Should Canada adopt right-to-work legislation?

[White_Unifier]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_work

Article 23.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:[1]

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

Article 20 states:

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.



— Universal Declaration of Human Rights, United Nations General Assembly


The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights states in Part III, Article 6:[2]

(1) The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right to work, which includes the right of everyone to the opportunity to gain his living by work which he freely chooses or accepts, and will take appropriate steps to safeguard this right.

(2) The steps to be taken by a State Party to the present Covenant to achieve the full realization of this right shall include technical and vocational guidance and training programmes, policies and techniques to achieve steady economic, social and cultural development and full and productive employment under conditions safeguarding fundamental political and economic freedoms to the individual.

— International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, United Nations General Assembly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_shop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_shop

Aside from the human-rights argument, there exist cultural and religious arguments too. Some cultures shun conflict and promote cooperation. Labour-management conflict is just one form of conflict. The purpose of a labour union is to organize against management. With that, depending on a persons beliefs or upbringing, though that person might join a labour union if necessary, he will not feel comfortable in it and might even have difficulty understanding its internal culture, in which case the union will be of no use to him if he can't understand its purpose or disagrees with its confrontational ethos.

 

[Danbones]

Right to work or left at home

you pays your vote and you takes your chance

 

[gerryh]

No..

 

[lone wolf]

Unions are trending toward big business and politics practice where the guy who represents you hasn't a clue of what it is you do. That makes unions just about as useless as politicians and executives. Why not have the right to ditch them?

 

[JamesBondo]

i think it is article 32 of the declaration of human rights and freedoms that states that none of the rights in the declaration should be allowed to justify the removal of other people's rights.

so does a minority of workers have the right to undermine the majority of employees that wish to form an association that is responsible for the collective agreement that all employees benefit from?

 

[White_Unifier]

i think it is article 32 of the declaration of human rights and freedoms that states that none of the rights in the declaration should be allowed to justify the removal of other people's rights.

so does a minority of workers have the right to undermine the majority of employees that wish to form an association that is responsible for the collective agreement that all employees benefit from?

No. Just as they have the right to associate and form a labour union to fight for their rights, others have a right to bow out. See how it works?

Also, who defines what is of benefit to them?

 

[JamesBondo]

If they have the right to bow out, how do you define that ? Is it just refusing to sign a card and pay union dues, or should they also refuse all benefits negotiated on their hehalf during the most recent round of collective agreement talks?

Is not paying due yet collecting the salary increase better defined az being a leach?

 

[White_Unifier]

If they have the right to bow out, how do you define that ? Is it just refusing to sign a card and pay union dues, or should they also refuse all benefits negotiated on their hehalf during the most recent round of collective agreement talks?

Is not paying due yet collecting the salary increase better defined az being a leach?

Who's forcing the union members to negotiate on behalf of the non-members?

 

[taxslave]

Who's forcing the union members to negotiate on behalf of the non-members?

That is what happens if you have both union and nonunion workers in the same workplace. The union workers generally set the rate so everyone else gets a free ride. Now if you have two places of business, one being union and the other non union they may be paid differently possibly the non union may even make more in wages and benefits but would also be expected to be more productive. BUT the nonunion place would have a much more difficult the fighting for health and safety concerns.

 

[White_Unifier]

That is what happens if you have both union and nonunion workers in the same workplace. The union workers generally set the rate so everyone else gets a free ride. Now if you have two places of business, one being union and the other non union they may be paid differently possibly the non union may even make more in wages and benefits but would also be expected to be more productive. BUT the nonunion place would have a much more difficult the fighting for health and safety concerns.

So what is your opinion? Should unions be allowed to force their employers to declare themselves closed-shop?

Why not just do what Germany has done by requiring corporations to reserve half of their board of directors to be elected by the workers with the chairman being elected by the shareholders and holding the balance of power. This way, we'd have a more cooperative rather than confrontational approach and no one would need to join a union then.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Over the last few decades big business has done a remarkably good job at defaming unions. Every time a labour problem arises it is the union's fault. In this manner they have managed to get union membership in Canada and the US down to less than 20%. However, it is interesting to note that the time of greatest middle class prosperity in Canada and the US was in the 1950s when union membership was much higher. It is also interesting to note that the average worker in Western Europe has a much higher wage and better benefits than the average Canadian or American worker. The so-called "right to work" BS is all about paying workers even less and leaving them even more vulnerable to the whims of their employers.

 

[justlooking]

Over the last few decades big business has done a remarkably good job at defaming unions. Every time a labour problem arises it is the union's fault.

Because it usually is. :lol:
Many unions have moved far far away from their original mandate to represent
the workers in the shop.
That dereliction of duty has hurt everyone.

