Trudeau’s nitrogen policy will decimate Canadian farming

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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The federal plan to cut total fertilizer emissions to 30 per cent below 2020 levels by the end of the decade is really just a funding package for research and technology subsidies aimed at making agriculture more efficient on fertilizer — for now, at least???

Behind the apparently-toothless target is a series of funding commitments: $631 million for carbon sequestration on properties including farmland, $98 million for an agricultural “climate solution” fund and $167 million for efficient technology research and subsidies. In 2022, another $550 million was added to the various initiatives.

The 2030 target is voluntary, says Agriculture Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau.

In other words, it’s a branding tool to sound tough on climate while justifying any expense to meet an unreachable target.

It might also be a Trojan horse to bring in tighter regulations without inciting any Dutch-style farmer protests. It’s hard to say where Bibeau’s contradictory messaging is going, and that’s what makes it so troubling.

If the government one day decides to mandate a fertilizer cut, it’s going to hurt at home and abroad. Most food grown in Canada gets exported, but that could change. An analysis by accounting firm MNP calculated that a 20 per cent reduction in fertilizer use to meet the 2030 target would devastate Canadian agriculture, leading to possibly $48 billion in losses for just corn, canola and spring wheat alone. The cut would also wipe out our canola exports.

Such a drastic cut likely needs more than just government funding for research projects and subsidies for newer, more efficient equipment. And with today’s technology, it will be impossible for Canada to meet the 30 per cent target, Fertilizer Canada’s CEO told a Macdonald-Laurier Institute panel Thursday.

If it’s impossible, what’s the point?

The agriculture minister’s response to criticism of the target’s low feasibility is to ease off climate and act soft on farmers.

On August 9, she told Western Producer that the target was “voluntary” and that she didn’t intend to limit fertilizer use. On August 10, she told RealAg Radio that there was “no intention of going in a regulatory direction” with the target?

Bibeau’s words aren’t reassuring. Having “no intention” to do something doesn’t rule it out in the future.

On top of that, the feds have already taken a regulatory approach to fertilizer elsewhere — they included nitrogen fertilizer production in the federal greenhouse gas pricing scheme for industrial emitters. If they’re going for fertilizer at the beginning of the supply chain, they can go for the end too.

Hard targets on fertilizer use aren’t necessary because the market already does a lot to drive efficiency. Fertilizer accounts for half of Canadian crop expenses — more money is spent on fertilizer than on seeds. The farmers who use more efficient practices stand to gain more.

The agriculture minister wants to be tough on climate though, and looks past simple market dynamics in favour of weaker policy support. In December in the House of Commons, Bibeau justified her emissions target by citing an informal survey of 12 soil experts in the government and the private sector who “mostly agreed” that the target was feasible?

In January, Bibeau refused to tell the House of Commons if the government studied how a 30 per cent fertilizer emissions reduction would specifically impact food production, supply and exports

She then confirmed that the federal government had not assessed the impact of the emissions target in Saskatchewan — a significant blind spot, considering that the province has the largest share of the nation’s farmland, at 39 per cent according to Statistics Canada.

Industry publication Real Agriculture reported on government revisions made in April to how it calculated nitrogen fertilizer, dropping emissions figures by a whopping 20 per cent. This revision was based on research from 2016 — so for six years, the government wasn’t following the latest science to properly calculate emissions.

(It’s likely the official figure for total nitrogen fertilizer emissions still overshoots reality on the ground, because a number of other sustainable fertilizer practices haven’t been factored in yet.)

There’s $185 million earmarked for efficient technology subsidies, and the amount a farmer can qualify for varies depending on identity. In March, Bibeau told the agriculture committee that the feds would subsidize up to 50 per cent of purchases for older, white male farmers, “but young farmers, women and under-represented groups can get a subsidy of up to 60 per cent.” ?????

If cutting fertilizer emissions is truly urgent, the agriculture ministry wouldn’t be subsidizing solutions according to gender and race.

Consultations were recently re-opened to help the agriculture ministry substantiate its ideas. This is more a game of catch-up than an act of being thorough — neither the provinces nor the agricultural sector were consulted on the target before it was announced, according to Fertilizer Canada. Altogether, it seems the justification for the 2030 target is being made up as they go.

 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Jeepers H Crackers you sure like taking the long route to admitting you never knew there were several types of N but all arent targeted by these forthcoming cuts.

To be honest, I'm sort of for the cuts or at minimum a revamp of allowable application techniques for 100% different reasons. Nitrate and nitrite levels in soils and ground water are off the charts.

