There is the evidence.

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yeah, I know some, in fact my best friend in real life is one. He and his wife are ethnic and cultural Jews, but quite irreligious.

There's a high percentage of Jews in my profession, and I've found them to be all over the map in religious, ethnic, and cultural terms.

Same for Muslims, by the way. I asked my friend Navid if he was a Muslim. He said "By default, yes. I was born in Iran. In Iran, Muslim is all you're allowed to be." He's an atheist. Or maybe an agnostic. Whatever term best applies to somebody who doesn't know if there's a god or gods, doesn't care, and neither follows religious practice nor has any expectations of the Big Guy.

 

[Serryah]

Judaism is a strange combination of ethnicity, religion, and/or culture. Traditionally, Jews counted one as a Jew if one's mother was a Jew. For this reason, a Jew can be of any religion, or no religion.

It's a slippery term, not fitting into our usual labels of race, ethnicity, and religion.

Most reliable test is: if somebody wants to kill you for being part of a group, you're part of that group.

Eh, valid point I suppose. I guess I took Torchy's little comment to be Jew "the religion".

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Eh, valid point I suppose. I guess I took Torchy's little comment to be Jew "the religion".

Torchy's viewpoint is just a mite narrow. He's one of the ones who'd love to kill what he thinks of as a "Jew," regardless of that person's religious beliefs, if any.

 

[Jinentonix]

I have recognized you: a Jew and atheist: the worst combination.

You don't recognize shit, cur.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You don't recognize shit, cur.

Of course he does. He just thinks it's the Word of Allah the Benevolent and Murderous.

And the "cur" comment was just rude. On behalf of dogs everywhere, I demand an apology!

 

[Jinentonix]

Of course he does. He just thinks it's the Word of Allah the Benevolent and Murderous.

And the "cur" comment was just rude. On behalf of dogs everywhere, I demand an apology!

Well to be fair, the word can mean an "inferior dog". As in the result of too much inbreeding. Yes yes, I know, 'cur' also has other definitions.

 

[Torch light]

Who created god then? And who or whatever that was, who created it? And who created that? You've got an infinite regress of creators creating creators creating creators... etc. with that claim, or you have to admit there's at least one thing that doesn't require a creator in order to terminate that regression, thus the claim is false. But even if you terminate that regression with Allah as the uncreated first creator, all you've done is try to explain something that's complex and difficult to understand--the cosmos--with something even more complex and difficult to understand, which explains nothing.

This is the point where I force the atheist to the corner. This is the point from which he tries to flee and evade.
Now, stay where you are.
God is the Ultimate source of creation; none created Him. And even if you cannot comprehend, do not say: no God; no Creator.
So to everything is a maker or a creator, and God is the Ultimate Creator of everything in the universe.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

This is the point where I force the atheist to the corner. This is the point from which he tries to flee and evade.
Now, stay where you are.
God is the Ultimate source of creation; none created Him. And even if you cannot comprehend, do not say: no God; no Creator.
So to everything is a maker or a creator, and God is the Ultimate Creator of everything in the universe.

So, your point is "Everything was created or made, except Allah." You disprove your own thesis.

To be fair, you do it quickly. Thanks for that.

 

[petros]

So, your point is "Everything was created or made, except Allah." You disprove your own thesis.

To be fair, you do it quickly. Thanks for that.

Everything in the mater (material universe) yup.

What about in the pater (ethereal universe)? Does time exist? Is there a beginning or end?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

This is the point where I force the atheist to the corner. This is the point from which he tries to flee and evade.
Now, stay where you are.
God is the Ultimate source of creation; none created Him. And even if you cannot comprehend, do not say: no God; no Creator.
So to everything is a maker or a creator, and God is the Ultimate Creator of everything in the universe.

What corner is that? You've put yourself in a corner by claiming everything has a creator then immediately falsifying it by offering a counter example. You can't have that both ways. And it'll be a frosty day in Hell before I take instructions from anyone as illogical and misinformed as you, I'll go where I please and say what want: no god, no creator.

Everything in the mater (material universe) yup.

What about in the pater (ethereal universe)? Does time exist? Is there a beginning or end?

