Trudeau Is Going To Bury Us In Debt

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,219
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I can see why you spend it all complaining about Trudeau.
Thank you, but it's only a portion of my time. We have adult children and a few grandchildren already, and it's important that we all make an effort to avoid a Trudeau Liberal 3.0 situation with the next Federal Election be that in a few years or a few months. I don't want my Grand-kid's paying for Justin's mistakes while his Grand-kid's live on their trust funds.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
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No matter how you add it up, Harper’s fiscal record is a catastrophe

https://ipolitics.ca/2015/04/19/no-matter-how-you-add-it-up-harpers-fiscal-record-is-a-catastrophe/

On April 8, Finance Minister Joe Oliver stood up before the Economic Club in Toronto and delivered what can only be described as one of the greatest “fantasy economics” speeches in decades.

It was a message from a parallel universe — one in which the Harper government delivered ‘sound economic management’ through the recession (it didn’t), the economy recovered its pre-recession growth pattern (it hasn’t) and Ottawa is delivering tax relief for the average Canadian household (it isn’t). Stranger still, it’s a parallel universe where Pierre Trudeau is still around, haunting us.

In his speech, Oliver somehow contrived to blame Justin Trudeau for the alleged fiscal sins committed by his father during Trudeau Senior’s decade in power. (Justin Trudeau is 43. He was in his early teens when his father left office. Somehow we doubt Pierre was taking Justin’s fiscal advice at the time … but that’s the magic of rhetoric for you.)

According to Oliver, federal spending tripled between 1969 and 1979, driven by “the ideology of the man at the wheel and on the reckless assumption that commodity prices would remain high”. Change the timeline and Oliver could have been talking about Stephen Harper — but this is not a crowd that’s open to irony.

How bad a fiscal manager was Pierre Trudeau? Program spending did indeed triple between 1969 and 1979 in absolute terms. But measured as a share of GDP, program spending only rose from 15.4 per cent in 1969-70 to 16.7 per cent in 1979-80. As a share of GDP, revenues actually fell from 17.6 per cent in 1969-70 to 15.5 per cent in 1979-80.

According to Oliver, “Trudeau-era debt clung to Canada like a bad flu”. Actually, the federal debt burden only rose from 23.0 per cent to 27.7 per cent over the ten-year period. It rose further to 37.5 per cent in 1983-84, but this was due to the effects of the 1980-1981 recession.

In fact, the fiscal record of Trudeau Senior actually looks pretty good when compared to that of Brian Mulroney. Under Trudeau, the average annual deficit was 2.9 per cent of GDP between 1969-70 and 1979-80; under Mulroney the average annual deficit was 6.7 per cent of GDP between 1983-84 and 1994-95.

Between 1983-84 and 1994-95, program spending under Mulroney fell from 18.4 per cent of GDP to 15.7 per cent, while the revenue share actually rose from 15.6 per cent to 16.6 per cent. This weak performance, along with rising interest rates, resulted in the debt burden dramatically increasing from 37.5 per cent in 1983-84 to 66.6 per cent in 1994-95.

Mulroney did balance the operating budget — but that wasn’t nearly enough to solve the fiscal problem facing the government. In retrospect, the Mulroney government was simply reluctant to take the fiscal actions needed to stop the country from sliding into crisis in the early 1990s.

In 1984, the Conservative government actually published a document — ‘Agenda for Economic Renewal’ — which stated that, without major action to cut program spending and/or raise taxes, the federal debt burden would double by the end of the decade. Which is exactly what happened. (Disclosure: Both of us were heavily involved in the preparation of all of the Mulroney budgets.)

Mulroney’s Finance minister, Michael Wilson, did his best to warn Canadians about the dangers of failing to aggressively contain the fiscal problem. His May 1985 budget did raise revenues and reduce spending. However, after the confrontation between the “senior from Vanier and Mr. Mulroney” over changes to old age security benefits, Mr. Wilson lost not only the PM’s support for further measures to reduce the deficit, but also the backing of the business community. Wilson was on his own.

So what about the Liberals? Oliver is hardly going to give any credit to Jean Chretien and Paul Martin for getting the federal government out of the worst fiscal crisis it had ever faced.

According to Oliver, the Liberals balanced the budget “by hiking taxes, cutting vital programs and slashing billions in transfer payments.” (Disclosure: Both of us were very involved in the preparation of the Liberal budgets in 1994-1995 and subsequent years.)

