do not fit the general category of its membership. However, for the most part paganism appeals to those with low self-esteem and intelligence. It denies God because it is afraid of Him.

If the neo-pagan is hardened and hostile to monotheism, one might forcefully and bluntly point out the problems of paganism.

Though this is a risky strategy and is not likely to bear immediate fruit, it may be the best available option. It is especially risky with neo-pagans to whom one is related (cf. Matt 13:57).

One way of pointing out the defects of the neo-pagan position is by pointing out that Europe and surrounding areas were so thoroughly converted to Christianity that no surviving pagan liturgies remain. The deities of European paganism were not able to ensure the survival of their own worship. They lost and lost so badly that neo-pagans must make up their own liturgies and theologies.

"Why," one might ask, "should you worship such impotent deities? If they couldn’t protect their former worshipers at the heights of their powers, then how can they be trusted to protect you now?"

One might also pose the question, "Why was it that the followers of the ancient paganisms became Christian in the first place? What was it that they found deficient in paganism that led them to reject it and trust in Christ instead?"

 

[Vereya]

One way of pointing out the defects of the neo-pagan position is by pointing out that Europe and surrounding areas were so thoroughly converted to Christianity that no surviving pagan liturgies remain. The deities of European paganism were not able to ensure the survival of their own worship. They lost and lost so badly that neo-pagans must make up their own liturgies and theologies.

I can tell you why it happened, Sanctus. It happened through blood-shed. Your religion, you peaceful and loving christians, drowned my land in blood. The population of whole towns was slaughtered if they refused to convert to christianity, and that is a historical fact. That is why no surviving Pagan liturgies remain. Recently I read a scientific historical work, published in the 1970s, when all kinds of religion were considered "opium for the people" in my country, so it is in no way biased. And it said that when a Volkhv appeared in Novgorod about a century after the conversion to christianity, the official sent what would now be called a regiment to kill him. A regiment against just one person! He never had a chance. Christianity never faced such persecution. Your religion is soaked in blood. Remember the holy inquisition? Remember the crusades? And what about the native peoples in the Americans? Your christian peace-loving missionaries completely destroyed some of them. And after that you have the nerve to say that Paganism demands the blood of the innocent? Really, Sanctus, as we say in Russia, insolence is the second happiness. The first one, for many people.

"Why," one might ask, "should you worship such impotent deities? If they couldn’t protect their former worshipers at the heights of their powers, then how can they be trusted to protect you now?"

Deities are one thing, their followers are another. If you remove the rulers and the spiritual leaders of a nation by force, the remaining people will be scattered and helpless. That is what happened in my country.

One might also pose the question, "Why was it that the followers of the ancient paganisms became Christian in the first place? What was it that they found deficient in paganism that led them to reject it and trust in Christ instead?"

People mostly want to live, you know. No one wants to get killed.

 

[Vereya]

I know it comes from evil, from Satan and that its function is to turn people away from God and Holy Mother Church. I know it is a belief system based on narcisstic pleasures and is, for the most part, made up.

How do you know? Who told you that? Did you come to this conclusion yourself, or did you just accept what you were told when you were a kid? The main problem with christianity is that it puts blinders onto peoples' eyes, and they are unable to think for themselves anymore. That is very upsetting...

Your words only confirms the evil in paganism. It is self-made and self created. It appeals to people with no direction who prefer to satisfy their own interests instead of conforming and reforming themselves into decent people.

How do you know that I am not a decent person? Are you so well acquianted with me? I don't remember ever telling you that I have no direction. I do. In fact, after I turned Pagan, I see a lot of things in a clearer way. And I am in control of my life. And I move into the direction I choose.

 

[sanctus]

IYour religion is soaked in blood. Remember the holy inquisition? Remember the crusades? And what about the native peoples in the Americans? Your christian peace-loving missionaries completely destroyed some of them. And after that you have the nerve to say that Paganism demands the blood of the innocent? Really, Sanctus, as we say in Russia, insolence is the second happiness. The first one, for many people.
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The constant refrain of the neo-pagans, reminding us of blots on Church history. Hardly relevant for today's world. Who cares about the Crusades? I wasn't part of them. I consider neo-paganism a dangerous and evil system of beliefs that has its roots in self-centred modes of thought. It is a recent development born out of the 1960's "do your own thing" generation. Its' purpose is nothing more than creating fantasy and following what you FEEL like doing. Hardly an endorsement for rational religious belief systems.

 

[Chukcha]

How do you know? Who told you that? Did you come to this conclusion yourself, or did you just accept what you were told when you were a kid? The main problem with christianity is that it puts blinders onto peoples' eyes, and they are unable to think for themselves anymore. That is very upsetting...

