When People Laugh At You For Mentioning That Communism is A Real Threat To Canada. Ask Them What is The Difference Between Total Equity and Communism?

[Nick Danger]

We seem to have gotten sidetracked from the OP.
The fact is communism would destroy our economy and lifestyle. We would soon be like China and North Korea where only party insiders have any kind of decent living and the rest starve. All for the common good of course. Read animal farm. Even after all these years it is still right on track.

That's an extreme that we are not likely to come anywhere close to in Canada, despite the need of some people to convince us otherwise. What is more likely is that without some course correction the current distribution of wealth which sees the chosen few enjoying a life of excess while the rest are worse off every year will only get worse.

I'm in the middle of the boomer age group, and I grew up in a time when a single middle class income could make a house payment, a car payment, keep food on the table and maybe take the family on a summer holiday or put a kid through college. It's no coincidence that those things started disappearing with the onset of neoliberal economic policy in the early seventies, when the bottom line became the only focus and family and community were demoted to consumers.

 

[Nick Danger]

There is a labour shortage because turdOWE is paying people that have never worked twice what pensioners get after forced contributions for 50+ years to sit at home and play video games. Why are young people permitted to sit at home and collect hi priced welfare while crops are rotting in the fields because of a lack of help?
Don't forget that restaurant and hotel workers also get a lot of cash tips. A young lady I know was doing a welding apprenticeship but quit to go back to working in a restaurant because at the end of the week she made more take home money working for minimum wage.

The labour shortage in the service sector has been around a lot longer than the pandemic.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

I've said this before...

At some point it bacame a race to the bottom. Instead of bringing the Private Sector UP to the Public Sector standard, the reverse is occurring....wage stagnation...higher taxation...less benefits....higher health premiums...etc.

Gas, food, rent etc...is going through the roof. I'm seeing panhandlers in the suburbs which I've never seen before.

 

[Twin_Moose]

That's an extreme that we are not likely to come anywhere close to in Canada, despite the need of some people to convince us otherwise. What is more likely is that without some course correction the current distribution of wealth which sees the chosen few enjoying a life of excess while the rest are worse off every year will only get worse.

I'm in the middle of the boomer age group, and I grew up in a time when a single middle class income could make a house payment, a car payment, keep food on the table and maybe take the family on a summer holiday or put a kid through college. It's no coincidence that those things started disappearing with the onset of neoliberal economic policy in the early seventies, when the bottom line became the only focus and family and community were demoted to consumers.

Easiest solution is cut back on Gov. spending to reduce the tax bills and put the money back into taxpayer's pockets. If you cut the total tax bill in half a second income might not be needed to survive.

We are getting closer to being inclusively taxed $0.70 for every $1.00 earned from Municipal to Federal tax, with Gst and user fees to round it out

 

[Twin_Moose]

We could argue about that all day, but the simple facts is that cost of living has outpaced wages at the lower end of the scale. It's just numbers, most people simply cannot afford to work for minimum wage any more. Employers who aren't keeping pace by raising wages appropriately, unlike the service industry employers who aren't whining about labour shortages, are finding that they are chronically short of staff due to high turnover, and/or having to settle for workers no one else will hire. While the pandemic has shone a spotlight on thei issue, it predates the pandemic by years. This isn't so much a discussion of what should be, but one of what actually is happening. People are finding better options, and as far as I'm concerned, it's an improvement.

And yet most internships are non paying positions in the public sector, to gain experience

 

[Twin_Moose]

I've said this before...

At some point it bacame a race to the bottom. Instead of bringing the Private Sector UP to the Public Sector standard, the reverse is occurring....wage stagnation...higher taxation...less benefits....higher health premiums...etc.

Gas, food, rent etc...is going through the roof. I'm seeing panhandlers in the suburbs which I've never seen before.

Pretty easy to pay premium wages in the public sector when you don't have to foot the bill and balance the books like in the private sector

 

[Dixie Cup]

That's not true. I do not advocate for communism, but it is clear that a greater measure of equality is a must for our society to endure as anything other than a new aristocracy. We have a good system in Canada with our blend of free-market capitalism and social programs, we have just let greed at the top of the food chain grow unrestrained to the point where quality of life for rank-and-file Canadians is suffering. The constant clanging of "communist" alarm bells is a distraction from working on a better life for all Canadians, not just a fortunate few. We don't need communism, we just need a to tweak our capitalism a bit to get some control back in the hands of individuals. That would mean getting elected representatives into Ottawa that don't answer to the corporate sector before they answer to society as a whole.

But while we can try to make "adjustments" we have to be weary of those who do promote "equity" because it doesn't mean EQUAL! That's the thing - do not consider them the same because they're not. The "equity" some people talk about means taking from one group to give to another, no matter what.

