How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
so do you think that people who didnt study should not ewven have opinions on the catholic faith?
sanctus, in terms of the bible...what was some of the opinions of the early people in the church about it? i mean, did they think it was total in the idea of god, or did they think it fantasy?
oh yeah sanctus, do you know what inerrancy means? i keep reading this word about bible..is it for the people?
Inerrancy applies to the text as written by man as God led them. Inerrancy is applicable only to the original text, as the copies are subject ot human error, although there is an astounding rate of accuracy between varient texts and what was originally written. We can apply inerrancy to the words that were written, even if they were mistaken details given in an account. Analogous, perhaps, to the "lies" that were told by Abraham concerning Sarah. Although the lies would not be attributed to the Holy Spirit, the account of those lies would be inerrant. I hope that this helps.
Here's some source information for you on Catholic teaching regarding inerrancy of Scripture ...
FROM PATRISTICS:
St. Clement of Rome, First Letter to the Corinthians (ca. AD 80):
Quote:
Brethren, be contentious and zealous for the things which lead to salvation! You have studied the Holy Scriptures, which are true and are of the Holy Spirit. You well know that nothing unjust or fraudulent is written in them. [45,1]
St. Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, (ca AD 155):
Quote:
[That the Scriptures contradict each other] -- I will not have the effrontery at any time either to suppose or to say such a thing. If a Scripture which appears to be of such a kind be brought forward, and there be a pretext for regarding it as contradictory, since I am totally convinced that no Scripture is contradictory to another, I shall admit instead that I do not understand what is spoken of, and shall strive to persuade those who assume that the Scritpures are contradictory to be rather of the same opinion as myself." [65]
From St. Irenaeus' Against Heresies (ca. AD 180/199):
Quote:
If, however, we are not able to find explanations for all those passages of Scripture which are investigated, we ought not on that account seek for another God besides Him who exists. This would indeed be the greatest impiety. Things of that kind we must leave to God, the One who made us, knowing full well that the Scriptures are certainly perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and by His Spirit. [2, 28, 2]
St. Hippolytus of Rome, Commentary on Daniel (ca. AD 204):
Quote:
Neither does Scripture falsify anything, nor does the Holy Spirit deceive His servants, the prophets, through whom He is pleased to announce to men the will of God. [4,6]
St. Augustine of Hippo, Letter to Faustus, AD 400, & Letter to St. Jerome, AD 405:
Quote:
"If we are perplexed by an apparent contradiction in Scripture, it is not allowable to say, The author of this book is mistaken; but either the manuscript is faulty, or the translation is wrong, or you have not understood." (Augustine,Reply to Faustus the Manichean,11:5(A.D. 400),in NPNF1,IV:1)
For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error. And if in these writings I am perplexed by anything which appears to me opposed to truth, I do not hesitate to suppose that either the Ms. is faulty, or the translator has not caught the meaning of what was said, or I myself have failed to understand it. (Ltr LXXXII. (A.D. 405.), reply to St. Jerome's letters LXXII., LXXV., and LXXXI)
talloola;761747[I said:
I believe that we are on two different topics, and the fault is mine. I never meant to suggest that the layperson could not hold an opinion on anything to do with the faith. What I did mean, specifically, was that when the faith is presented, it is as a whole. In other words, to be a church member would not qualify an individual to hold contrary opinions based on self-observation in matters of doctrine. For example, if the Church teaches that Mary remained ever-virgin till her earthly death, this is what the faithful Christian must accept and believe. Whatever the individual's opinion, if it contradicts Church doctrine, it is wrong. In this situation, one must bow to the education and knowledge of the Church to determine what is or is not true in the faith. Private interpretation, for example, of Sacred Scripture is contrary to the teachings of the Church.
For mapleleafgirl, more quotations to consider regarding Sacred Scriptures:
Free From All Error
"Ye are fond of contention, brethren, and full of zeal about things which do not pertain to salvation. Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit."
