The New York Declaration.

[Ron in Regina]

Youre confused.

Perhaps as this unrolls over the course of the next handful of days or weeks (or years) it will become clearer, the further they get into the “negotiation” phase of Trump’s ultimatum?


Hamas remaining in Gaza armed, and in power, isn’t going to lead to peace in the Middle East, in my opinion anyway, doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the peace agreement that they’re supposed to have agreed to the Friday before last Friday, & that supposedly damn near everybody else concurred was the best chance at a path for peace. This language is confusing:


Both Trump and Netanyahu made clear that they were not offering Hamas a choice in the matter. If the group refused, Trump told reporters, “Israel would have my full backing to finish the job of destroying the threat of Hamas.

“But I hope that we’re going to have a deal for peace, and if Hamas rejects the deal … Bibi, you’d have our full backing to do what you would have to do.”

The Israeli prime minister said ominously: “If Hamas rejects your plan, Mr President, or if they supposedly accept it and then do everything to counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself. This can be done the easy way or it can be done the hard way, but it will be done.”

Netanyahu added: “We’d prefer the easy way but it has to be done. All these goals must be achieved because we didn’t fight this horrible fight, sacrifice the finest of our young men to have Hamas stay in Gaza and threaten us again and again and again with these horrific massacres.”

The plan also demands that Hamas lay down its arms and renounce governance in the strip. Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence would be given amnesty to remain in Gaza or they would be granted safe passage to receiving countries.

Trump’s plan would also establish a temporary governing board that would be headed by Trump himself and include Tony Blair, the former British prime minister.

Trump said: “To ensure the success of this effort, my plan calls for a new international oversight body – the Board of Peace – which will be headed, not at my request … by a gentleman known as President Donald J Trump of the United States.”

Trump and Netanyahu to Hamas: accept Gaza peace plan or face consequences

Pair say proposal represents new chapter but Israeli PM threatens to ‘finish the job’ if Hamas officials fail to agree

www.theguardian.com

Youre confused.

Someone is, might as well be me.

 

[petros]

Perhaps as this unrolls over the course of the next handful of days or weeks (or years) it will become clearer, the further they get into the “negotiation” phase of Trump’s ultimatum?
View attachment 31532
View attachment 31533
Hamas remaining in Gaza armed, and in power, isn’t going to lead to peace in the Middle East, in my opinion anyway, doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the peace agreement that they’re supposed to have agreed to the Friday before last Friday, & that supposedly damn near everybody else concurred was the best chance at a path for peace. This language is confusing:
View attachment 31534
View attachment 31535
Both Trump and Netanyahu made clear that they were not offering Hamas a choice in the matter. If the group refused, Trump told reporters, “Israel would have my full backing to finish the job of destroying the threat of Hamas.

“But I hope that we’re going to have a deal for peace, and if Hamas rejects the deal … Bibi, you’d have our full backing to do what you would have to do.”

The Israeli prime minister said ominously: “If Hamas rejects your plan, Mr President, or if they supposedly accept it and then do everything to counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself. This can be done the easy way or it can be done the hard way, but it will be done.”

Netanyahu added: “We’d prefer the easy way but it has to be done. All these goals must be achieved because we didn’t fight this horrible fight, sacrifice the finest of our young men to have Hamas stay in Gaza and threaten us again and again and again with these horrific massacres.”

The plan also demands that Hamas lay down its arms and renounce governance in the strip. Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence would be given amnesty to remain in Gaza or they would be granted safe passage to receiving countries.

Trump’s plan would also establish a temporary governing board that would be headed by Trump himself and include Tony Blair, the former British prime minister.

Trump said: “To ensure the success of this effort, my plan calls for a new international oversight body – the Board of Peace – which will be headed, not at my request … by a gentleman known as President Donald J Trump of the United States.”

Trump and Netanyahu to Hamas: accept Gaza peace plan or face consequences

Pair say proposal represents new chapter but Israeli PM threatens to ‘finish the job’ if Hamas officials fail to agree

www.theguardian.com

Someone is, might as well be me.

Trump and Netanyahu had to eat Euro, Arab, Commonwealth (Putin, Xi, Modi) Pope and APP crow. They gave Trump a "gimme" but no peas prize due to complicity in genocide.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Trump and Netanyahu had to eat Euro, Arab, Commonwealth (Putin, Xi, Modi) Pope and APP crow. They gave Trump a "gimme" but no peas prize due to complicity in genocide.

