Trudeau says he is open to decriminalization of hard drugs
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
I agree with the first part. Criminalizing drugs has been a manifest failure. But when you OD, you get whatever medical treatment you're entitled to under any consequences. Denying medical treatment because the patient may have been wholly or partially responsible for his condition is, in addition to being brutal and inhuman, a slippery slope. Do you eat red meat and/or crisps? Well then, if you have a heart attack, the EMTs shouldn't get up from their coffee and crullers.
Decriminalizing would be fine, it is after all one of the four pillars, but it must include mandatory treatment or all we end up doing is enabling. Administrating Naloxone multiple times to the same person gets frustrating.
When pot was ‘decriminalized’ in Canada, the black market pot prices dropped significantly in addition to a bunch of Gov’t weed stores popping up everywhere in an effort to tax the Devils Lettuce?
The cheap weed black market has lead to people not having to share a joint during a pandemic, so maybe lowering Covid transmission & helped take out restaurants stay alive the last 20 months? Serendipity?
If the hard drugs market is ‘decriminalized’ can the same thing be expected? The “learning from history” thing with the black market prices plummeting & Gov’t Crack/Meth stores popping up everywhere in an effort to tax the panhandlers and crack whores?
Maybe the unintended consequences might be a lowering of the HIV & HepC rates ‘cuz it’ll be cheap enough to not have to share needles (?) but will having the black market hard drugs pricing cut in half or even more slow down the OD’s & deaths?
The cheap weed black market has lead to people not having to share a joint during a pandemic, so maybe lowering Covid transmission & helped take out restaurants stay alive the last 20 months? Serendipity?
If the hard drugs market is ‘decriminalized’ can the same thing be expected? The “learning from history” thing with the black market prices plummeting & Gov’t Crack/Meth stores popping up everywhere in an effort to tax the panhandlers and crack whores?
Maybe the unintended consequences might be a lowering of the HIV & HepC rates ‘cuz it’ll be cheap enough to not have to share needles (?) but will having the black market hard drugs pricing cut in half or even more slow down the OD’s & deaths?
Elon isn’t firing up a spoon & tying off a vein, and sharing a needle with Joe Rogan above….though there might very well have been some take-out or Delivery after the camera’s turned off. No Naloxone needed after his spiff…but maybe a Whopper or 3.
Decrimming hard drugs isn't the same as legalizing. The idea is to NOT waste time and resources prosecuting people for simple possession. In Portugal you go before a triumvirate who decides whether you need jail time, rehab, or to drop the matter altogether. The money not prosecuting simple possession has been used to improve the country's health care system. However the penalties for manufacturing and/or distributing were made harsher.
Give weed legalization some time as well. Again in Portugal, after de facto legalization of weed hard drug use and OD's went on the decline.
Decrimming is more about harm reduction than trying to affect the Black Market. In fact the Black Market LOVES decrimmed drugs. When the Chretien govt moved to decrim simple possession of weed the Black Marketers loved it. You could tell by the price increase.
Agree with paragraph 1. Technical point: I think you meant "tribunal," not "triumvirate." Can't say for sure, but I'd bet the only way you end up in front of the tribunal in the first place is to breach the peace while high, or because of addiction. (Or maybe because you self-reported?)
Paragraph 2, not so sure. Don't know too much about the Canadian experience.
There's another argument for legalizing possession/use. Throughout most of the history of the U.S. and Canada (dating from 1600 or so), you were completely free to ingest whatever the hell you wanted. Opium. Laudanum. Cocaine. Alcohol. If you got hooked, that was a problem for you and your doctor. If your addiction caused you to break the law, that was a problem for you and the criminal system.
Abortion, vaccines, masks, drugs. What right does the government have to tell you what to do with your body in an allegedly free country?
Final point. There seems to be a bit of reinforcing failure at work here. Do we actually have any evidence that the prohibition of drugs has lessened use? Seems to me you could argue that it's like prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. in the '20s. Lots more cops. No significant decline in drinking.
Drugs drink and the dregs of society have always been with us . Skid row in most major metropolitan areas is vastly larger since the advent of the modern welfare state . IMHO .
Unfortunately it could just as easily have the opposite effect. Lower priced or more easily obtainable drugs could lead to more abuse and higher OD rates.
Without mandatory treatment, I fear we will just be enabling addicts.
Yeah.
Or if you have US-style entrapment laws. Or does the US still do that shit?
The irony is, the legislation prohibiting pot use and other drugs in Canada leaned rather heavily on the racist side and had dick-all to do with public health or crime.
Prohibition is stupid in both regards. Especially when it came to alcohol considering how many people drink the stuff. I think the best method is if you're not willing to fully legalize drug use, at least decrim simple possession and crank up the penalties for manufacturing and distribution so they are MUCH harsher. Considering the societal harms some of the illicit drugs cause, the penalty for manufacturing and/or distributing should be a bare minimum of 25 years in the pokey.