If I chose I could 100% nitrogen and phosphate free next year by going with nothing but pulse crops.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,255
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The federal plan to cut total fertilizer emissions to 30 per cent below 2020 levels by the end of the decade is really just a funding package for research and technology subsidies aimed at making agriculture more efficient on fertilizer — for now, at least???
Not really. Look at demand for cereals, oil seed, and proteins into the future. Feed crop demands are dropping. This is more of a nudge to get producers into protein pulse crops rather than cereals. India is hungry and in 8 years youll need a bank loan to buy a tbone.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
26,152
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Regina, Saskatchewan
But not everyone can just switch to growing beans, but is that part of the answer? Everyone switched to 20% of every annual crop being a pulse crop to flood that market (beats eating bugs for protein) and it’s sold with Gov’t subsidies to save the planet one Canadian Lentil at a time?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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We dont need everyone to switch to peas, lentils and beans. There arent any major purchases needed to go proteins. $40K isnt a huge investment. CRA capital cost allowances will cover the cost in 2-3 years.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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We dont need everyone to switch to peas, lentils and beans. There arent any major purchases needed to go proteins. $40K isnt a huge investment. CRA capital cost allowances will cover the cost in 2-3 years.
Ill double cgeck but a header is a piece of process equipment which is a 100% write off if bought before 2024 and 75% afterwards.
Just try’n to brainstorm Trudeau’s 30% reduction in an achievable way and damn the torpedos.
Oh I get ya for sure but this isnt really the tragedy its made out to be.

Farming is nothing but adaptation and its progressing rapidly. If demand is dropping for certain crop, pivot and go for what is in demand.

Enjoy your steak while you still can get steak.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, Im all about soil management as a means to productivity.
 
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Taxslave2

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As always in such matters any attempt to give everybody what they want inevitably results in nothing getting done and everyone being angry :)
That is the Liberal way. Get all sides mad at each other instead of the government that caused the problem.
 
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Taxslave2

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Just try’n to brainstorm Trudeau’s 30% reduction in an achievable way and damn the torpedos.
That is asking too much. As usual idiot child made an election announcement to buy green votes in cities with zero concern about the effect of said lie. Most likely there was no real move to implement the rules until working people fought back and now turdOWE has to try and show how clever is isn't.
 

The_Foxer

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Jeepers H Crackers you sure like taking the long route to admitting you never knew there were several types of N but all arent targeted by these forthcoming cuts.

To be honest, I'm sort of for the cuts or at minimum a revamp of allowable application techniques for 100% different reasons. Nitrate and nitrite levels in soils and ground water are off the charts.

If I chose I could 100% nitrogen and phosphate free next year by going with nothing but pulse crops.
Kid - i'm sorry you're struggling with this simple concept. My question had nothing to do with types of nitrogen fertilizer. YOUR CLAIM was that trudeau was SPECIFICALLY TARGETING a specific product, and i said that it did not look like he WAS targeting that or had a specific plan for ANYTHING.

And as the article above shows, i was right and you were wrong. All your blathering was utterly pointless and now you're doubling down on that AFTER the article that shows i was right all along.

Note: "The federal plan to cut total fertilizer emissions to 30 per cent below 2020 levels by the end of the decade is really just a funding package for research and technology subsidies aimed at making agriculture more efficient on fertilizer — for now, at least???"

So he isn't targeting ANYTHING, nitrogen or otherwise, he's going to 'think about it'. And also as the article notes they're going to be 'researching' other ways to cut emissions - so in the end the whole thing was an excuse to give more money to his friends so that they can claim their 'writing a report'.

I hope whatever the hell you were smoking this weekend wore off and you get it now.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Again you are expressing your ignorance
Kid - i'm sorry you're struggling with this simple concept. My question had nothing to do with types of nitrogen fertilizer. YOUR CLAIM was that trudeau was SPECIFICALLY TARGETING a specific product, and i said that it did not look like he WAS targeting that or had a specific plan for ANYTHING.

And as the article above shows, i was right and you were wrong.
Again you are expressing your ignorance. Go ahead, rage like a buffoon about a topic you know absolutely fuck all about.
 

The_Foxer

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That is asking too much. As usual idiot child made an election announcement to buy green votes in cities with zero concern about the effect of said lie. Most likely there was no real move to implement the rules until working people fought back and now turdOWE has to try and show how clever is isn't.
I think the real point was the 'research'. He's going to give money to friends and donors to 'write a report' on the subject. They will spend millions 'researching' it (meaning reading a few articles here and there and some research others have done) and they'll get paid a few million each to do it, and turn out a report in 2 years saying "It's really important to do something" without saying what the 'something' is. They'll also throw some money at companies looking at making products that might help - all of which will be in ontario or quebec.
 