Clement,To the Corinthians(A.D. 98),in ANF,I:17
"And Trypho said, 'Being shaken by so many Scriptures, I know not what to say about the Scripture which Isaiah writes, in which God says that He gives not His glory to another, speaking thus 'I am the Lord God; this is my name; my glory will I not give to another, nor my virtues.'And I answered, 'If you spoke these words, Trypho, and then kept silence in simplicity and with no ill intent, neither repeating what goes before nor adding what comes after, you must be forgiven; but if[you have done so] because you imagined that you could throw doubt on the passage, in order that I might say the Scriptures contradicted each other, you have erred. But I shall not venture to suppose or to say such a thing; and if a Scripture which appears to be of such a kind be brought forward, and if there be a pretext[for saying] that it is contrary[to some other], since I am entirely convinced that no Scripture contradicts another, I shall admit rather that I do not understand what is recorded, and shall strive to persuade those who imagine that the Scriptures are contradictory, to be rather of the same opinion as myself."
Justin Martyr,Dialogue with Trypho,65(A.D. 155),in ANF,I:230
"If, however, we cannot discover explanations of all those things in Scripture which are made the subject of investigation, yet let us not on that account seek after any other God besides Him who really exists. For this is the very greatest impiety. We should leave things of that nature to God who created us, being most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit; but we, inasmuch as we are inferior to, and later in existence than, the Word of God and His Spirit, are on that very account destitute of the knowledge of His mysteries."
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,2,28:2(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:399
"It behoved, therefore, that he should the rather become a scholar of God in this matter of legislation, as he himself confessed that in no other way could he gain accurate information than by God's teaching him through the law. And did not the poets Homer and Hesiod and Orpheus profess that they themselves had been instructed by Divine Providence? Moreover, it is said that among your writers there were prophets and prognosticators, and that those wrote accurately: who were informed by them. How much more, then, shall we know the truth who are instructed by the holy prophets, who were possessed by the Holy Spirit of God! On this account all the prophets spoke harmoniously and in agreement with one another, and foretold the things that would come to pass in all the world. For the very accomplishment of predicted and already consummated events should demonstrate to those who are fond of information, yea rather, who are lovers of truth, that those things are really true which they declared concerning the epochs and eras before the deluge: to wit, how the years have run on since the world was created until now, so as to manifest the ridiculous mendacity of your authors, and show that their statements are not true."
Theophilus of Antioch,To Autolycus,17(A.D. 181),in ANF,II:116
"Therefore they[the followers of Artemon's heresy] have laid their hands boldly upon the Divine Scriptures, alleging that they have corrected them...But how daring this offense is, it is not likely that they themselves are ignorant. For either they do not believe that the Divine Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and thus are unbelievers, or else they think themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and in that case what else are they than demoniacs?"
Hippolytus of Rome,Fragment in Eusebius' EH 5:28(A.D. 230),in NPNF2,I:248
"In the case I have supposed where the historians desire to teach us by an image what they have seen in their mind, their meaning would be found, if the four were wise, to exhibit no disagreement; and we must understand that with the four Evangelists it is not otherwise."
Origen,Commentary on John,10:4(A.D. 232),in ANF,X:383
" 'Blessed are the peacemakers. ...' To the man who is a peacemaker in either sense there is in the Divine oracles nothing crooked or perverse, for they are all plain to those who understand. And because to such an one there is nothing crooked or perverse, he sees therefore abundance of peace in all the Scriptures, even in those which seem to be at conflict, and in contradiction with one another."
Origen,Commentary on Matthew,2(A.D. 244),in ANF,X:413
"Now it is the opinion of some, that the Scriptures do not agree together, or that God, Who gave the commandment, is false. But there is no disagreement whatever, far from it, neither can the Father, Who is truth, lie; 'for it is bimpossible that God should lie,' as Paul affirms. But all these things are plain to those who rightly consider them, and to those who receive with faith the writings of the law."
Athanasius,To Rufinus,Epistle 19:3(A.D. 347),in NPNF2,IV:546
"And nothing of discrepancy will be found in Sacred Scripture, nor will there be found any statement in opposition to any other statement."