So in Trump and Bibi eating Euro-Arab-etc…crow, does that mean Hamas stays in power in Gaza, armed, without oversight, etc…? Is that what we’re seeing before phase one of this 20 point peace plan has been completed? If so, that’s not a peace plan, but Hamas business as usual until the next Oct 7th which they promised to do almost 2 years ago. Wouldn’t that mean that Hamas has effectively rejected this peace plan almost in its entirety with the exception of a few cherry picked points?

There is no clear indication who will rule Gaza when the conflict ends. Netanyahu, Trump, Western and Arab states have ruled out a role for Hamas, which has run Gaza since driving out Palestinian rivals in 2007 = murdering them.

Trump’s original plan envisions a role for the Palestinian Authority but only after it has undergone major reforms. Look’n at you UNRWA.

The next phase of Trump’s plan calls for an international body – the “Board of Peace” – to play a role in Gaza’s post-conflict administration. Under the plan, it would be led by Trump and include former British Prime Minister Tony Blair…starting when?

Hamas has said it would relinquish Gaza governance only to a Palestinian technocrat government supervised by the Palestinian Authority and backed by Arab and Muslim countries. It rejects any role for Blair or foreign rule of Gaza.

What’s in Trump’s Gaza peace deal? Here are the details so far - National | Globalnews.ca

Although Israel and Hamas have agreed to the terms of the first phase of a Gaza peace plan, the two-year old conflict may still be far from over.

globalnews.ca

 

[petros]

So in Trump and Bibi eating Euro-Arab-etc…crow, does that mean Hamas stays in power in Gaza, armed, without oversight, etc…? Is that what we’re seeing before phase one of this 20 point peace plan has been completed?

Nope. Rebranding. Hamas will break into special interest parties or perhaps aligning with other radical semitic groups even Israeli radical Jew Power.

Psssst its called Democracy.

Alle vous en, vite vite mon ami.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Nope. Rebranding. Hamas will break into special interest parties or perhaps aligning with other radical semitic groups even Israeli radical Jew Power.

Psssst its called Democracy.

Alle vous en, vite vite mon ami.

Ahhh…a rose by any other name, etc…Well, that’s interesting and was speculated upon in an article I read a while back. They had said that others had done it, and they weren’t sure if Hamas was capable of it, but anything is possible.

According to the current peace plan, those in Hamas that disarm and commit to a peaceful existence with their neighbours will be given amnesty and allowed to stay…& that begs a new question. Given amnesty from what (?) as in “Hamas members would be offered amnesty if they committed to peaceful co-existence, or would be provided safe passage to another country. No Palestinians would be forced to leave Gaza and those who wished to leave would be free to return.” ???

It keeps getting thrown around that the ICJ has a arrest warrant out for Bibi & other Israeli politicians, etc…but now that Palestine with whatever borders, governed by whomever eventually, has been recognized as a state…wouldn’t it fall under the same rules as every other state in the eyes of the same ICJ?

Can Trumps peace plan give amnesty to supersede the International Court of Justice for Hamas, being one side in this current and most recent goat rodeo? If so, can this Peace Plan give amnesty to one side, but not the other, if that’s what this amnesty being offered actually means???

Under the Genocide Convention, a state is responsible not only for acts committed by its agents, but also for failing to prevent or punish genocide committed on its territory or under its control.

Genocide Convention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What makes this even more striking is that the Palestinian Authority acceded to the Genocide Convention in 2014. By doing so, it accepted the duty to prevent and punish genocide. Having claimed the benefits and status of a state party, it cannot now evade the responsibilities that come with it.

(Israel also signed onto it 75 years ago)

The acts of October 7, which Hamas vowed to repeat “again and again” until Israel was annihilated, satisfy every element of genocidal intent described in Article II of that Convention…so now what?

Nope. Rebranding. Hamas will break into special interest parties or perhaps aligning with other radical semitic groups even Israeli radical Jew Power.

Huh. OK, “if” the act of recognition is to mean anything, it must bring with it the same standards of accountability applied to every state under the Genocide Convention. Otherwise, recognition becomes performative — a political indulgence that undermines the very rule of law it claims to uphold.

You simply cannot have it both ways. Either the Palestinian Authority is the governing representative of this so-called state, in which case it bears responsibility for the genocide carried out from the territory it claims, or Hamas is the ruling authority, in which case these governments have legitimized a terrorist organization.

Either way, the consequence of this recognition is that “Palestine,” as a self-proclaimed state, must bear legal responsibility for the crimes committed from its territory, including the genocidal massacre of October 7.