Now, as far as we can recall, the Liberals imposed a temporary capital tax on large deposit taking institutions; a higher tax on large corporations; a temporary corporate surtax; and higher excise taxes on gasoline and tobacco products. That was it. There were no higher taxes on the elderly, as Oliver has claimed. Indeed the Liberal government benefitted from the Mulroney government’s decision to introduce the GST in 1991, reform the personal and corporate income tax systems, partially de-index the personal income tax system in 1984, implement the North America Free Trade Agreement and sell several Crown corporations – all major structural changes which fostered economic growth and resulted in a more stable fiscal situation. Finally, the Liberal government eventually implemented the largest income tax (personal and corporate) reduction in Canadian history in the 2000 budget.

There was no slashing of vital programs in the 1995 budget. Quite the opposite; for the first time, the government introduced a process to carefully review federal program spending — what it was doing, what it should be doing. That program review process was transparent and accountable — unlike the spending reviews undertaken by the Harper government since 2010, for which the government has refused to provide information to the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

Granted, the Liberals did cut transfer payments to the provinces. But with debt as a percentage of GDP at a post-Second World War high and with ever-increasing interest rates due to a lack of confidence in financial markets, everything had to be put on the table. Once the federal government achieved a balanced budget, that interest rate risk premium quickly disappeared and all levels of government benefited from lower borrowing costs. The Liberals then introduced a 10-year plan which put the major transfers to the provinces on a sustainable and growing track.

In 1994-95, the federal deficit was 4.7 per cent of GDP. By 1997-98 the deficit had been eliminated and the federal government ran surpluses for the next nine years. The federal debt was actually reduced by $90 billion; the debt burden fell from 66.6 per cent in 1994-95 to 31.4 per cent in 2006-07.

How does this compare to the Harper government’s fiscal record? In 2006-07, the Conservatives inherited a surplus of $13.8 billion — which they turned into a deficit of $5.8 billion within two years.

Since then, they have been in deficit each and every year. In 2009-10, the deficit reached its peak of 3.5 per cent of GDP. They are desperate now to show a surplus in 2015-16 — one surplus in nine years. Since Harper was elected, the federal debt has increased by over $150 billion, wiping out the reduction in federal debt achieved under Chretien and Martin. Not much to boast about there.

Joe Oliver has announced that the government will introduce balanced budget legislation. But legislation won’t keep a government out of the red if it lacks the political will to do so.

What about the government’s commitment to economic growth and job creation? Who hasn’t heard about the 1.2 million jobs created since “the depths of the recession”? Again — time for a reality check.

The figure — 1.2 million — is correct, but almost meaningless. It certainly doesn’t describe the performance of the economy since 2006 and the labour market situation in Canada. Since 2006, economic growth has declined in every year since 2010 and averaged only 1.7 per cent per year. In the previous nine years, economic growth averaged 3.4 per cent per year. In 2014, only 120,000 new jobs were created — less than in 2013.

At the end of 2014, the unemployment rate was higher than at the end of 2008. The labour force participation rate was lower than in 2008. The employment rate (the percentage of the adult population employed) was lower than at the end of 2008. The youth unemployment rate was higher than at the end of 2008. The share of total employment made up of full-time jobs was less than in 2008 — and the quality of jobs had sunk to its lowest level in a quarter of a century.

Then there’s Oliver’s claim that his government has put money back in the hands of Canadians through its commitment to reducing taxes. This government has definitely cut taxes for high-income, single-earner families with children under 18 — just 15 per cent of all families. They’ve been very good to families with teenage children who — somehow — still need ‘child care’. They’ve been generous to families who can afford to put their kids in sports leagues and summer camps, and they’ve cut taxes for high-income seniors who can split their pension income with a spouse.

The government has announced it will double the contribution limits for Tax-Free Savings Accounts, despite research by the PBO and others indicating this will — again — overwhelmingly benefit high-income Canadians and leave a growing unfunded liability to be paid for by all Canadians in the future. Oliver and Harper claim to be doing this for our grandchildren. Somehow we don’t think they’ll be grateful.

All of this, of course, came after the government’s biggest and most foolish tax cut — the two point cut in the GST which every economist warned them was a terrible idea. Sure enough, it was a major factor in putting the government into deficit.

The key thing to remember here is that these tax cuts accomplished nothing for the economy. None of them contributed to economic growth or job creation. They certainly didn’t contribute to tax fairness.