Epiphanius,Panarion,70:7(A.D. 377),in JUR,II:75
"I am not, I repeat, so ignorant as to suppose that any of the Lord's words is either in need of correction or is not divinely inspired."
Jerome,To Marcellus,27:1(A.D. 385),in NPNF2,VI:44
"I have been reading also some writings, ascribed to you, on the Epistles of the Apostle Paul. In reading your exposition of the Epistle to the Galatians, that passage came to my hand in which the Apostle Peter is called back from a course of dangerous dissimulation. To find there the defence of falsehood undertaken, whether by you, a man of such weight, or by any author (if it is the writing of another), causes me, I must confess, great sorrow, until at least those things which decide my opinion in the matter are refuted, if indeed they admit of refutation. For it seems to me that most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books: that is to say, that the men by whom the Scripture has been given to us, and committed to writing, did put down in these books anything false. It is one question whether it may be at any time the duty of a good man to deceive; but it is another question whether it can have been the duty of a writer of Holy Scripture to deceive: nay, it is not another question -- it is no question at all. For if you once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority 'one false statement as made in the way of duty,1 there will not be left a single sentence of those books which, if appearing to any one difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away, as a statement in which, intentionally, and under a sense of duty, the author declared what was not true."
Augustine,To Jerome,Epistle 28,3:3(A.D. 395),in NPNF1,I:251-252
"For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error. And if in these writings I am perplexed by anything which appears to me opposed to truth, I do not hesitate to suppose that either the Ms. is faulty, or the translator has not caught the meaning of what was said, or I myself have failed to understand it."
Augustine,To Jerome,Epistle 82,1:3(A.D. 405),in NPNF1,I:350
"If we are perplexed by an apparent contradiction in Scripture, it is not allowable to say, The author of this book is mistaken; but either the manuscript is faulty, or the translation is wrong, or you have not understood."
Augustine,Reply to Faustus the Manichean,11:5(A.D. 400),in NPNF1,IV:180
Free From All Error
"Ye are fond of contention, brethren, and full of zeal about things which do not pertain to salvation. Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit."
Clement,To the Corinthians(A.D. 98),in ANF,I:17
"And Trypho said, 'Being shaken by so many Scriptures, I know not what to say about the Scripture which Isaiah writes, in which God says that He gives not His glory to another, speaking thus 'I am the Lord God; this is my name; my glory will I not give to another, nor my virtues.'And I answered, 'If you spoke these words, Trypho, and then kept silence in simplicity and with no ill intent, neither repeating what goes before nor adding what comes after, you must be forgiven; but if[you have done so] because you imagined that you could throw doubt on the passage, in order that I might say the Scriptures contradicted each other, you have erred. But I shall not venture to suppose or to say such a thing; and if a Scripture which appears to be of such a kind be brought forward, and if there be a pretext[for saying] that it is contrary[to some other], since I am entirely convinced that no Scripture contradicts another, I shall admit rather that I do not understand what is recorded, and shall strive to persuade those who imagine that the Scriptures are contradictory, to be rather of the same opinion as myself."
Justin Martyr,Dialogue with Trypho,65(A.D. 155),in ANF,I:230
"If, however, we cannot discover explanations of all those things in Scripture which are made the subject of investigation, yet let us not on that account seek after any other God besides Him who really exists. For this is the very greatest impiety. We should leave things of that nature to God who created us, being most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit; but we, inasmuch as we are inferior to, and later in existence than, the Word of God and His Spirit, are on that very account destitute of the knowledge of His mysteries."
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,2,28:2(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:399
"It behoved, therefore, that he should the rather become a scholar of God in this matter of legislation, as he himself confessed that in no other way could he gain accurate information than by God's teaching him through the law. And did not the poets Homer and Hesiod and Orpheus profess that they themselves had been instructed by Divine Providence? Moreover, it is said that among your writers there were prophets and prognosticators, and that those wrote accurately: who were informed by them. How much more, then, shall we know the truth who are instructed by the holy prophets, who were possessed by the Holy Spirit of God! On this account all the prophets spoke harmoniously and in agreement with one another, and foretold the things that would come to pass in all the world. For the very accomplishment of predicted and already consummated events should demonstrate to those who are fond of information, yea rather, who are lovers of truth, that those things are really true which they declared concerning the epochs and eras before the deluge: to wit, how the years have run on since the world was created until now, so as to manifest the ridiculous mendacity of your authors, and show that their statements are not true."