This legal logic is unavoidable. Recognition is the act that transforms a political claim into a juridical reality. Once that threshold is crossed, obligations arise. A state recognized as such must answer for the actions of those operating under its flag or from its territory. Anything less would hollow out international law and render the Genocide Convention a political tool rather than a binding instrument.

This would force an uncomfortable reckoning for those same governments that so eagerly joined the diplomatic campaign against Israel…

…due to complicity in genocide…

It would compel them to face the legal and moral implications of their decision, and to acknowledge that recognition carries responsibility as well as rhetoric. Who, in the UN sideshow hasn’t picked a side in this goat rodeo?

Opinion: Now that you've recognized Palestine, try it for genocide in The Hague — National Post

It must bear responsibility for the genocidal massacre of October 7

apple.news

Recognition means owning that record. It means accepting that a state must answer for its crimes, and that the victims of October 7 — the murdered, the raped, the burned and the still-held captive — deserve justice as much as any other victims of genocide.

For too long, the international system has indulged the hypocrisy that Palestinians are eternal victims without agency, while Israel alone bears responsibility for every tragedy in the region.

Recognition of Palestine cannot mean impunity for terror cloaked in sovereignty. It must mean responsibility. Either international law applies to all — or it applies to no one.

So, about 3/4’s of the UN and its member nations would be…guilty of…in the eyes of the ICJ of…complicity in genocide?

The credibility of the international legal order depends on consistency. Those who claim to uphold it cannot invoke the law for political expediency to condemn Israel, while shielding the Palestinians (or themselves potentially due to complicity) from accountability for the atrocities of October 7.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The Israeli government says it expects all 20-ish living hostages held in Gaza to be released on Monday morning and that it is preparing for the release of about 2,000 Palestinian detainees at the current exchange rate, the crucial next phase of the ceasefire deal that could end the two-year war in Gaza.

“We are expecting all 20 of our living hostages to be released together at one time to the Red Cross and transported among six to eight vehicles,” said the Israeli government spokesperson Shosh Bedrosian.

Israel expects all 20 living hostages to be freed from Gaza on Monday morning — Guardian US

Government says it is also preparing for release of 2,000 Palestinian detainees in crucial next phase of ceasefire deal

apple.news

Israel will also release nearly 2,000 Palestinian detainees, the vast majority of whom will be sent to Gaza or exiled to neighbouring countries, once Israeli hostages are back on Israeli soil.

The hostage-detainee swap is the first step in Donald Trump’s 20-point plan to end the war in Gaza. A ceasefire has been in place since Friday afternoon, but most of the details of the US president’s proposals need to be negotiated before a lasting end to the war is established?

 

[Ron in Regina]

President Trump addressed the Israeli parliament after all 20 remaining hostages alive in Gaza returned to Israel, closing a chapter in the two-year war.

Gaza Hostages Are Freed, Ending Two-Year Captivity — The Wall Street Journal

President Trump hails the cease-fire as he addresses the Israeli parliament, after Netanyahu said no American president had done more for Israel.

apple.news

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

President Trump addressed the Israeli parliament after all 20 remaining hostages alive in Gaza returned to Israel, closing a chapter in the two-year war.

I'd say it's more like "closing a paragraph in this two-year chapter of the seventy-some year war."

 

[Ron in Regina]

I'd say it's more like "closing a paragraph in this two-year chapter of the seventy-some year war."

Baby steps leading to the next phase in the negotiation of Trumps ultimatum in this latest chapter of the ongoing goat rodeo. I concur with your assessment of the situation.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Hamas deployed fighters in Gaza on Monday as a release of hostages seized in the October 7 attacks was under way, Reuters footage showed, in an apparent show of strength by the militant group which President Donald Trump says must disarm.

Reuters footage showed dozens of Hamas fighters lined up at a hospital in southern Gaza, and an armed man wearing the insignia of the Hamas armed wing, the Qassam Brigades. His shoulder patch identified him as a member of the elite "Shadow Unit", which Hamas sources say is tasked with ‘guarding’ hostages.

Israel has pummelled Hamas during its two-year-long Gaza offensive, killing thousands of its fighters and many of its leaders in the onslaught that turned much of the Palestinian territory into a wasteland.

Israel's military said it had received the first seven of 20 surviving hostages after their transfer out of Gaza by the Red Cross. The remaining 13 confirmed living hostages, along with the bodies of 26 dead hostages and another two whose fate is unknown, are also expected to be released on Monday, along with nearly 2,000 Palestinian detainees and convicted prisoners.