In this manner they have managed to get union membership in Canada and the US down to less than 20%. However, it is interesting to note that the time of greatest middle class prosperity in Canada and the US was in the 1950s when union membership was much higher.

And a government that was more interested in regulating things.
Nothing happens in a vacuum.

It is also interesting to note that the average worker in Western Europe has a much higher wage and better benefits than the average Canadian or American worker. The so-called "right to work" BS is all about paying workers even less and leaving them even more vulnerable to the whims of their employers.

Much higher wages.. and much higher taxes to go with it.
Much better benefits.. see above.
Higher wages, better benefits, and far fewer jobs as well.

RIght to work states are a reaction to Federal policies that have allowed millions of jobs to be moved out of the US,
thus leaving the states to compete against each other in a desperate way to find work and attract investment to the state.

It isn't all about business, governments have their hands firmly in the pot as well.

 

[White_Unifier]

Over the last few decades big business has done a remarkably good job at defaming unions. Every time a labour problem arises it is the union's fault. In this manner they have managed to get union membership in Canada and the US down to less than 20%. However, it is interesting to note that the time of greatest middle class prosperity in Canada and the US was in the 1950s when union membership was much higher. It is also interesting to note that the average worker in Western Europe has a much higher wage and better benefits than the average Canadian or American worker. The so-called "right to work" BS is all about paying workers even less and leaving them even more vulnerable to the whims of their employers.

But if we had codetermination laws like in Germany, then unions would become essentially redundant.

 

[captain morgan]

Maybe the union should invest heavily enough in the company such that they could earn their seat on the Board like everyone else.

 

[justlooking]

But if we had codetermination laws like in Germany, then unions would become essentially redundant.

You love Merkel so much, you should go live under her.
She has free movement and lots of immigration and migrants and happy companies just waiting for you..

 

[DaSleeper]

They say that there are no stupid questions.... just stupid answers......

This thread belies that....

 

[White_Unifier]

You love Merkel so much, you should go live under her.
She has free movement and lots of immigration and migrants and happy companies just waiting for you..

I mentioned one particular German policy and you take it to mean that I espouse every policy Germany has ever adopted from Bismark's time to Merkel's. Come on, seriously.

 

[JamesBondo]

Who's forcing the union members to negotiate on behalf of the non-members?

Rand.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Because it usually is. :lol:
Many unions have moved far far away from their original mandate to represent
the workers in the shop.
That dereliction of duty has hurt everyone.



And a government that was more interested in regulating things.
Nothing happens in a vacuum.




Much higher wages.. and much higher taxes to go with it.
Much better benefits.. see above.
Higher wages, better benefits, and far fewer jobs as well.

RIght to work states are a reaction to Federal policies that have allowed millions of jobs to be moved out of the US,
thus leaving the states to compete against each other in a desperate way to find work and attract investment to the state.

It isn't all about business, governments have their hands firmly in the pot as well.

It is easy to bash unions, but here are a few irrefutable facts connected with their history.

1. The five day week came about because of unions
2. The eight hour day came about because of unions
3. Most safety measures in industry came about because of unions
4. Pension plans came about because of unions

And there is no doubt that citizens in nations that are highly unionized have longer life-spans, better health and social benefits, longer holidays, and a better quality of life. Certainly these nations have higher taxes, but those higher taxes come with benefits. So far as I can see low taxes only seem to benefit the wealthiest 10 or 20 percent of the population.

Additionally, unions are a strong force for democracy. That is why following World War II that the victorious Allies made sure that both Germany and Japan had a strong trade union movement.

Keep on bashing unions while enjoying

 

[justlooking]

It is easy to bash unions, but here are a few irrefutable facts connected with their history.

1. The five day week came about because of unions
2. The eight hour day came about because of unions
3. Most safety measures in industry came about because of unions
4. Pension plans came about because of unions

Exactly my point, what have unions done in the last 70 years, because those changes are 70 years old now
Financial scandals, murder, fueling money into politics, more money scandals,
all kinds of crap.

And there is no doubt that citizens in nations that are highly unionized have longer life-spans, better health and social benefits, longer holidays, and a better quality of life. Certainly these nations have higher taxes, but those higher taxes come with benefits. So far as I can see low taxes only seem to benefit the wealthiest 10 or 20 percent of the population.

Additionally, unions are a strong force for democracy. That is why following World War II that the victorious Allies made sure that both Germany and Japan had a strong trade union movement.

Keep on bashing unions while enjoying

Yaaaayyy, Soviet Union.. so no, unions are not the be all and end all of a happy life. Needs other things.