Theophilus of Antioch,To Autolycus,17(A.D. 181),in ANF,II:116
"Therefore they[the followers of Artemon's heresy] have laid their hands boldly upon the Divine Scriptures, alleging that they have corrected them...But how daring this offense is, it is not likely that they themselves are ignorant. For either they do not believe that the Divine Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and thus are unbelievers, or else they think themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and in that case what else are they than demoniacs?"
Hippolytus of Rome,Fragment in Eusebius' EH 5:28(A.D. 230),in NPNF2,I:248
"In the case I have supposed where the historians desire to teach us by an image what they have seen in their mind, their meaning would be found, if the four were wise, to exhibit no disagreement; and we must understand that with the four Evangelists it is not otherwise."
Origen,Commentary on John,10:4(A.D. 232),in ANF,X:383
" 'Blessed are the peacemakers. ...' To the man who is a peacemaker in either sense there is in the Divine oracles nothing crooked or perverse, for they are all plain to those who understand. And because to such an one there is nothing crooked or perverse, he sees therefore abundance of peace in all the Scriptures, even in those which seem to be at conflict, and in contradiction with one another."
Origen,Commentary on Matthew,2(A.D. 244),in ANF,X:413
"Now it is the opinion of some, that the Scriptures do not agree together, or that God, Who gave the commandment, is false. But there is no disagreement whatever, far from it, neither can the Father, Who is truth, lie; 'for it is bimpossible that God should lie,' as Paul affirms. But all these things are plain to those who rightly consider them, and to those who receive with faith the writings of the law."
Athanasius,To Rufinus,Epistle 19:3(A.D. 347),in NPNF2,IV:546
"And nothing of discrepancy will be found in Sacred Scripture, nor will there be found any statement in opposition to any other statement."
Epiphanius,Panarion,70:7(A.D. 377),in JUR,II:75
"I am not, I repeat, so ignorant as to suppose that any of the Lord's words is either in need of correction or is not divinely inspired."
Jerome,To Marcellus,27:1(A.D. 385),in NPNF2,VI:44
"I have been reading also some writings, ascribed to you, on the Epistles of the Apostle Paul. In reading your exposition of the Epistle to the Galatians, that passage came to my hand in which the Apostle Peter is called back from a course of dangerous dissimulation. To find there the defence of falsehood undertaken, whether by you, a man of such weight, or by any author (if it is the writing of another), causes me, I must confess, great sorrow, until at least those things which decide my opinion in the matter are refuted, if indeed they admit of refutation. For it seems to me that most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books: that is to say, that the men by whom the Scripture has been given to us, and committed to writing, did put down in these books anything false. It is one question whether it may be at any time the duty of a good man to deceive; but it is another question whether it can have been the duty of a writer of Holy Scripture to deceive: nay, it is not another question -- it is no question at all. For if you once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority 'one false statement as made in the way of duty,1 there will not be left a single sentence of those books which, if appearing to any one difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away, as a statement in which, intentionally, and under a sense of duty, the author declared what was not true."
Augustine,To Jerome,Epistle 28,3:3(A.D. 395),in NPNF1,I:251-252
"For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error. And if in these writings I am perplexed by anything which appears to me opposed to truth, I do not hesitate to suppose that either the Ms. is faulty, or the translator has not caught the meaning of what was said, or I myself have failed to understand it."
Augustine,To Jerome,Epistle 82,1:3(A.D. 405),in NPNF1,I:350
"If we are perplexed by an apparent contradiction in Scripture, it is not allowable to say, The author of this book is mistaken; but either the manuscript is faulty, or the translation is wrong, or you have not understood."
