Medieval porpoise burial found at a 13th century monk's retreat baffles experts

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,927
1,910
113
Archaeologists excavating a historic religious retreat have found the grave of a medieval porpoise.

The unusual discovery, thought to date from the 13th century, was made after three weeks of digging at the site in Guernsey.

The team found evidence of a grave and unearthed a skull and other skeletal remains, but were left puzzled when it became clear they were not human.


Medieval porpoise burial found at a 13th century monk's retreat off the coast of Guernsey baffles experts

The dig has been taking place at Chapelle dom Hue off the coast of Perelle
The unusual discovery is thought to date from around the 13th century
Porpoises were commonly eaten during medieval times by were not buried
There is no known religious significance to porpoises in the local region


By Tim Collins For Mailonline
19 September 2017

Archaeologists excavating a historic religious retreat have found the grave of a medieval porpoise.

The unusual discovery, thought to date from the 13th century, was made after three weeks of digging at the site in Guernsey.

The team found evidence of a grave and unearthed a skull and other skeletal remains, but were left puzzled when it became clear they were not human.


Archaeologist Dr Phil de Jersey (right) and Mike Deane (left) alongside the trench

Experts located the grave due to a change in the soil and were perplexed when they released the remains were those of a juvenile porpoise.

They cannot understand why the porpoise, which was commonly eaten during medieval times, was apparently given a burial.

The dig has been taking place at Chapelle dom Hue off Perelle, an island off the west coast of Guernsey.

Dr Philip de Jersey, a research associate at Oxford University who works at Guernsey Museum and Art Gallery, said he estimates that the skeleton, which was the first organic matter found on the dig, dated from the 13th or 14th century.

Dr de Jersey added: 'If we were in a church and we found something like this, based on the shape, we would think it was a grave cut.

'That is what puzzles me.

'If they had eaten it or killed it for the blubber, why take the trouble to bury it?'

Dr de Jersey said it appears as if the animal had been buried with care, unlike a donkey skeleton they found which had been dumped in a hole after it died.

There is no known religious significance to porpoises locally, although they were eaten commonly during this period.

Based on the soil strata, it is from the same time as the rest of the dig area and had not been buried at a later date.

Dr de Jersey added: 'It was cut down from the medieval layer and we have found medieval pottery in the same film.'

Apart from two rat holes, the skeleton is well preserved, despite the soil having a PH level of 4.5.


The unusual discovery, thought to date from the 13th century, was made after three weeks digging at the site off Guernsey


The team found evidence of a grave and unearthed a skull and other skeletal remains, but were left puzzled when it became clear they were not human

It is the first piece of organic matter to be found on this dig and means it can be used to carbon date the bones to give a more precise date.

Dr de Jersey added: 'It has been a most unexpected finish to the dig.

'The way the burial has been treated is totally bizarre. I have never come across anything like this before.'

The bones have now been removed and will be studied by a marine expert to confirm further details.


Shown here is site of the Chapelle Dom Hue dig at La Capelle, Perelle, Guernsey.*La Capelle is a rock within Guernsey and is nearby to La Rocque, Beacon Staff and Le Catioroc


Read more: Guernsey medieval porpoise burial*perplexes archaeologists | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Last edited:

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
they ran out of sheep?

Guernsey is extremely rich in old stories and legends concerning witchcraft and devil worship. If a dolmen featured in an old legend or folk story it was nearly always this one.
At the beginning of the seventeenth century Le Catioroc was noted as being the midnight haunt of the witches and wizards during the witchcraft trials held under Bailiff Amias de Carteret who was in office 1600-1630.
http://www.megalithicguernsey.co.uk/le_trepied_dolmen/

Witch burning was the global warming of the day
:)
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,927
1,910
113
they ran out of sheep?

Guernsey is extremely rich in old stories and legends concerning witchcraft and devil worship. If a dolmen featured in an old legend or folk story it was nearly always this one.
At the beginning of the seventeenth century Le Catioroc was noted as being the midnight haunt of the witches and wizards during the witchcraft trials held under Bailiff Amias de Carteret who was in office 1600-1630.
Le Trepied Dolmen at Le Catioroc, Guernsey

Witch burning was the global warming of the day
:)

Even today, the Channel Islands are a weird part of the British isles.

The island of Sark, for instance, is Europe's last-remaining feudal state. Cars are banned on the island. People travel around on horse and cart.