Oh, another smartie :laughing7:
And the next step of your manaure would be showing the way to the Bright Communism, I know, Vereya, I read a lot of your posts, I sort of beginning to understand where you're coming from.
Your father's name wouldn't be Stalin or Brezhnev by any chance, would it?
I can smell the despot totallitarian here, it stinks already.

I don't remember ever telling you that I have no direction. I do. In fact, after I turned Pagan, I see a lot of things in a clearer way. And I am in control of my life. And I move into the direction I choose.

Yes, Vereya, only one little problem here, you move and you destroy, just like several months ago in one of the topics you praised the communistic system, that destroyed millions of peoples lives, families, beliefs and happiness, you're one of those who like to destroy, not to create. Those of your kind destroyed my faith and happiness and my childhood, and yet people like you still have the guts to continue, because you have no values in a human, you would turn every human on this planet into robots, just as long as they agree with your ideology. One day I hope it will bounce back at you, so that you see things through those people's eyes.
Shame on you. Here you have it.

 

[sanctus]

Yes, Vereya, only one little problem here, you move and you destroy, just like several months ago in one of the topics you praised the communistic system, that destroyed millions of peoples lives, families, beliefs and happiness, you're one of those who like to destroy, not to create. Those of your kind destroyed my faith and happiness and my childhood, and yet people like you still have the guts to continue, because you have no values in a human, you would turn every human on this planet into robots, just as long as they agree with your ideology. One day I hope it will bounce back at you, so that you see things through those people's eyes.
Shame on you. Here you have it.

Communism and paganism share the same foundation, both seek to deny God and create a human-centred system of beliefs. We have seen how successful communism was. Praise God it is on the delcine in our world!

 

[m_levesque]

St Paul obviously spent time with the Athenians, reading their poets and watching people at worship before daring to address them.
Only in this way can Christians begin to dialogue with pagans.
We need to put aside fifteen hundred years of offhanded dismissal and listen to pagans as having something intellectually serious and spiritually viable to say. This does not mean agreeing with them but having enough respect to listen and learn.
Tha is the only way we can find out abut them enough to dialouge with them to show them the errors of rejecting the truth of the Catholic Church.

 

[m_levesque]

Abortion on demand, no-fault divorce, legal prostitution, decriminalising homosexuality, government approved pornography spread abroad by a homosexual film censor, legal casinos and other invasive forms of gambling are just the tip of the iceberg and represent the cold breath of death of what once was a decent society. Secondly, the PC mindthink not only represents a break with the traditional values of the past, but equally the shattering of our Christian culture. There are essentially two streams in our society. There are those who believe in foundational Christian values; like thrift, hard work, assisting the poor and disadvantaged, maintaining a society free of moral evil and temptation for the younger generation and seeking to have an influence for good wherever there is opportunity. You will find that Christians out-give to the poor and needy over any other group in our society.
The other stream which more resembles a seeping sore are those who have imbibed the discredited theory of evolution; that man is just a more highly developed form of animal who has no soul and whose object in life is to find sensual happiness. The latter example really represents a new kind of paganism, a neo-paganism. A pagan can be defined as one “professing no religion; heathen”. A pagan can also be defined as a “hedonist”. The only apparent unlawful activities for the neo-pagan are those which could hurt another individual. In other words the neo-pagan would presumably not sanction paedophilia, because children would be damaged. Nonetheless the pagan conveniently withholds “personhood” from a baby still in his mother's womb, so that abortion is something the hedonist asserts does not harm a human being.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

i was kinda dancing around with paganism, reading stuff self sent me and whatever. but honestly it kinda freaked me out cos it seems too bizzare a religious group and one of the members here who is a pagan i am sad to say i am feling is very negative all the time so it kinda made me realize that this person wasnt happy and maybe it was because of this pagan stuff. catholics ive met sofar see pretty content. i started going to catholic church and theyre really friendly and welcoming.and the priest says i can sign up for something called an rcia.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...the discredited theory of evolution...

Discredited? By whom? When? I must have missed that. It's one of the great unifying ideas and one of the best attested, most firmly established theories in science, as firmly established as the heliocentric theory of the solar system. No reasonable person with any real knowledge of it doubts it. Even the previous Pope, in a weasely sort of way, accepted it.

 

[hermanntrude]

you guys are such drama queens. Paganism is a beleif system which deserves as much respect as anyone's, it is not the source of all evil in the world it's not dangerous and you are not better than a pagan. And when you start having trouble fighting your argument on the grounds of sense, you start to shout "commy! commy! She's a red!"

settle down.

believe what you want to believe and don't diss people for believing what THEY want to.