Augustine,Reply to Faustus the Manichean,11:5(A.D. 400),in NPNF1,IV:180
An offering of yourself is dying so that CHRIST may live.
It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me said St. Paul.
It hit me hard when I heard a priest preach about that.
I realized, wow... It really is JESUS who lives. I die, so that He may live.
It's the mystical union that St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila talked about.
If you love, Jesus lives.
If you do not love, Jesus does not live.
If you love someone, you love Jesus (in that particular person)
If you do not love someone, you do not love Jesus (in that particular person)
We have so that we might give.
And Jesus is a known multiplier
Offer all through the Blessed Mother, she purifies all, even our intentions. Her Heart BURNS with love hotter than the Seraphim. Enter in. She only brings you to Jesus. It is Her nature. Just as it is the nature of a cat to sleep, it is the nature of Mary to bring you to Jesus
Gotcha. Frankly, given two opinions, one offered by any member of this forum, or one offered by a man I know is a priest,I am going to autmoatically assume person A is wrong and the priest is correct. I mean, really people, in matters of faith and doctrine one has to assume the clergy of the Church have the correct answers!
As far back as I can remember, age 4 or 5, I have assumed that God existed and that there was an afterlife. And I always assumed that God and the dead could literally read our minds, and look into our hearts as if looking through a clear pane of glass. And that even if a person just died this morning, they could access our entire past in some form alike our reading a history book, or a biography.
So, since I was 4 or 5, I have, when thinking, habitually at the same time been talking to God and to the dead.
For example, when I think to myself, " I like her " I am at the same time speaking to God and Joan of Arc, etc., etc. , and saying , " I like her."
And I assume that even if they aren't paying attention at the moment, or in some cases not even dead yet ( ! ) at some point in the future they will " hear " everything I said / thought.
I am often alone, so , sometimes I talk to God or Joan of Arc or a dozen deceased all day long.
Is this unusual?
Or worse, is it even somehow un-Christian / un- Catholic?
Because it does appear to me that others, many , many others, are not doing the same thing.
Do you not think that God, Mary, the saints, or the general "passed on " casually liscen in on your thoughts habitually?
For one thing, a minor detail, I tend to refer to the dead in the present tense. And when I do, people look at me like I'm mad.
So I explain to them that I think the dead are very much alive, and can hear everything we think, and see everything we do.
And then they STILL look at me like I'm off my rocker!
Is it that people pretend to believe in God and life after death but really don't? Am I imagining their response?
Or is it that they believe something very different to what I have described?
If so, then what?
I really wonder.....
Don't get me wrong, I see good reason for formalized, ritualized prayer.
Indeed, I love praying the rosary.
But still, when you think, don't you think you are thinking to someone or many someones besides just yourself?
And what's this stuff about talking to yourself, some kind of inside joke? You don't talk to yourself? You don't think?
I don't know of any way to keep myself from thinking without some serious sedative drugs.
Some of these subtle things really stump me.
I'll mention just one more example - I like to study criminal justice issues, but maybe to say that I "like" it is something of a misnomer.
Because I happen to believe that only Jesus and Mary were perfect humans. So I assume that the rest of us are up to our necks in blood and filth.
And when I turn to the Bible - perhaps I am completely misreading it - I see nothing to contradict that assumption. It does NOT seem to say ANYWHERE " well, half of you, or one-third of you, or one- one-hundredth of you are perfectly fine and dandy, so you can quit reading this and go about your buisiness."
So it really puzzles me, and then consequently disturbes me greatly emotionally, when people , with every appearance of casual ease, throw around words like " criminal ".
( granted, yes I do make distinctions myself, for example I don't think anyone has heard me say a good word about police in ten years... but then I don't casually suggest torturing police either. )
Granted, one must allow that people are sometimes very good actors.
But even taking that into account, it is hard to believe so many people could appear so relazed in speaking in such a manner if they actually believed that there were observers in heaven who KNOW ALL ABOUT YOUR PAST and know that what you are saying out loud simply isn't true to your own knowledge.