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The_Foxer

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Again you are expressing your ignorance

Again you are expressing your ignorance. Go ahead, rage like a buffoon about a topic you know absolutely fuck all about.
Sorry to hear you're too stupid to have this conversation. That's too bad. And i know a great deal about the federal gov't. Which is what we were talking about. And the only one raging here would be you.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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If you had a clue youd know the types of N the Feds are hoping to cut but you dont. You just want to rage about Trudeau which is 100% fine. Im not exactly happy about how these cuts came in with zero producer consultation.

Which part of these cuts piss you off as a consumer? Its clear you arent a producer so lay out the whys and hows this impacts YOU.
 

The_Foxer

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If you had a clue you know the types of N the Feds are hoping to cut but you dont.
They're not hoping to cut ANY at this point. The article says so. You were wrong from the get go. And if you'd had a brain you'd realize that's what I was saying from the beginning.

In fact the article points out the gov't isn't looking for ANYTHING specific at all. They're not targeting ANY fertilizer specifically. They're using the IDEA of a nebulous 30 percent reduction as an excuse to fund more 'research' and development of new products with ZERO specific targets.

But nooooooo you're ADAMANT that you know SPECIFICALLY what they're targeting. They don't have a specific target and they aren't even trying. They're just saying "if you can voluntarily cut emissions back by 30 that'd be great", which is not a 'target' of anything, and "Oh and we're going to spend several hundred million having someone write some reports and for industry to develop products that might be relevant to that'.

So no. They aren't hoping to cut ANYTHING specific. They're hoping to give their friends some cash. Thanks for playing.
 

The_Foxer

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The article? Is your world based on the viewpoint of a halfwit journalist or reality?
Oh look you've managed to work your way back to my original question. And how long did that take you. Remember when i asked you if you have ANY documentation about this plan that actually says what products or methods they're specifically targeting? And you couldn't answer?

At least the journalist points to actual documentation to back up his claims of the funding - but as near as I can tell there IS no gov't indication that they're targeting ANYTHING SPECIFIC when it comes to farming OR fertilizer. They just want to see a magic 30 percent reduction in "emissions" - does that mean from the fertilizer itself specifically? Or how it's applied and the machinery? Or are they looking for carbon offsets from it somehow? Or does it mean they specifically want less used?

They obviously DON'T have anything specific in mind at all. I can't find ANY documentation indicating what their specific intent is. It would appear that they just grabbed 30 percent out of the air and identified 'fertilizer' as being the general issue and now it looks like they're backing away from that number for now and saying it's not manditory and they're not even giving any ideas of how to get there or how they're calculating the 2020 fertilizer "emissions". I think this was just to justify giving some people a fat contract to write a report that won't have any real value in the slightest moving forward and to throw some cash at some ontario or quebec businesses that say they're working on equipment that relates to fertilizer efficiency somehow.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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So bub, its not a cut to N synthetics but a flat cut to N in general? Youre going to stand by that claim? You are 100 sure about a flat cut or is Trudeau using these N cuts with subterfuge to attack the CO2 produced in manufacturing synthetic N from natural gas or is it both?
 

The_Foxer

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So bub, its not a cut to N synthetics but a flat cut to N in general?
WHO KNOWS?!?! - Have YOU got a document FROM the gov't explaining what THEY mean by that cut specifically? That's what i asked in the beginning and it's a question you've dodged again and again for reasons i can't fathom! I don't care what YOU think they mean - I'm asking what THEY think they mean.
Youre going to stand by that claim?
You're the only one making a claim - so if YOU want to stand by YOUR claim then provide a document showing what specifically they intend with THIS announcement. And you're not going to because they don't seem to have produced one, so YOU don't know what THEY mean either.
You are 100 sure about a flat cut or is Trudeau using these N cuts with subterfuge to attack the CO2 produced in manufacturing synthetic N from natural gas or is it both?
I have been crystal clear since the first post that not only am I not 100 percent sure about what the gov't intends, but that unless you've seen something from them explaining what they intend then NEITHER ARE YOU. In fact i'm not really ANY percent sure - and you aren't either. God alone knows what is going through Trudeau's mind with this (other than air).

In fact, the evidence is growing that they don't have ANY actual definition or specific intent behind that number and they don't actually care - they're using it to justify giving money away. I'm not so sure Trudeau give a flying crap if there ever is a reduction in the slightest or has the slightest clue how nitrogen is used in farming.

So we're back to it - as i said i'm not so sure, do you have any documentation. That is literally what i said then, and it's still where we're at now.