The celebrated Northumbrian saint, Cuthbert, cast ashore on a Scottish bay, was said to have found three porpoises or dolphins lying dead on the beach, as if miraculously presented there for his sustenance. To the faithful, whales and dolphins were bounties from above. With the Norman invasion, they became the preserve of the aristocracy and the holy orders because, classified as fish, they could be eaten on fast days of Wednesday and Friday. The name porpoise is itself a contraction of the Norman French, porc poisson.

In 1324, this right was enshrined in medieval legislation regarding “Fishes Royal”, which claimed any stranded whale, dolphin, sturgeon or porpoise for the monarch and his or her favourites. The law still loosely obtains today, administered by London’s Natural History Museum. Some years ago a large sturgeon – a bony, antediluvian-looking fish – delivered to the museum was offered to Buckingham Palace. The offer was politely declined.

And in an even odder cyclic collision of science, culture and myth, scientists have proposed that mathematical examination of Pictish pictograms like the Pictish beast may enable us to understand the communication systems used by dolphins, whose squeaks and whistles appear to be aural versions of such images, conveying meaning that is, as yet, beyond us.


Read the rest of the article: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...orpoise-is-not-the-first-such-mysterious-find
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
Yes, the porpoises are fish, the old church in full science mode as usual.

Well, sounds and whistles and croaks are all parts of various human languages too.

The dog likes to roll in dead fish and come home smelling great for the lord of the house too once in a while.
0o

About the Picts - they just found out they had trigonometric math (used in surveying and navigation) back well before the Picts in Mesopotamia and Egypt...goes with the "working cross" I keep mentioning.
 
Last edited:

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The Scientific Method post dates-Medieval times by five plus centuries. Science was a product of the enlightenment. There was no science in the Middle Ages.

Ah no. Science is many thousands of years practiced on earth as many thousands of engineering projects prove without reasonable doubt. The proof is in the cutting and shaping of stone like diorite and granite in sizes which in many cases are impossible to quarry or move today. You have just been enlightenmented.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Ah no. Science is many thousands of years practiced on earth as many thousands of engineering projects prove without reasonable doubt. The proof is in the cutting and shaping of stone like diorite and granite in sizes which in many cases are impossible to quarry or move today. You have just been enlightenmented.

Not science. Alchemy.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Not science. Alchemy.

You obviously believe enlightenment was a one off thing. It wasn't and isn't, enlightenment is cyclical with the rise and fall of civilizations. Our catostrophic history makes that clear. Like I wrote previously ancient engineering proves that beyond any doubt. Of course the quackademics will not admit the obvious evidence and just walk by circular saw evidence scattered all arround Giza for instance. Samples of the metal compositions of the saw blades used there has been analyzed. Did you know that Cheops has eight sides not four.
Any crew using bronze or copper chisels and stone hammers to construct something of the perfection of Cheops would still be shaping the foundations. It is an impossible engineering feat without advanced power tools and high math and high astronomical observation. It is absolutely certain that whomever built the great pyramid was far in advance of present human abilities.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,927
1,910
113
The Scientific Method post dates-Medieval times by five plus centuries. Science was a product of the enlightenment. There was no science in the Middle Ages.

Are you really suggesting that there was no science around before the 17th and 18th centuries?

Are you really suggesting that when Archimedes said around 250BC that "Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a stationary fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object", was not partaking in science?
 
Last edited:

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
Yup he is
;)
See what happens when they tear down all the historical statues.

"European science in the Middle Ages comprised the study of nature, mathematics and natural philosophy in medieval Europe.

Following the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the decline in knowledge of Greek, Christian Western Europe was cut off from an important source of ancient learning.

Although a range of Christian clerics and scholars from Isidore and Bede to Buridan and Oresme maintained the spirit of rational inquiry, Western Europe would see a period of scientific decline during the Early Middle Ages.

However, by the time of the High Middle Ages, the region had rallied and was on its way to once more taking the lead in scientific discovery (see Scientific Revolution).

According to Pierre Duhem, who founded the academic study of medieval science as a critique of the Enlightenment-positivist theory of a 17th-century anti-Aristotelian and anticlerical scientific revolution, the various conceptual origins of that alleged revolution lay in the 12th to 14th centuries, in the works of churchmen such as Aquinas and Buridan."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_science_in_the_Middle_Ages
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Are you really suggesting that there was no science around before the 17th and 18th centuries?

Are you really suggesting that when Archimedes said around 250BC that "Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a stationary fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object", was not partaking in science?

"Science" is a methodology of examining evidence in a specific manner. It is not "discovery".

You know not of what you write ...yet again.