High school student suspended, arrested for saying only 2 genders (Canada)

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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I do like the fact that the paper blithely claimed he was arrested for stating his opinion.

He was arrested for trespass.

Rest of it's all just whoring for readership. Worked, too!

Yeah, but people didn't read the original story.

Or they just skipped over that part and went right to "I'M OFFENDED!"
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Yeah, but people didn't read the original story.

Or they just skipped over that part and went right to "I'M OFFENDED!"
Need to be reminded of the story you posted about a women forced to deal with a wait of two weeks after a miscarriage to see a Dr but in reality she had a panic attack and two weeks was the standard?
 
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The_Foxer

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We'll just have to agree to disagree on that, I don't think that's an adequate description of the range of human sexuality and sexual expression.
Well, it would be incumbent upon you to provide a better description then. We can't even agree to disagree if there's only one definition of the table, there'd have to be two for us to disagree :) The best you can say at this point is that you don't accept the only argument put forth.
The very existence of the acronym 2SLGBTQetc. suggests a more nuanced understanding is required.
It absolutely does not. In fact the opposite is true, the very fact they can't agree on what the letters should be shows that there isn't a logical basis. The letters and order you chose are very different from many others.

Every person is at the end of the day unique, and will be a unique blend of male and female tributes just like every snowflake is unique. So - unless you're going to claim there's an infinite number of genders then there are two, of which our personalities are a combination. If you ARE going to claim an infinite number then the word gender becomes meaningless.
I'd agree there are two primary genders, most people do identify as male or female, but there's a significant minority that does not and in the interest of preserving their civil and human rights we have to respect that.
Well - first off one of the big lessons people learn in the fullness of history is "no - no we DON"T have to respect that". Respect is not enduring unless it's earned in some fashion. In this case, earning it means being able to make a logical and reasoned argument for it. And that's where some of that community has fallen short. Gays made strong arguments and in the end were accepted. The idea that there are 59 thousand genders including attack helecopter has had no such argument.

So - the fact you're struggling to make an argument as to where this other 'undefined' gender definition is coming from should be concerning. Something worth kicking around when you have time at some point.

But to address the point - people 'identify' as men and women out of convenience and biology (sex). But there have ALWAYS been effeminite men and 'tomboy' girls where their particular mix is outside the most common parameters, and every single human has elements of both - men do have inherent female traits and vice versa. It's a question of how much and what, not whether there is.

So claiming that someone who's gender is a slightly different blend of male and female is another 'gender' entirely simply doesn't make sense. It's a made up construct that doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny.

And some people are going to want to respect that truth and if they aren't respected then it's unlikely they'll be respecting anyone else.

I'm not opposed to there being more than two genders - but i've seen no compelling arguments for that. IF it's important then I think we need to lock down a solid definition of gender (right now we're going the other way and getting more and more obscure), AND then make a case for the nature of the different genders AND a useable definition or at least measure or the like.
 
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Serryah

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It's even more complex than I thought, according to some.

I think in the end it's - sadly - up to a person to decide if they want to follow the reality or their bias.

Most follow bias, because it's easier and doesn't require change.

Admitting that - yes, there are more than two genders and genders can encompass all sorts of differences - is too much for a lot of people to handle.

Now that I think on it some, I wonder what those who insist there are only two genders would say to people who have culturally known of more than two, for millennia upon millennia?

It's also funny that the whole "We don't have to respect-" gets thrown around by people, and yet if they're treated as they treat others, they start screaming about respect.
 
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The_Foxer

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I think in the end it's - sadly - up to a person to decide if they want to follow the reality or their bias.

Most follow bias, because it's easier and doesn't require change.
Like you for example? You're ALL about the bias. You are literally THE most tribal person on this forum.
Now that I think on it some, I wonder what those who insist there are only two genders would say to people who have culturally known of more than two, for millennia upon millennia?
Like who. There are none. First off i don't think you know what a millennia is. Second - i think you're gong to run smak dab into the same gender definition problem mentioned earlier.

But - by all means. Prove me wrong. Name these groups which are several millennia old and have had "multiple genders" for all that time, and describe these 'multiple genders' .

I betcha you can't.
 

The_Foxer

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Talking to the mirror again there, Buck.
Her name isn't buck, but other than that probably. She likes to do that.