Far as I can tell, the material universe is all there is. Yes time exists, it's what we measure with a clock and that's really all physics will let us say about it definitively. As to beginnings and ends, we don't really know. It seems pretty clear there was a Big Bang (terrible name for it, in my opinion) which was the beginning of the universe we can perceive, and it also seems likely it'll end in a thermodynamic equilibrium usually called the heat death of the universe, but what came before, and what comes after, we don't know, and possibly can't know. Lots of ideas are floating around on the fringes of physics, but no good data.

 

[petros]

What corner is that? You've put yourself in a corner by claiming everything has a creator then immediately falsifying it by offering a counter example. You can't have that both ways. And it'll be a frosty day in Hell before I take instructions from anyone as illogical and misinformed as you, I'll go where I please and say what want: no god, no creator.

Far as I can tell, the material universe is all there is. Yes time exists, it's what we measure with a clock and that's really all physics will let us say about it definitively. As to beginnings and ends, we don't really know. It seems pretty clear there was a Big Bang (terrible name for it, in my opinion) which was the beginning of the universe we can perceive, and it also seems likely it'll end in a thermodynamic equilibrium usually called the heat death of the universe, but what came before, and what comes after, we don't know, and possibly can't know. Lots of ideas are floating around on the fringes of physics, but no good data.

We know there is more beyond the material. Dark matter is the bulk of the universe but....

85% of the universe exists but doesn't.

 

[Jinentonix]

This is the point where I force the atheist to the corner. This is the point from which he tries to flee and evade.
Now, stay where you are.
God is the Ultimate source of creation; none created Him. And even if you cannot comprehend, do not say: no God; no Creator.
So to everything is a maker or a creator, and God is the Ultimate Creator of everything in the universe.

What corner? You've still proven nothing of your god's existence. "So to everything there is a maker or creator". Yep, man created the gods and invented religion.

 

[Torch light]

What corner is that? You've put yourself in a corner by claiming everything has a creator then immediately falsifying it by offering a counter example. You can't have that both ways. And it'll be a frosty day in Hell before I take instructions from anyone as illogical and misinformed as you, I'll go where I please and say what want: no god, no creator.

Far as I can tell, the material universe is all there is. Yes time exists, it's what we measure with a clock and that's really all physics will let us say about it definitively. As to beginnings and ends, we don't really know. It seems pretty clear there was a Big Bang (terrible name for it, in my opinion) which was the beginning of the universe we can perceive, and it also seems likely it'll end in a thermodynamic equilibrium usually called the heat death of the universe, but what came before, and what comes after, we don't know, and possibly can't know. Lots of ideas are floating around on the fringes of physics, but no good data.

Enemy of yourself, because you strive for your own destruction.
I tell you everything should have a maker; if you see a building with many departments, can anyone say, it comes to existence without a builder that built it?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Enemy of yourself, because you strive for your own destruction.
I tell you everything should have a maker; if you see a building with many departments, can anyone say, it comes to existence without a builder that built it?

Then how did Allah come into existence? Who or what was Allah's maker?

 

[Torch light]

Far as I can tell, the material universe is all there is. Yes time exists, it's what we measure with a clock and that's really all physics will let us say about it definitively. As to beginnings and ends, we don't really know. It seems pretty clear there was a Big Bang (terrible name for it, in my opinion) which was the beginning of the universe we can perceive, and it also seems likely it'll end in a thermodynamic equilibrium usually called the heat death of the universe, but what came before, and what comes after, we don't know, and possibly can't know. Lots of ideas are floating around on the fringes of physics, but no good data.

The materialist wants to measure God in the lab, which is impossible, because God is the Creator and cannot be perceived by the eye or the ear or touched by the hand; like those stupid men in the time of Moses who insisted to see God with their own eyes and hear Him with their own eyes.

Moses said to them: it can't be, for you will die with terror. But they insisted stubbornly, and went with Moses to the mountain: God said to Moses: you will not see me, but look to the mountain if it stands in its place, then you will see Me and see what will befall you and your seventy men with you.
The mountain was crushed, Moses fainted, the seventy men died with a thunderbolt.