Numbers don’t lie, but people do. It’s one thing to spin your failures as successes — it’s another thing entirely to try to present a decade of fiscal failure as one long triumph. The journalists going into the budget lockup will have their work cut out for them, trying to separate the Harper government’s fiscal fantasies from the true record of the past ten years.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,219
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Sorry, made supper, ate, did the dishes, etc...& my Girlfriend it out'a town with our dogs for the weekend so I've got a bit more time.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-2019.pdf
For the 2015/16 fiscal year, Fuss et al. (2019) made an adjustment for the transition from Stephen Harper to Justin Trudeau. We have made a similar adjustment because Justin Trudeau increased government spending im-mediately upon taking office in 2015. The original 2015 budget, under Stephen Harper, planned for a surplus ($1.4 billion), while the im-mediate spending increases introduced by Jus-tin Trudeau ultimately led to a budget deficit ($2.9 billion). These spending changes meant that more debt was amassed by Trudeau than was planned for under Harper (Canada, De-partment of Finance, 2015 and 2018).3 As a re-sult, the cut-off period for debt accumulation under Harper was adjusted to reflect the debt projected in the original 2015 budget ($1.1 tril-lion in 2019 dollars). The beginning point for the change in debt during Justin Trudeau’s tenure is also the 2015 budget number.



Justin isn't out of office yet so he's not done doing what he's doing, so he's not in the above list yet.

http://financialpost.com/opinion/wi...per-years-were-rife-with-plagues-and-hellfire
The fall of 2008 a major financial crash in the U.S. and other places threatened to deflate the world economy, Canada’s obviously included. As part of a co-ordinated international response, though they likely would have done it without multilateral pressure, Harper and his finance minister, the late Jim Flaherty, applied orthodox Keynesian countercyclical fiscal policy.

But, fiscal conservatives that they were, they also said they were doing so strictly on a temporary basis. And they were true to their word. Within five years the $56-billion deficit was down to $0.6 billion — basically gone, as Harper and Flaherty had said it would be. That did involve “cuts.” Program expenditures actually fell in one year, which is more or less unheard of in Ottawa. But that “cut” of roughly $5 billion came after an increase of $32 billion the previous year, so it doesn’t really count.

What we observed post-Crash from the Harper government was purposeful rapid expansion of the deficit to deal with an economic emergency, followed by purposeful, adult control over spending to make sure the deficit did promptly come to heel.

Compare that to the fiscal record following 2015. A new government said it would run a modest deficit — $10 billion — to deal with what turned out to be a slight economic slowdown in the summer of 2015 but would then return to budgetary balance after the “emergency” was over. Once in office, however, it increased the deficit to well beyond $10 billion and it has now decided its fiscal anchor will be, not budget balance, but the debt-to-GDP ratio, which its election platform shows falling very slowly, from 30.9 per cent next fiscal year to 30.2 per cent in 2023-24.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/federal-government-posts-third-straight-double-digit-deficit-with-14b-shortfall

The Liberals won the 2015 election on a platform that promised annual deficits of no more than $10 billion and to return to balance by 2019. Ahead of the October 2019 federal election, the Liberals have laid out projections calling for five more years of deficits of at least $10 billion.

The federal government ran a $14-billion deficit in 2018-19, according to its latest annual financial report, the third year in a row with a shortfall bigger than $10 billion. The 2018-19 deficit follows two straight $19-billion shortfalls, and the annual financial numbers haven’t shown a surplus since 2006-07.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/prime-minister-trudeau-cements-his-debt-legacy

With this year’s (being last year before the last 2019 federal election) federal budget, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau firmly established his fiscal legacy. No Canadian prime minister has spent more money (per person, inflation-adjusted) or accumulated more debt (per person), outside a world war or recession, than Prime Minister Trudeau.

Canada’s gross debt will increase this year (meaning last year before anyone outside of China had heard of COVID 19) by almost $120 billion (again, adjusted for inflation) since the previous government tabled its last budget in 2015. On a per-person basis, each Canadian has acquired $1,725 more in federal debt since Prime Minister Trudeau took office.

This is historically significant. A recent study, which measured the debt performance of all prime ministers since 1870, found that only three prime ministers who did not face a world war or recession increased federal debt on a per person basisMackenzie Bowell, John Abbott and Justin Trudeau.

By the time Prime Minister Trudeau completes his current term (being his last term...), federal debt per person (inflation-adjusted) is projected to increase by 5.6 per cent, more than any prime minister who did not preside over a world war or recession. Further, Bowell and Abbott served as prime ministers in the late 19th century, which means that Justin Trudeau is the only prime minister this century or last to increase federal per-person debt without a global conflict or economic downturn (This is still previous to COVID 19).

This recent and sudden accumulation of debt is due to the rapid increase in program spending that immediately followed the fall 2015 federal election. The Trudeau government has steadily ramped up program spending, by 25 per cent over four years, reaching $323.5 billion for the year ended March 2019.

Had the federal government simply frozen per-person program spending (in real terms) at 2016 levels, total program spending last year would have been $6.3 billion lower. The federal government’s current appetite for spending has brought federal per-person program spending (again, after adjusting for inflation) to an all-time high, at $8,869 last year. That figure eclipses the previous high ($8,847) recorded by Prime Minister Harper during the Great Recession in 2009.