More than 1,900 Palestinian prisoners released, Israel says — The Hill

Israel said it released more than 1,900 Palestinian prisoners Monday as part of a ceasefire deal that also secured the release of the 20 remaining living hostages held in Gaza.

apple.news

Mediators Egypt, Qatar and Turkey sign with Trump document on Gaza ceasefire deal — Reuters

Mediators Egypt, Qatar and Turkey signed on Monday with U.S. President Donald Trump a document on the Gaza ceasefire deal.

apple.news

That’s phase 1, or part of phase 1. What’s phase 2 and when will that happen?

The next phase of negotiations must address demands for Hamas to disarm and end its rule of Gaza, the territory it has controlled since expelling President Mahmoud Abbas' Palestinian Authority in 2007.

Hamas deploys fighters as hostages released, in show of strength — Reuters

Hamas deployed fighters in Gaza on Monday as a release of hostages seized in the October 7 attacks was under way, Reuters footage showed, in an apparent show of strength by the militant group which President Donald Trump says must disarm.

apple.news

 

[Dixie Cup]

Trump and Netanyahu had to eat Euro, Arab, Commonwealth (Putin, Xi, Modi) Pope and APP crow. They gave Trump a "gimme" but no peas prize due to complicity in genocide.

What genocide? Where?

 

[pgs]

What genocide? Where?

Yup , if Israel is performing genocide , they are as effective and efficient as Canadians who killed all the natives .

 

[petros]

What genocide? Where?

This one that is never going away.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

 

[Ron in Regina]

This one that is never going away.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

If ever there was an an impartial judge when it comes to Israel, it’s gotta be the UN.

2022 UNGA Resolutions on Israel vs. Rest of the World - UN Watch

• 2022 UNGA Resolutions on Israel: 15 • 2022 UNGA Resolutions on Rest of the World: 13 From 2015 through 2022, including the above, the UN General Assembly has adopted 140 resolutions on Israel and 68 on other countries. For texts and voting sheets, see the UN Watch Database, which will include...

unwatch.org

Could just be another coincidence though…

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For comparison, in 2024, here’s a list of other UN resolutions against all nations:

Afghanistan (0) - Taliban rule: public executions, enslavement of women, mass killings of minorities.
Algeria (0) - Torture of protesters, censorship, repression of Berbers.
China (0) - Uyghur concentration camps, Tibet repression, Hong Kong crushed, Tiananmen legacy.
Cuba (0) - Communist dictatorship, mass imprisonment of dissidents, censorship.
Eritrea (0) - indefinite military conscription, torture, no free press
Iran (1) - Mass executions, torture, shooting protesters, global terror sponsorship (Hezbollah, Houthis, Hamas).
Iraq (0) - Sectarian killings, ISIS genocide of Yazidis, corruption and lawlessness.
Israel (17) - grants full equal rights to all its citizens, regardless of religion, politics, or sexual orientation - under relentless terror attacks - yet endlessly singled out with 17 UN resolutions.
Lebanon (0) - Hezbollah’s stranglehold, political assassinations, terror base.
Myanmar (1) - Ethnic cleansing of Rohingya, military massacres, forced displacement.
Nigeria (0) - Widespread extrajudicial killings, disappearances, and police brutality. Boko Haram, ISIS-West Africa, and armed militias massacre civilians, kidnap women and children, and commit systematic rape and terror.
North Korea (1) - Gulags, starvation, political prison camps, systematic executions.
Pakistan (0) - Persecution of Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis; military crackdowns in Baluchistan.
Qatar (0) - Modern slavery of migrant workers, terror funding (Hamas, Taliban).
Russia (1) - War crimes in Ukraine, political assassinations (Nemtsov, Litvinenko, Navalny’s poisoning), imprisonment of opposition activists, support for terror regimes (Assad in Syria, Iran’s theocracy).
Saudi Arabia (0) - Public beheadings, murder of Jamal Khashoggi, systemic repression of women.
Somalia (0) - Al-Shabaab terror, civilian massacres, clan-based abuses.
Sudan (0) - civil war, mass rapes, ethnic cleansing in Darfur and elsewhere.
Syria (1) - Assad’s chemical weapons and barrel bombs, current Joulani-led militias committing atrocities: massacres and ethnic cleansing of Druze, and Yazidis.
Turkey (0) - Kurdish massacres, jailing journalists, ethnic cleansing in Syria.
Venezuela (0) - Dictatorship, torture of dissidents, man-made humanitarian collapse.
Yemen (1) - humanitarian crisis: millions displaced, starvation. Arbitrary detention, torture, and disappearances are routine. Houthis impose brutal restrictions on women, persecute LGBTQ people, and terrorize civilians with missile and maritime attacks.

Again, probably just a coincidence.