I know these questions are in some ways vague or complex, but I would appreciate any feedback.
No you love that person and the attributes that person has that attracted you to that person, there is no Jesus in that equation.
That and most of the arguement here, is conjecture based on indoctrination and nothing more.
Make of it what you will....
This thread has been an opportunity for the "believer" to make his case....
I for one don't think that "case" has been made. An alternate perspective might be that one of the longest celebrated religious paradigms in existence (RC) keeps reappearing in the threads of forums and discussion boards because (aside from the need to proselytize) it has become aware that it's own history of hypocrisy lies and prejudice are its own worst enemy. Where are the Moslems and the Buddhists or the Taoists here at Canadian Content?
I don't believe in this god that's the focus of the good Sanctus's rhetoric nor do I accept that the "idea" of compassion tolerance and foregiveness presented by the believer can be granted more than a miniscule ort of authority...based on the history of mankind and the dynamics of destruction perpetuated under the guise of "belief" in an omnipotent creator being....
As a Taoist I believe it's everyone's unique right and responsibility to come to terms with their humanity and the interrelatedness of all living creatures by whatever metric they choose...by embracing or adopting whatever spiritual ideation convinces them as individuals as a life-promulgating "positive" influence in their lives...
I don't attempt to convince anyone that they should kneel down before the writing of Lao Tzu or repeat the 'scriptures' of the Tao Te Ching, I invite people who are interested to examine those things but I also don't threaten the non-Taoist the non-Christian (or Non-Catholic) of everlasting torment in the hell of my minds creation as extrapolated from the words of ancient Chinese thinkers...
Leave the hell-fire and brimstone, the vengeful angry god wrapped up in the "kind and loving compassionate foregiving god of the Catholic and the Protestant believer to those who embrace the belief and strategy that if you invite people to consider themselves as fundamentally flawed beings, inherently "sinful" and with only the wrath of some god-being to look forward to if they don't surrender their thinking to my particular "god" to the theists and the deists....
It's little wonder that "guilt" is the hallmark of the believer community. You're to believe that you're guilty of exercising a free-will granted you by this ethereal entity...and coming up with the "wrong" answer!
Now we have folk talking about the Bible with our in-house expert carefully managing the interpretation and understanding of these writings....to achieve an unbiased and freely-arrived-at comprehension...or a manipulated and massaged fluidity that has demonstrated the preparedness of this religion to flout the law of mankind and involve itself in shaping the future of mankind even when we acknowledge the hypocrisy and failures that pock-mark human history for the past two thousand years and which has failed and continues to fail even living up to its overarching theme....
Waste of time....
This thread has been an opportunity for the "believer" to make his case....
I for one don't think that "case" has been made. An alternate perspective might be that one of the longest celebrated religious paradigms in existence (RC) keeps reappearing in the threads of forums and discussion boards because (aside from the need to proselytize) it has become aware that it's own history of hypocrisy lies and prejudice are its own worst enemy. Where are the Moslems and the Buddhists or the Taoists here at Canadian Content?
I don't believe in this god that's the focus of the good Sanctus's rhetoric nor do I accept that the "idea" of compassion tolerance and foregiveness presented by the believer can be granted more than a miniscule ort of authority...based on the history of mankind and the dynamics of destruction perpetuated under the guise of "belief" in an omnipotent creator being....
As a Taoist I believe it's everyone's unique right and responsibility to come to terms with their humanity and the interrelatedness of all living creatures by whatever metric they choose...by embracing or adopting whatever spiritual ideation convinces them as individuals as a life-promulgating "positive" influence in their lives...
I don't attempt to convince anyone that they should kneel down before the writing of Lao Tzu or repeat the 'scriptures' of the Tao Te Ching, I invite people who are interested to examine those things but I also don't threaten the non-Taoist the non-Christian (or Non-Catholic) of everlasting torment in the hell of my minds creation as extrapolated from the words of ancient Chinese thinkers...