As well, the current Trudeau government has recorded the third and fourth highest per-person spending years (adjusted for inflation, and not counting 2020). It’s easy to see how the federal government has amassed so much debt so quickly. However, it’s harder to understand why the Trudeau government has chosen rapidly accumulating debt and increasing program spending, at unmatched levels, during a period of economic growth. This is a prescription for trouble when the economy slows (Again, this is from early in 2019).
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,616
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No matter how you add it up, Harper’s fiscal record is a catastrophe

https://ipolitics.ca/2015/04/19/no-matter-how-you-add-it-up-harpers-fiscal-record-is-a-catastrophe/

Blah blah blah whatabout Harper.
Funny for a guy who's whined about "whataboutism".


I also like how the article goes on about how every economist warned against the GST cut but when those SAME economists point out that an annual importation of 1% of the total population of a welfare state is a guaranteed recipe for disaster, you suddenly don't care what economists say. All that matters at that point is your narrative driven ideology.


Huh, I wonder why the our idiot "wonder boy" hasn't raised the GST back up? I guess he don't give a shit about what the economists said either.



Have you always been such a hypocritical, disingenuous twat or did your teachers program you to be that way?
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
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The young Stevie elected on a promise to get rid of the gold plated MP pensions.

Now retired, on a gold-plated pension, after running the Canadian debt to record levels, and working for the oil industry full-time like all retired conservatives
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
26,660
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Sorry, made supper, ate, did the dishes, etc...& my Girlfriend it out'a town with our dogs for the weekend so I've got a bit more time.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-2019.pdf
For the 2015/16 fiscal year, Fuss et al. (2019) made an adjustment for the transition from Stephen Harper to Justin Trudeau. We have made a similar adjustment because Justin Trudeau increased government spending im-mediately upon taking office in 2015. The original 2015 budget, under Stephen Harper, planned for a surplus ($1.4 billion), while the im-mediate spending increases introduced by Jus-tin Trudeau ultimately led to a budget deficit ($2.9 billion). These spending changes meant that more debt was amassed by Trudeau than was planned for under Harper (Canada, De-partment of Finance, 2015 and 2018).3 As a re-sult, the cut-off period for debt accumulation under Harper was adjusted to reflect the debt projected in the original 2015 budget ($1.1 tril-lion in 2019 dollars). The beginning point for the change in debt during Justin Trudeau’s tenure is also the 2015 budget number.



Justin isn't out of office yet so he's not done doing what he's doing, so he's not in the above list yet.

http://financialpost.com/opinion/wi...per-years-were-rife-with-plagues-and-hellfire
The fall of 2008 a major financial crash in the U.S. and other places threatened to deflate the world economy, Canada’s obviously included. As part of a co-ordinated international response, though they likely would have done it without multilateral pressure, Harper and his finance minister, the late Jim Flaherty, applied orthodox Keynesian countercyclical fiscal policy.

But, fiscal conservatives that they were, they also said they were doing so strictly on a temporary basis. And they were true to their word. Within five years the $56-billion deficit was down to $0.6 billion — basically gone, as Harper and Flaherty had said it would be. That did involve “cuts.” Program expenditures actually fell in one year, which is more or less unheard of in Ottawa. But that “cut” of roughly $5 billion came after an increase of $32 billion the previous year, so it doesn’t really count.

What we observed post-Crash from the Harper government was purposeful rapid expansion of the deficit to deal with an economic emergency, followed by purposeful, adult control over spending to make sure the deficit did promptly come to heel.

Compare that to the fiscal record following 2015. A new government said it would run a modest deficit — $10 billion — to deal with what turned out to be a slight economic slowdown in the summer of 2015 but would then return to budgetary balance after the “emergency” was over. Once in office, however, it increased the deficit to well beyond $10 billion and it has now decided its fiscal anchor will be, not budget balance, but the debt-to-GDP ratio, which its election platform shows falling very slowly, from 30.9 per cent next fiscal year to 30.2 per cent in 2023-24.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/federal-government-posts-third-straight-double-digit-deficit-with-14b-shortfall

The Liberals won the 2015 election on a platform that promised annual deficits of no more than $10 billion and to return to balance by 2019. Ahead of the October 2019 federal election, the Liberals have laid out projections calling for five more years of deficits of at least $10 billion.