As an example: It doesn't matter that you have worked your whole life to own your home - you're not entitled to it because someone else doesn't have one. Therefore, you must give up owning your own home & rent like everyone else. It doesn't matter that you've been frugal and have some savings - if one other person has no savings, then yours must be given up because if one person doesn't have savings, then you cannot have any as well. That's what the Leftist "equity" means.

So be prepared. If they win the fight, expect to loose whatever you have to ensure you're as "equal" as everyone else - oh, except those to are instigating this whole process - THEY can have whatever they want.

 

[pgs]

We could argue about that all day, but the simple facts is that cost of living has outpaced wages at the lower end of the scale. It's just numbers, most people simply cannot afford to work for minimum wage any more. Employers who aren't keeping pace by raising wages appropriately, unlike the service industry employers who aren't whining about labour shortages, are finding that they are chronically short of staff due to high turnover, and/or having to settle for workers no one else will hire. While the pandemic has shone a spotlight on thei issue, it predates the pandemic by years. This isn't so much a discussion of what should be, but one of what actually is happening. People are finding better options, and as far as I'm concerned, it's an improvement.

Yes they have been using the same argument since the 1960s .The fact remains entry level jobs are just that , entry level .

 

[pgs]

That's an extreme that we are not likely to come anywhere close to in Canada, despite the need of some people to convince us otherwise. What is more likely is that without some course correction the current distribution of wealth which sees the chosen few enjoying a life of excess while the rest are worse off every year will only get worse.

I'm in the middle of the boomer age group, and I grew up in a time when a single middle class income could make a house payment, a car payment, keep food on the table and maybe take the family on a summer holiday or put a kid through college. It's no coincidence that those things started disappearing with the onset of neoliberal economic policy in the early seventies, when the bottom line became the only focus and family and community were demoted to consumers.

It is called excess taxation , we are currently giving 50% of our labor to the government . Chop that figure in half , most people would be better off .

 

[Nick Danger]

Yes they have been using the same argument since the 1960s .The fact remains entry level jobs are just that , entry level .

Entry into what, poverty ? Is it unreasonable to think that a job and "making a living" should be somewhat similar ? The point is that cost of living has risen steadily for decades while wages have remained stagnant in adjusted dollars. Workers are simply responding by refusing to work in jobs that don't offer any level of subsistence at all. They don't care that some people don't think they are entitled to a living wage, they are just saying no to shit wages, and I don't blame them one bit.

 

[pgs]

Entry into what, poverty ? Is it unreasonable to think that a job and "making a living" should be somewhat similar ? The point is that cost of living has risen steadily for decades while wages have remained stagnant in adjusted dollars. Workers are simply responding by refusing to work in jobs that don't offer any level of subsistence at all. They don't care that some people don't think they are entitled to a living wage, they are just saying no to shit wages, and I don't blame them one bit.

I don’t know where you live Nick , but my neighborhood is full of young home owning families . These are mostly 2 vehicle households and relatively well off . This is available to all Canadians who want to learn and improve their lot in life . I would also suggest most of these had entry level jobs at some point in life and came to the quick realization that it is not the place to stay . So you are correct in that workers migrate to jobs that pay well , isn’t that what you did ?

 

[Serryah]

Entry into what, poverty ? Is it unreasonable to think that a job and "making a living" should be somewhat similar ? The point is that cost of living has risen steadily for decades while wages have remained stagnant in adjusted dollars. Workers are simply responding by refusing to work in jobs that don't offer any level of subsistence at all. They don't care that some people don't think they are entitled to a living wage, they are just saying no to shit wages, and I don't blame them one bit.

Another problem with jobs really is that companies want to have employees part time or casual, and reduce full time hours. Sure they may hire a ton of employees, but no one is making full time wages and the hours are spread out over X people so that no one gets that full time hour.

The old tropes of "McDonald's is for teens" doesn't apply anymore, hasn't for years. Sure it started that way, then it was seniors no longer working just to make a few bucks extra, now it's the only job some people can get because other jobs are out of reach.

And on the flip side, Governments are doing their damnest to screw everyone, union and non, out of fair wages. I expect NB to go on strike (though TBH we should be right now) because Government doesn't give a flying fuck about us at all. Higgs is out to destroy NB worse than any Liberal or previous Con we've ever had.

Like a lot of things, wages are more than just "people sitting home to do nothing".

If Canada does go like China and North Korea (not that I think it will, I mean come the fuck on...), it's not due to workers just trying to fucking exist but due to asshole corporations and people who support them.

 

[pgs]

Another problem with jobs really is that companies want to have employees part time or casual, and reduce full time hours. Sure they may hire a ton of employees, but no one is making full time wages and the hours are spread out over X people so that no one gets that full time hour.

The old tropes of "McDonald's is for teens" doesn't apply anymore, hasn't for years. Sure it started that way, then it was seniors no longer working just to make a few bucks extra, now it's the only job some people can get because other jobs are out of reach.