I think you do not believe this story, which I cited to demonstrate that you are like the seventy men who demanded to see God with their own eyes.

"When Moses intended to go to the mountain to bring the Tablets, some of his people said: "We should go with you, to see God and how He speaks to you!"
Moses said to them: "You cannot see Him, neither can you hear His voice, because you will die from terror."
But they insisted on that, so Moses chose out of them seventy men, who went with him to the Horeb Mountain which they climbed up."
quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_143

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The materialist wants to measure God in the lab, which is impossible, because God is the Creator and cannot be perceived by the eye or the ear or touched by the hand; like those stupid men in the time of Moses who insisted to see God with their own eyes and hear Him with their own eyes.

Yep, and the believers believe because they are gibbering in terror of the simple fact that they will die, and be done.

 

[Torch light]

Then how did Allah come into existence? Who or what was Allah's maker?

God or Allah is the Ultimate Being, the Eternal Who is the First and the Last; as in the Quran 112: 3, which means:
"Who never begot [anyone], nor was He ever begotten."

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/112.htm#a112_1

 

[Torch light]

Yep, and the believers believe because they are gibbering in terror of the simple fact that they will die, and be done.

You have this delusion that when you will die, you will be done. And for this reason, you do not fear God and you do not believe in the Hereafter.
But when the disbeliever dies, he will wish he will be dust like how his body has become dust,

As in the Quran 78: 40-41, which means:
(40. We warn you, [associaters and idolaters], of an imminent chastisement [following after your death in the afterlife.]
41. The day when man [who is a believer] will look on [the charity] that his hands forwarded [to find it before him], while the disbeliever will say [when he will see the chastisement]: "O would that I were dust. b ")
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................

b In order to get rid of the chastisement, just as how my body has become dust, and so it has got rid of the punishment: [my body] will not be punished or taken to account.
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/78.htm#a78_40

 

[Torch light]

Far as I can tell, the material universe is all there is.

You think so, but you are wrong, and you cannot be certain; only doubts and presumptions.

Yes time exists, it's what we measure with a clock and that's really all physics will let us say about it definitively.

Certainly time exists, and even it is beyond our understanding and imagination.

As to beginnings and ends, we don't really know.

So all of it is imagination and presumption; of course, we don't know.

It seems pretty clear there was a Big Bang (terrible name for it, in my opinion) which was the beginning of the universe we can perceive, and it also seems likely it'll end in a thermodynamic equilibrium usually called the heat death of the universe, but what came before, and what comes after, we don't know, and possibly can't know.

As you said in the previous sentence: we don't know the beginning and the end: and here you contradict yourself about the beginning and the end. Who said there was such big bang: it could be, but neither you nor anyone else can say this with certainty.
And I find it some sort of conceit that one could be certain about this big bang or the thermodynamic equilibrium; it is beyond your science and physics: none can know certainly about what happened in this extremely extensive universe with his limited brain capability.

Example: When a well known physicist (I am not certain who he was) was asked about God, he said: if you imagine yourself a microbe on a hair of a man's head, and you tell this microbe: you are only a minute microbe on a hair, it will say what's the hair, I cannot imagine it; you say: it is a hair on a man's head; it will say: what's man, and what's the head? etc.

Lots of ideas are floating around on the fringes of physics, but no good data.

This is all that you imagine with no certainty, but when you come to the Creator, you become certain that He does not exist; Glory to God Almighty and Most Gracious.

Quran 45: 23, which means:
(Have you [O Mohammed] considered him who takes as his god according to his ego,
and God misguides him in spite of his knowledge,
and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart, and has placed upon his eyesight a covering?
Who then shall guide him after God [has misguided him?]
Will you [idolaters] not then reflect?)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/45.htm#a45_23

 

[petros]

According to physics, 85% of the alleged matter in Universe doesnt have or isnt impacted by electromagnetism or photons which is the Universe we know. We only see the electromagnetic (mater) portion of the Universe and have to believe in the (pater) ethereal Universe.

The Bible talks about the mater and pater from start to end.


Go into the Light!