The federal government ran a $14-billion deficit in 2018-19, according to its latest annual financial report, the third year in a row with a shortfall bigger than $10 billion. The 2018-19 deficit follows two straight $19-billion shortfalls, and the annual financial numbers haven’t shown a surplus since 2006-07.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/prime-minister-trudeau-cements-his-debt-legacy

With this year’s (being last year before the last 2019 federal election) federal budget, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau firmly established his fiscal legacy. No Canadian prime minister has spent more money (per person, inflation-adjusted) or accumulated more debt (per person), outside a world war or recession, than Prime Minister Trudeau.

Canada’s gross debt will increase this year (meaning last year before anyone outside of China had heard of COVID 19) by almost $120 billion (again, adjusted for inflation) since the previous government tabled its last budget in 2015. On a per-person basis, each Canadian has acquired $1,725 more in federal debt since Prime Minister Trudeau took office.

This is historically significant. A recent study, which measured the debt performance of all prime ministers since 1870, found that only three prime ministers who did not face a world war or recession increased federal debt on a per person basisMackenzie Bowell, John Abbott and Justin Trudeau.

By the time Prime Minister Trudeau completes his current term (being his last term...), federal debt per person (inflation-adjusted) is projected to increase by 5.6 per cent, more than any prime minister who did not preside over a world war or recession. Further, Bowell and Abbott served as prime ministers in the late 19th century, which means that Justin Trudeau is the only prime minister this century or last to increase federal per-person debt without a global conflict or economic downturn (This is still previous to COVID 19).

This recent and sudden accumulation of debt is due to the rapid increase in program spending that immediately followed the fall 2015 federal election. The Trudeau government has steadily ramped up program spending, by 25 per cent over four years, reaching $323.5 billion for the year ended March 2019.

Had the federal government simply frozen per-person program spending (in real terms) at 2016 levels, total program spending last year would have been $6.3 billion lower. The federal government’s current appetite for spending has brought federal per-person program spending (again, after adjusting for inflation) to an all-time high, at $8,869 last year. That figure eclipses the previous high ($8,847) recorded by Prime Minister Harper during the Great Recession in 2009.

As well, the current Trudeau government has recorded the third and fourth highest per-person spending years (adjusted for inflation, and not counting 2020). It’s easy to see how the federal government has amassed so much debt so quickly. However, it’s harder to understand why the Trudeau government has chosen rapidly accumulating debt and increasing program spending, at unmatched levels, during a period of economic growth. This is a prescription for trouble when the economy slows (Again, this is from early in 2019).
But that no good stinking minority woman conservative cabinet minister had orange juice . And that was before we knew the orange man was bad .
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
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It seems odd to complain about Trudeau's debt and be a Trump booster when his debt is far worse.

Of course it all comes back to climate change being a hoax and only white people facing discrimination thing.

That is the bedrock of the anti-Trudeau movement, and why it is such a joke.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,219
8,056
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
It seems odd to complain about Trudeau's debt and be a Trump booster when his debt is far worse.

Of course it all comes back to climate change being a hoax and only white people facing discrimination thing.

That is the bedrock of the anti-Trudeau movement, and why it is such a joke.
Well, I question the Climate Change thing in that is it warming or cooling or is this part of a natural cycle with a portion of that being influenced by man by that extent being an unknown.



You must be the Trump Fanboy & the one believing only white people facing discrimination thing 'cuz that sure as shit isn't me.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
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Vernon, B.C.
It seems odd to complain about Trudeau's debt and be a Trump booster when his debt is far worse.

Of course it all comes back to climate change being a hoax and only white people facing discrimination thing.

That is the bedrock of the anti-Trudeau movement, and why it is such a joke.