Leave the hell-fire and brimstone, the vengeful angry god wrapped up in the "kind and loving compassionate foregiving god of the Catholic and the Protestant believer to those who embrace the belief and strategy that if you invite people to consider themselves as fundamentally flawed beings, inherently "sinful" and with only the wrath of some god-being to look forward to if they don't surrender their thinking to my particular "god" to the theists and the deists....
It's little wonder that "guilt" is the hallmark of the believer community. You're to believe that you're guilty of exercising a free-will granted you by this ethereal entity...and coming up with the "wrong" answer!
Now we have folk talking about the Bible with our in-house expert carefully managing the interpretation and understanding of these writings....to achieve an unbiased and freely-arrived-at comprehension...or a manipulated and massaged fluidity that has demonstrated the preparedness of this religion to flout the law of mankind and involve itself in shaping the future of mankind even when we acknowledge the hypocrisy and failures that pock-mark human history for the past two thousand years and which has failed and continues to fail even living up to its overarching theme....
Waste of time....
I thought it right to re-post your whole post to say just a few words in response:
“If” understood that Jesus was the Son of God, then Jesus was the only Son of God made perfect.
The first man Adam was made perfect, much as a new-born babe, but as he begins to partake of the tree of knowledge sin was exposed and found him-self less then perfect.
Found him-self naked. Or in other words: a sinner.
The antidote for that condition is a New Adam made perfect, but with power to overcome that which exposed man kind to sin. (Enter: Jesus)
Forget everybody else!
Therefore “if” all humanity regardless of stated belief, understood that, then in the New Adam, they would find God, life, peace and tranquility.
They would become “new” creatures in this new Adam, having “direct” excess to God through Jesus the mediator.
As for all non-believers in Jesus and in God, well, that Ok by me. I know of the source and the creator personally and without a doubt, I have the confidence that all Humanity (non-believers as well) is and are covered by the blood of Jesus.
Having said all that then, I am at a great advantage of being a friend to all my fellow human beings, understanding that each in their own way view God in a different perspective, giving me the opportunity to be a witness to the attributes of that God.
But if, I could persuade “some” to embrace Jesus as their Lord and Savior, their hearts soul would find peace an enjoying the benefits of the Lord’s Kingdom, as like a child playing in the safety of the play ground of God.
But: to each their own. All I can do is tolove you!
Peace>>>AJ
I see where your going with this, and yes, I agree with you, if one does believe and participate in their
religion and the teachings of their church, one should definitely appeciate and believe and practice
those teachings. BUT I'm sure there are people in that position who are "doubters" and always ask
questions and challenge. Where do they belong, and how do they muddle along in that position. Do
they just keep going to some sort of "classes" and learn, so that they can conform or? Do they just
become a "pain" in the "whatever" of the church, or are told to "get lost" and go somewhere else.
Glad you asked.
Every individual regardless of belief structure has in innate ability to relate to something greater than them selves. (An unseen entity)
Not knowing who or what this unseen entity is, leaves the definition to the illusions of the carnal mind. Hence: Greek Mythologies and all of the various religious beliefs in the world. All are carnal minded creations of what they believe, think, of this unseen entity is.
But because, I have a biblical reference to this unseen entity, know Him, it, by name and have actually experienced His presence in my life am of all man, a rich man.
I have available to me all of the Godly attributes encased in a body of decaying flesh, subject to all the hell that can come of it and yet not perfect in standard to Gods requirements.
God’s requirement is righteousness which unfortunately, none of us can attain in the flesh.
Hence: all the various beliefs in the trying.
The benefits are: comfort in my hellish trials of life, peace in tribulations, and contentment with what I have, (sufferings, injustices) and above all of that, the ability to help out those who have trouble coping with life’s problems. (Excercised as love.)
And that can only be done as a member of His Kingdom, or as they say, “ ah child of the king”.
Peace>>>AJ
A good point m-levesque. Mary has such a huge role in our salvation and the history of the faith. Her sinless grace permeates the Church. I personally am a very strong advocate of the rosary and Marian devotions. All men come to Christ by her grace.