But i have noticed that when you agree, you tend to try to distract from that by throwing it back at other people. So obviously you think she's all about the bias as well.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Her name isn't buck, but other than that probably. She likes to do that.

But i have noticed that when you agree, you tend to try to distract from that by throwing it back at other people. So obviously you think she's all about the bias as well.
OK. . . to clarify, I suppose I'll have to come up with some combination of Buck and Foxer. Hmm. . . what could that possibly be?

Yeah, I've noticed you work through the whole list of informal logical fallacies about twice a week, Fucker.
 
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The_Foxer

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OK. . . to clarify, I suppose I'll have to come up with some combination of Buck and Foxer. Hmm. . . what could that possibly be?
Oh i don't think clarity is your top priority when it comes to this kind of stuff :)
Yeah, I've noticed you work through the whole list of informal logical fallacies about twice a week
I've noticed you're prepared to lie about it anyway.
Your otherwise decent mind just takes a complete shit when your tribal issues are threatened and you know you don't have a logical defense for it. It's actually surprisingly easy to tell exactly how much you know the other person is right and you're wrong just by looking at the irrational nature of the response.

In this case you're pretty triggered so it's obvious you know i'm right to a fairly high degree. It's enough that we both know that.

Oh - and if i'm the 'fucker' - i guess that makes you the fuckee. Not sure you thought that through all the way :)
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Oh i don't think clarity is your top priority when it comes to this kind of stuff :)

I've noticed you're prepared to lie about it anyway.
Your otherwise decent mind just takes a complete shit when your tribal issues are threatened and you know you don't have a logical defense for it. It's actually surprisingly easy to tell exactly how much you know the other person is right and you're wrong just by looking at the irrational nature of the response.

In this case you're pretty triggered so it's obvious you know i'm right to a fairly high degree. It's enough that we both know that.

Oh - and if i'm the 'fucker' - i guess that makes you the fuckee. Not sure you thought that through all the way :)
Your insistence on categorizing everybody as either "liberal" or "conservative" and belief that from that you know where they stand on every issue is fucking stupid.
 
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The_Foxer

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Your insistence on categorizing everybody as either "liberal" or "conservative" and belief that from that you know where they stand on every issue is fucking stupid.
It would be. If it were true. Which it isn't. In fact i almost never catagorize anyone that way. I usually categorize ideologies or an argument or in some cases behaviors as being more prevelant on the right or left. I do tend to point out that you and even more so serryah are on the left, but out of all the people here i don't think i've actually categorized anyone else at all. Like, ever. Nor other people elsewhere that i can think of.

So when you say i "insist" on categorizing "EVERYBODY".... well, we both know that's false. Don't we.

So i see we're back to your other trick of simply lying about things i've done when you're "losing" a discussion and you have no rebuttal. I guess that means you know i was correct about serryah even more strongly than I thought :)

If you have to like to make a point - it probably wasn't a very good point :) I may have mentioned that.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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It would be. If it were true. Which it isn't. In fact i almost never catagorize anyone that way. I usually categorize ideologies or an argument or in some cases behaviors as being more prevelant on the right or left. I do tend to point out that you and even more so serryah are on the left, but out of all the people here i don't think i've actually categorized anyone else at all. Like, ever. Nor other people elsewhere that i can think of.

So when you say i "insist" on categorizing "EVERYBODY".... well, we both know that's false. Don't we.

So i see we're back to your other trick of simply lying about things i've done when you're "losing" a discussion and you have no rebuttal. I guess that means you know i was correct about serryah even more strongly than I thought :)

If you have to like to make a point - it probably wasn't a very good point :) I may have mentioned that.
Pigeon playing chess. You declare victory more than the communists you claim to hate.
 
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The_Foxer

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Pigeon playing chess. You declare victory more than the communists you claim to hate.
You mean i point out when you lie. And you are unable to refute it and get all crybaby about it. And then Instead you go on to the next accusation :)

Sorry kiddo - if all you bring to the table is lies and the like then nobody needs to declare 'victory' - its pretty obvious to everyone you lost without me having to say it. I haven't declared victory about anything. I just said if you have to lie to make a point, as you did, then you probably didn't have a very good point.
 

Serryah

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Your insistence on categorizing everybody as either "liberal" or "conservative" and belief that from that you know where they stand on every issue is fucking stupid.

They kind'a remind me of the ART types (Animal Rights Terrorists); agree with me or you're evil and I'll ruin you kind of thinking.