When you compare populations and the value of the two dollars, how much worse is Trump's debt PER CAPITA? You should take the time to think things through, Hoid, before blurting out shit! :)
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
No matter how you add it up, Harper’s fiscal record is a catastrophe
https://ipolitics.ca/2015/04/19/no-matter-how-you-add-it-up-harpers-fiscal-record-is-a-catastrophe/
On April 8, Finance Minister Joe Oliver stood up before the Economic Club in Toronto and delivered what can only be described as one of the greatest “fantasy economics” speeches in decades.
It was a message from a parallel universe — one in which the Harper government delivered ‘sound economic management’ through the recession (it didn’t), the economy recovered its pre-recession growth pattern (it hasn’t) and Ottawa is delivering tax relief for the average Canadian household (it isn’t). Stranger still, it’s a parallel universe where Pierre Trudeau is still around, haunting us.
In his speech, Oliver somehow contrived to blame Justin Trudeau for the alleged fiscal sins committed by his father during Trudeau Senior’s decade in power. (Justin Trudeau is 43. He was in his early teens when his father left office. Somehow we doubt Pierre was taking Justin’s fiscal advice at the time … but that’s the magic of rhetoric for you.)
According to Oliver, federal spending tripled between 1969 and 1979, driven by “the ideology of the man at the wheel and on the reckless assumption that commodity prices would remain high”. Change the timeline and Oliver could have been talking about Stephen Harper — but this is not a crowd that’s open to irony.
How bad a fiscal manager was Pierre Trudeau? Program spending did indeed triple between 1969 and 1979 in absolute terms. But measured as a share of GDP, program spending only rose from 15.4 per cent in 1969-70 to 16.7 per cent in 1979-80. As a share of GDP, revenues actually fell from 17.6 per cent in 1969-70 to 15.5 per cent in 1979-80.
According to Oliver, “Trudeau-era debt clung to Canada like a bad flu”. Actually, the federal debt burden only rose from 23.0 per cent to 27.7 per cent over the ten-year period. It rose further to 37.5 per cent in 1983-84, but this was due to the effects of the 1980-1981 recession.
In fact, the fiscal record of Trudeau Senior actually looks pretty good when compared to that of Brian Mulroney. Under Trudeau, the average annual deficit was 2.9 per cent of GDP between 1969-70 and 1979-80; under Mulroney the average annual deficit was 6.7 per cent of GDP between 1983-84 and 1994-95.
Between 1983-84 and 1994-95, program spending under Mulroney fell from 18.4 per cent of GDP to 15.7 per cent, while the revenue share actually rose from 15.6 per cent to 16.6 per cent. This weak performance, along with rising interest rates, resulted in the debt burden dramatically increasing from 37.5 per cent in 1983-84 to 66.6 per cent in 1994-95.
Mulroney did balance the operating budget — but that wasn’t nearly enough to solve the fiscal problem facing the government. In retrospect, the Mulroney government was simply reluctant to take the fiscal actions needed to stop the country from sliding into crisis in the early 1990s.
In 1984, the Conservative government actually published a document — ‘Agenda for Economic Renewal’ — which stated that, without major action to cut program spending and/or raise taxes, the federal debt burden would double by the end of the decade. Which is exactly what happened. (Disclosure: Both of us were heavily involved in the preparation of all of the Mulroney budgets.)
Mulroney’s Finance minister, Michael Wilson, did his best to warn Canadians about the dangers of failing to aggressively contain the fiscal problem. His May 1985 budget did raise revenues and reduce spending. However, after the confrontation between the “senior from Vanier and Mr. Mulroney” over changes to old age security benefits, Mr. Wilson lost not only the PM’s support for further measures to reduce the deficit, but also the backing of the business community. Wilson was on his own.
So what about the Liberals? Oliver is hardly going to give any credit to Jean Chretien and Paul Martin for getting the federal government out of the worst fiscal crisis it had ever faced.
According to Oliver, the Liberals balanced the budget “by hiking taxes, cutting vital programs and slashing billions in transfer payments.” (Disclosure: Both of us were very involved in the preparation of the Liberal budgets in 1994-1995 and subsequent years.)
Now, as far as we can recall, the Liberals imposed a temporary capital tax on large deposit taking institutions; a higher tax on large corporations; a temporary corporate surtax; and higher excise taxes on gasoline and tobacco products. That was it. There were no higher taxes on the elderly, as Oliver has claimed. Indeed the Liberal government benefitted from the Mulroney government’s decision to introduce the GST in 1991, reform the personal and corporate income tax systems, partially de-index the personal income tax system in 1984, implement the North America Free Trade Agreement and sell several Crown corporations – all major structural changes which fostered economic growth and resulted in a more stable fiscal situation. Finally, the Liberal government eventually implemented the largest income tax (personal and corporate) reduction in Canadian history in the 2000 budget.
There was no slashing of vital programs in the 1995 budget. Quite the opposite; for the first time, the government introduced a process to carefully review federal program spending — what it was doing, what it should be doing. That program review process was transparent and accountable — unlike the spending reviews undertaken by the Harper government since 2010, for which the government has refused to provide information to the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
Granted, the Liberals did cut transfer payments to the provinces. But with debt as a percentage of GDP at a post-Second World War high and with ever-increasing interest rates due to a lack of confidence in financial markets, everything had to be put on the table. Once the federal government achieved a balanced budget, that interest rate risk premium quickly disappeared and all levels of government benefited from lower borrowing costs. The Liberals then introduced a 10-year plan which put the major transfers to the provinces on a sustainable and growing track.
In 1994-95, the federal deficit was 4.7 per cent of GDP. By 1997-98 the deficit had been eliminated and the federal government ran surpluses for the next nine years. The federal debt was actually reduced by $90 billion; the debt burden fell from 66.6 per cent in 1994-95 to 31.4 per cent in 2006-07.
How does this compare to the Harper government’s fiscal record? In 2006-07, the Conservatives inherited a surplus of $13.8 billion — which they turned into a deficit of $5.8 billion within two years.
Since then, they have been in deficit each and every year. In 2009-10, the deficit reached its peak of 3.5 per cent of GDP. They are desperate now to show a surplus in 2015-16 — one surplus in nine years. Since Harper was elected, the federal debt has increased by over $150 billion, wiping out the reduction in federal debt achieved under Chretien and Martin. Not much to boast about there.
Joe Oliver has announced that the government will introduce balanced budget legislation. But legislation won’t keep a government out of the red if it lacks the political will to do so.
What about the government’s commitment to economic growth and job creation? Who hasn’t heard about the 1.2 million jobs created since “the depths of the recession”? Again — time for a reality check.
The figure — 1.2 million — is correct, but almost meaningless. It certainly doesn’t describe the performance of the economy since 2006 and the labour market situation in Canada. Since 2006, economic growth has declined in every year since 2010 and averaged only 1.7 per cent per year. In the previous nine years, economic growth averaged 3.4 per cent per year. In 2014, only 120,000 new jobs were created — less than in 2013.
At the end of 2014, the unemployment rate was higher than at the end of 2008. The labour force participation rate was lower than in 2008. The employment rate (the percentage of the adult population employed) was lower than at the end of 2008. The youth unemployment rate was higher than at the end of 2008. The share of total employment made up of full-time jobs was less than in 2008 — and the quality of jobs had sunk to its lowest level in a quarter of a century.
Then there’s Oliver’s claim that his government has put money back in the hands of Canadians through its commitment to reducing taxes. This government has definitely cut taxes for high-income, single-earner families with children under 18 — just 15 per cent of all families. They’ve been very good to families with teenage children who — somehow — still need ‘child care’. They’ve been generous to families who can afford to put their kids in sports leagues and summer camps, and they’ve cut taxes for high-income seniors who can split their pension income with a spouse.
The government has announced it will double the contribution limits for Tax-Free Savings Accounts, despite research by the PBO and others indicating this will — again — overwhelmingly benefit high-income Canadians and leave a growing unfunded liability to be paid for by all Canadians in the future. Oliver and Harper claim to be doing this for our grandchildren. Somehow we don’t think they’ll be grateful.
All of this, of course, came after the government’s biggest and most foolish tax cut — the two point cut in the GST which every economist warned them was a terrible idea. Sure enough, it was a major factor in putting the government into deficit.
The key thing to remember here is that these tax cuts accomplished nothing for the economy. None of them contributed to economic growth or job creation. They certainly didn’t contribute to tax fairness.
Numbers don’t lie, but people do. It’s one thing to spin your failures as successes — it’s another thing entirely to try to present a decade of fiscal failure as one long triumph. The journalists going into the budget lockup will have their work cut out for them, trying to separate the Harper government’s fiscal fantasies from the true record of the past ten years.
WOW. If yuou believe any of that garbage I will give you the deal of the century on some oceanfront property in Alberta.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
21,404
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Twin Moose Creek
Steven Harper: 8 straight deficit budgets