And on the flip side, Governments are doing their damnest to screw everyone, union and non, out of fair wages. I expect NB to go on strike (though TBH we should be right now) because Government doesn't give a flying fuck about us at all. Higgs is out to destroy NB worse than any Liberal or previous Con we've ever had.

Like a lot of things, wages are more than just "people sitting home to do nothing".

If Canada does go like China and North Korea (not that I think it will, I mean come the fuck on...), it's not due to workers just trying to fucking exist but due to asshole corporations and people who support them.

Of course government doesn’t care , who said they should ?

 

[Jinentonix]

Entry into what, poverty ? Is it unreasonable to think that a job and "making a living" should be somewhat similar ?

Soooo a McDonald's fry cook should make $60,000 a year? And let's look at a typical McDonald's franchise. It can cost anywhere from $1 million to $2.1 million to buy a franchise with the typical franchisee making about $150,000/yr NET profit. That means the franchisee needs between 6 1/2 years to 14 years just to recoup their franchise cost. Let's face it, a paltry $150,000 net profit isn't exactly the hallmark of a greedy self-serving bastard.

7/11 is another example of those "low paying jobs". Sure if you're just a basic clerk you get the minimum wage. However the more responsibility you're willing to take on, the more you get paid. Hell back in the early part of the century a 7/11 clerk could make over $20/hr if THEY wanted to put in the effort. It's not up to the employer to act like a fucking charity and give you more money just 'cuz you think you're a swell guy.
Want to get paid more? Then upgrade your skills and find a better job and quit acting like showing up for your shift and doing the bare minimum entitles you to 6 figures.
Then there's the dead-head attitude of "Well if I'm only getting minimum wage, I'm only putting in minimum effort". Well, that's not who employers give raises and bonuses to. Just like the rest of the work force, minimum wage employers who can afford to do so, tend to reward those who work hard and stand out from the crowd with raises and/or bonuses.

 

[Nick Danger]

Yours and my ideas of how things should be are not the point at the moment, it's the reality of the numbers involved. A full time, minimum wage job earns just over $31K/yr before taxes. Current cost of living estimates for an individual in my area of the country (Okanagan Valley) range from $45K to $50K/yr. It's not a matter of how much that fry cook should make, to him it's a matter of what he needs to make to live here. It's up to the owner of the franchise to decide whether or not it's important to him to keep a stable, experienced staff or put up with the high turnover of a basically transient staff. In terms of labour these days, it's a seller's market.

 

[pgs]

Yours and my ideas of how things should be are not the point at the moment, it's the reality of the numbers involved. A full time, minimum wage job earns just over $31K/yr before taxes. Current cost of living estimates for an individual in my area of the country (Okanagan Valley) range from $45K to $50K/yr. It's not a matter of how much that fry cook should make, to him it's a matter of what he needs to make to live here. It's up to the owner of the franchise to decide whether or not it's important to him to keep a stable, experienced staff or put up with the high turnover of a basically transient staff. In terms of labour these days, it's a seller's market.

Did you work minimum wage jobs your whole life ?

 

[Dixie Cup]

Easiest solution is cut back on Gov. spending to reduce the tax bills and put the money back into taxpayer's pockets. If you cut the total tax bill in half a second income might not be needed to survive.

We are getting closer to being inclusively taxed $0.70 for every $1.00 earned from Municipal to Federal tax, with Gst and user fees to round it out

The key is to quit spending period!! It would be nice if the government lived within it's means but politics now-a-days is whatever they can give someone else at the expense of others, they'll do if it means getting their vote. Integrity has disappeared from politics unfortunately and unless or until we demand better from politicians and screw the "gravy train" then we'll get exactly what we voted for - more taxes, more debt and an economy on the verge of collapse.

 

[taxslave]

The labour shortage in the service sector has been around a lot longer than the pandemic.

It is not just the service sector now. It is everyone.

 

[taxslave]

Yes they have been using the same argument since the 1960s .The fact remains entry level jobs are just that , entry level .

On top of that some employees are truly not worth minimum wage.

 

[taxslave]

Entry into what, poverty ? Is it unreasonable to think that a job and "making a living" should be somewhat similar ? The point is that cost of living has risen steadily for decades while wages have remained stagnant in adjusted dollars. Workers are simply responding by refusing to work in jobs that don't offer any level of subsistence at all. They don't care that some people don't think they are entitled to a living wage, they are just saying no to shit wages, and I don't blame them one bit.

Totally unreasonable. If all the staff at places like rotten ronnies made a "living wage" the price of a cup of coffee would be $5.oo. And then if those people make $25/hr tradespeople like me have to make at least $60 to justify the training and tools. So in effect all you are doing is creating rampant inflation and the people at the low end will still be poor. Actually trades should be making $50+ now to justify the bother.
The real answer is to cut taxes and government spending. Then cut all the rules and regulations that drive up costs for no reason. Currently it takes 12+ weeks just to get a building permit around here. That is totally unreasonable.