 

[Northboy]

Paganism in general is a silly, false set of beliefs that essentially comprise people of low IQ running about worshipping trees. We once had pagans living next door to us, and they were totally silly in their systems of belief and reminded me very much of cults. Understand that the so called pagans of today have no connecton to real pagans of the past. They believe as they want, and justify it by claiming to be people of the earth and air. Silly, all of it.

People of the Earth are God's People too...lot's of learning and discerning in their metaphors...

 

[marygaspe]

you guys are such drama queens. Paganism is a beleif system which deserves as much respect as anyone's, it is not the source of all evil in the world it's not dangerous and you are not better than a pagan. And when you start having trouble fighting your argument on the grounds of sense, you start to shout "commy! commy! She's a red!"

settle down.

believe what you want to believe and don't diss people for believing what THEY want to.

Look, there is nothing wrong with isolating sources of evil in society, and paganism is one of the main evils afflicting many of our young people today.

 

[hermanntrude]

Look, there is nothing wrong with isolating sources of evil in society, and paganism is one of the main evils afflicting many of our young people today.

what's your source? You can't just say things like that.

I could start a thread and say "Rabbits are the greatest source of evil in our society" I'd have as much reasoning as you do. Beliefs are beleifs and not to be scorned

 

[sanctus]

what's your source? You can't just say things like that.

I could start a thread and say "Rabbits are the greatest source of evil in our society" I'd have as much reasoning as you do. Beliefs are beleifs and not to be scorned

Really Hermann! But yet you and some others do not mind scorning Catholic beliefs!

 

[hermanntrude]

I have every respect for the beleifs. I honestly do. I don't say they're right, I don't say they're good, or based on any reliable evidence at all, but if you want to believe it that's fine, I won't call you evil. I do have a few hangups about the church itself and preists who kiddy-fiddle or worse, but i won't tar you all with the same brush.

 

[Chukcha]

you guys are such drama queens. Paganism is a beleif system which deserves as much respect as anyone's, it is not the source of all evil in the world it's not dangerous and you are not better than a pagan. And when you start having trouble fighting your argument on the grounds of sense, you start to shout "commy! commy! She's a red!"

No, wrong, I give a chance to know the person a bit better before I scream "commie", but when I see one I can smell them, I have serious commuphobia. These people are only for themselves, although they claim that the idea is to help each other. By helping each other they destroyed others lifes. I know a lot of chinese now who would say the same thing about communism in China, they live under fear, controll and slavery, a lot of them say it's like living in hell, things are getting better now, but as early as a decade ago things like this were really intense. Is anyone aware that human organs in china are most аccessible in the world? I heard stories about it. They killed the religious people for the organs, because they think they are bad influence for the nation. Apparently they would take the organs in a very rough way too, without any pain killers. I am not responsible for this info, but I did hear it from few people. In Communit Korea, apparently, their leader is f**king yong girls, and the girls families are to scared to announce it. And I belive those people who told me about it, I believe because I saw the evil with my own eyes, I believe it can happen.
Communist leaders seat on the comfy leather chairs, and monitoring the rest of the crowd, those who they choose to be next to their chair have it all, the others bite each other to death for a piece of meat in the cue. I hope very soon chinese communism falls too, a lot of people are praying for it there. So, offcourse you fear it, offcourse it irritates me when I hear people saying - Communism system had very good values. A lot of people wouldn't talk it out, because they still have that fear in them of being punished for freedom of speech. How can it be a good system?

settle down.

believe what you want to believe and don't diss people for believing what THEY want to.

That's not how it works with the totallitarian minded, you wouldn't really have too much choice, you would have to be allways worried about what you believe in. So long we don't these kind of people in power, we don't have a problem with free lifestyle.

 

[hermanntrude]

I admit. communism doesnt work. Mostly because people are greedy and selfish. not because communists are.

My point was that you can't just go handing out labels such as communist or pagan which say "this person is evil".

communism does have good values, but humans can't implement them.

pagans seem to have some nice values too, even modern-day pagans, and there's no way I'd stand in their way. they're not harming me, or you.

 

[selfactivated]

THIS is why I ignored this thread in the first place. But when I didnt take the bait the Priests harpies started a fire. I want everyone to notice the players in this drama. Priest starts thread, certain members stir the pot and others react. Im making wages that there are at least 3 "parishioners" of the priest's "church" that are members of this site.

Christions will always hate Pagans because deep down they have guilty conscious' about past lives thats why the scour so much. So light a candle for justice and one for clarity and another forforgivemess. Imbloc is coming and the Goddess will be full and loving.