The pressure to spend by the Bloc, Libs, and NDP so they would approve the budgets while in minority had nothing to do with it?

Stephen Harper: Clinging to power (2006 – 2011)

OTTAWA — On the morning of Dec. 1, 2008, Stephen Harper’s world could not have been more bleak.

His minority government faced imminent defeat by a Liberal-NDP coalition. If a confidence vote took place in the House of Commons, his tenure as prime minister would be less than three years.

Harper faced two choices: Accept defeat and hope to fight another day, as Opposition leader, or find some way to stop the coalition from taking power.

Three cabinet ministers — House Leader Jay Hill, Senate Leader Marjory LeBreton and Public Works Minister Christian Paradis — were ushered into his third-floor office on Parliament Hill.

Outside, the early winter weather matched the mood: rain and fog after a miserable night during which ice pellets had fallen.

Inside the wood-panelled office, an imposing portrait of Sir John A. Macdonald stared down at the group. Three of the prime minister’s aides — chief of staff Guy Giorno, deputy chief of staff Patrick Muttart, and principal secretary Ray Novak — were also present. Harper, still weak from a bug he had picked up during a recent international summit in Peru, was reeling in the face of a political disaster of his own making.

Just weeks after winning a second minority government, Harper’s government had introduced an economic statement many felt didn’t address a widening global meltdown. Instead of focusing on the looming recession, it contained a plan to end public subsidies for political parties — a lightning rod to the opposition, which could be crippled by it.