 

[petros]

If ever there was an an impartial judge when it comes to Israel, it’s gotta be the UN.

View attachment 31581
View attachment 31582

2022 UNGA Resolutions on Israel vs. Rest of the World - UN Watch

• 2022 UNGA Resolutions on Israel: 15 • 2022 UNGA Resolutions on Rest of the World: 13 From 2015 through 2022, including the above, the UN General Assembly has adopted 140 resolutions on Israel and 68 on other countries. For texts and voting sheets, see the UN Watch Database, which will include...

unwatch.org

Could just be another coincidence though…

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 31583
For comparison, in 2024, here’s a list of other UN resolutions against all nations:

Afghanistan (0) - Taliban rule: public executions, enslavement of women, mass killings of minorities.
Algeria (0) - Torture of protesters, censorship, repression of Berbers.
China (0) - Uyghur concentration camps, Tibet repression, Hong Kong crushed, Tiananmen legacy.
Cuba (0) - Communist dictatorship, mass imprisonment of dissidents, censorship.
Eritrea (0) - indefinite military conscription, torture, no free press
Iran (1) - Mass executions, torture, shooting protesters, global terror sponsorship (Hezbollah, Houthis, Hamas).
Iraq (0) - Sectarian killings, ISIS genocide of Yazidis, corruption and lawlessness.
Israel (17) - grants full equal rights to all its citizens, regardless of religion, politics, or sexual orientation - under relentless terror attacks - yet endlessly singled out with 17 UN resolutions.
Lebanon (0) - Hezbollah’s stranglehold, political assassinations, terror base.
Myanmar (1) - Ethnic cleansing of Rohingya, military massacres, forced displacement.
Nigeria (0) - Widespread extrajudicial killings, disappearances, and police brutality. Boko Haram, ISIS-West Africa, and armed militias massacre civilians, kidnap women and children, and commit systematic rape and terror.
North Korea (1) - Gulags, starvation, political prison camps, systematic executions.
Pakistan (0) - Persecution of Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis; military crackdowns in Baluchistan.
Qatar (0) - Modern slavery of migrant workers, terror funding (Hamas, Taliban).
Russia (1) - War crimes in Ukraine, political assassinations (Nemtsov, Litvinenko, Navalny’s poisoning), imprisonment of opposition activists, support for terror regimes (Assad in Syria, Iran’s theocracy).
Saudi Arabia (0) - Public beheadings, murder of Jamal Khashoggi, systemic repression of women.
Somalia (0) - Al-Shabaab terror, civilian massacres, clan-based abuses.
Sudan (0) - civil war, mass rapes, ethnic cleansing in Darfur and elsewhere.
Syria (1) - Assad’s chemical weapons and barrel bombs, current Joulani-led militias committing atrocities: massacres and ethnic cleansing of Druze, and Yazidis.
Turkey (0) - Kurdish massacres, jailing journalists, ethnic cleansing in Syria.
Venezuela (0) - Dictatorship, torture of dissidents, man-made humanitarian collapse.
Yemen (1) - humanitarian crisis: millions displaced, starvation. Arbitrary detention, torture, and disappearances are routine. Houthis impose brutal restrictions on women, persecute LGBTQ people, and terrorize civilians with missile and maritime attacks.

Again, probably just a coincidence.

The same UN that gave them their existence can just as easily pull the plug.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The same UN that gave them their existence can just as easily pull the plug.

If they could, wouldn’t they have already? Seriously.

History of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[petros]

If they could, wouldn’t they have already? Seriously.

View attachment 31585
View attachment 31587

History of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't discount the possibility. No nation has the "right to exist".

 

[Ron in Regina]

Don't discount the possibility. No nation has the "right to exist".

Which other ones are on the list for the UN to snuff out? Any at all? Any ever been expelled from the UN once they’re in?

 

[petros]

Which other ones are on the list for the UN to snuff out? Any at all? Any ever been expelled from the UN once they’re in?

Knock yerself out.

https://main.un.org/securitycouncil/en/content/un-sc-consolidated-list

 

[Ron in Regina]

Knock yerself out.

https://main.un.org/securitycouncil/en/content/un-sc-consolidated-list

Ok, and in that link has there ever been a nation expelled from the UN once they’re in? Ever? As in a single one ever? Did you look through that link before you posted it? Am I missing something beyond the UN huffing and puffing at best?

If ya don’t pay your dues Jack, for two consecutive years, you can lose your UN voting rights, etc…

(YouTube & Big Trouble in Little China Pork chop express)
…but then you can ask for an extension, a playment plan, forgiveness, etc…