Harper, normally a sharp tactician, had not anticipated their fury, so fierce it sparked plans for a coalition government between Stephane Dion’s Liberals and Jack Layton’s NDP. Gilles Duceppe’s Bloc Quebecois would prop up the Dion-led government in the Commons.

As his ministers and aides gathered around him, Harper appeared worn down. Still, his initial hope was that any coalition would fall apart within months and he would be re-elected prime minister.

“He said, ‘Let’s go to the vote (in the Commons). Let’s fight this. I believe it’s wrong. I believe Canadians will see it’s wrong,’” Hill recalled.

Harper’s advisers that day didn’t necessarily agree. They wanted him to prevent a non-confidence vote by asking governor general Michaelle Jean to temporarily shut down Parliament — a process called prorogation.

LeBreton counselled, “Don’t let their foot in the door.” The coalition might last longer than expected. And even if it didn’t, it was the last thing Canada needed during a financial crisis, argued Hill.

Further, Hill warned, Harper might even be turfed from his job as party leader by Conservatives unhappy at losing power.

Then Harper got lucky. During a televised late-afternoon ceremony on Parliament Hill, Dion and Layton signed their coalition agreement and made a fatal mistake: allowing Duceppe to participate. He wasn’t a member of the coalition government, but it sure looked that way.

Harper realized immediately that the trio had handed him a powerful weapon in the public relations war. How could a coalition backed by separatists be allowed to govern?

Three days later, at 9:30 a.m., Harper drove up the long laneway of Rideau Hall to ask the governor general to prorogue Parliament. Michaelle Jean gave consent, but not before keeping him there for two hours, extracting a promise that he would seek opposition support for his next budget.

Prorogation bought Harper the time he needed: public support for the “separatist-backed” coalition sank. In the spring, Harper introduced a budget that received the support of Liberals, now led by Michael Ignatieff.

The victory came at a price. Harper spent billions on an economic stimulus package that pushed the country deep into debt – which unsettled some of his supporters and which he likely would have condemned as a young Reform MP.
Others felt it helped prevent the economy from sliding into a morass.

By then, Harper had also spent billions on bailing out the Canadian auto sector – again, once anathema to his philosophy. But many Canadians felt it saved thousands of jobs.....More


Did Harper really run eight straight deficits like the NDP, Liberals claim?

How accurate are their claims?

Spoiler Alert: The Canadian Press Baloney Meter is a dispassionate examination of political statements culminating in a ranking of accuracy on a scale of “no baloney” to “full of baloney.”

This one earns a rating of “a lot of baloney”: the statement is mostly inaccurate but contains elements of truth.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
Then he would have nothing to say.
I would say that if America has 10 times more people than Canada then their debt should be ten times higher than Canada's if debt per capita is equal.

So let's say Canada had $1 trillion in debt - then America should have $10 trillion in debt and the debt per capita would be equal.

Canadian debt may indeed have reached $1 trillion.

America's debt is $22 trillion

Comments? Questions?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
I would say that if America has 10 times more people than Canada then their debt should be ten times higher than Canada's if debt per capita is equal.

So let's say Canada had $1 trillion in debt - then America should have $10 trillion in debt and the debt per capita would be equal.

Canadian debt may indeed have reached $1 trillion.

America's debt is $22 trillion

Comments? Questions?


It wouldn't surprise me if the U.S. has about 50 times the amount of infrastructure that is screaming for maintenance. Do WE have huge cities in the same dire straits as Detroit and Baltimore? There's many factors to consider that we don't even have an inkling about. We have a large indigenous population, they have a huge indigenous, Black and Latin population. It would take a volume the size of an encyclopedia to be able to make a fair comparison. There's a thousand times more to it than the meagre statistics Hoidie mentions.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,404
11,454
113
Low Earth Orbit
19.8 billion actually looks pretty good right about now next to $343,000,000,000.00, bringing the overall debt to over $1,200,000,000,000.00. And this is just a snapshot!!
I guess the name of this thread should be changed to "Trudeau has completely and totally buried us in debt, paved over the excavation with a parking lot, and encased it in a Chernobyl style sarcophagus!!" With an incompetent financial socialist moron at the helm, the outcome of all this was completely predictable, but the depth of the destruction was not.
They borrowed $296B USD our dollar was .70 at the time meaning its $422B CAD


Corrected
 
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taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
I would say that if America has 10 times more people than Canada then their debt should be ten times higher than Canada's if debt per capita is equal.
So let's say Canada had $1 trillion in debt - then America should have $10 trillion in debt and the debt per capita would be equal.
Canadian debt may indeed have reached $1 trillion.
America's debt is $22 trillion
Comments? Questions?
Since I am to lazy to look what is the debt to GDP ratios?