Justin Trudeau says abortion rights trump MPs' freedom to vote their conscience

[pgs]

Machjo, NO.... Firstly most women who have abortions do not have them because of rape. A man being raped umpteen times still cannot be impregnated. So one does not follow the other.

If you feel that the need for public education on women assaulting males, then by all means petition the lawmakers and politicians to get it done.

BUT.....understand that unwanted pregnancies are a fact of life. An unwanted child will not be the problem for a man. It it is not humane to allow a pregnancy to come to term, if a family cannot support another mouth to feed, or to give life to a fetus that will know nothing but pain or suffering for a very short life due to a fatal and/or genetic disease. Then, of course there are failures of birth control.

Trying to link abortions to women who rape doesn't cut it.
.


Well, now, where to start with such ignorant statements.....

First off, the impregnated human egg does not always developed into a copy of the parents.....ie hydidaform moles. Two, Life does not exist or is not considered viable until it is birthed. 3. Under the law, a human must be alive before it has rights. 4., it cannot live if born too prematurely; Spontaneous or induced early, abortions, produce nothing that would survive no matter what measure were taken.

Now, it seems to me that the whining individuals you refer as bitches in your post, are of the mostly whining male gender/ or male type, in this particular thread anyway.

By the way, what is it about turning as many women into slaves as possible, that revs your motor??

That's great but why do my tax dollars have to pay for them ?

NO....I mean the soughing away of an impregnated egg, as many female bodies do on their own. Do not call such a thing a child. For Pete's sake that is like calling all uterine growth, including that very ugly Hydidaform mole a child. You loose cells everyday.

However, when one does not wish to keep an ugly facial growth, or it begins to affect the quality of life, we are living in an age where something can be done about it What if you had one and I decided it was morally right for you to keep it and attempted to change the law regarding removal of said growth, on moral grounds. i.e.. Since God felt it right to allow one to grow on your face, it was morally wrong for you to attempt to remove it.

Think of all the morally terrible things all religions have used to enslave people, the prejudices against races, colors, creeds, and of course prejudices of the sexual kind that are still so prevalent today.

Why do my tax dollars pay for the soughing away of an unwanted impregnated egg ? Why can't the poor woman use her own money to pay for her birth control ?

 

[JLM]

Is that your idea of being pro life? Tacit approval of killing unborn children?

I don't approve of it, tacitly or otherwise, with one exception - the mother's health (she's not going to be much use to the kid if she's dead or infirm)

 

[bluebyrd35]

So, we should just stop. Since there is no law against a woman killing her unwanted child, for any reason,and the subject is highly polarized, we should just ignore it.

Is that your idea of being pro life? Tacit approval of killing unborn children?




I really don't care what the "law" is or what some say "biblical" is. I'm more concerned with the scientific facts, and if we stick with the fact.....science concurs that life begins at conception.

Don't be so ignorant!! IT IS NOT A CHILD UNTIL IT TAKES IT'S FIRST BREATH. IT IS IN NO WAY A HUMAN BEING, CHILD, BABY OR INFANT!!

Prove to the world that it breathes before birth, can cry or even fart!! Prove it's digestive system works, it is cognitive, all capable of feeling anything before birth!! Prove that there is any other reason other than your feeling that it is immoral. Tell us what makes you qualified to make judgements on morality, other than being a believer in your own idea of what morality is. Is it moral to interfere with the free will that God supposedly gave us. What right to you have to interfere with God's gift of that free will?

Quote please on when & where science says it is a viable, fully developed human being at the moment sperm impregnates the egg!!.

That's great but why do my tax dollars have to pay for them ?


Why do my tax dollars pay for the soughing away of an unwanted impregnated egg ? Why can't the poor woman use her own money to pay for her birth control ?

We are taxed through health care for the treatment of infertility. Now that is related. If we have to pay as a society to treat infertility, then by extension we are liable to pay for abortions.

 

[gerryh]

When Does Life Begin | Just The Facts

 

[bluebyrd35]

When Does Life Begin | Just The Facts

So does a cold. It's life also begins at conception. It is a question of viability Even a cold can be stopped, but nobody objects to that!!

 

[gerryh]

So does a cold. It's life also begins at conception. It is a question of viability Even a cold can be stopped, but nobody objects to that!!

A cold is not human.

 

[bluebyrd35]

Neither is a Zygote., embryo, fetus! It is not yet human. A seed is not the plant, Only a potential to become exists.

 

[gerryh]

Neither is a Zygote., embryo, fetus! It is not yet human. A seed is not the plant, Only a potential to become exists.

Science disagrees with you. How about you tell me what it is then, but f not human a dog? Cat? Frog?

 

[JLM]

Science disagrees with you. How about you tell me what it is then, but f not human a dog? Cat? Frog?

It's no use Gerry, I've posed the same question at least once probably three times. I suggested perhaps it could turn into a barnacle!

 

[bluebyrd35]

It's no use Gerry, I've posed the same question at least once probably three times. I suggested perhaps it could turn into a barnacle!

Well, we will never agree. It is not question that will ever be answered to everyone's satisfaction. Perhaps that is why many countries adopt the most reasonable solution to the individuals involved.

My beliefs are complicated and I would not consider attempting to influence another person either way. Any living female, should be free to do what is right for her, without condemnation or laying on of guilt. As much as possible most persons should have the freedom to decide whether they will bear a child or not, also whether they wish to live or die.

The young Jehovah Witness who died yesterday because of her religious beliefs, may have been wrong in her religious convictions but she had the right to choose. She lost her life because of it.

The freedom to choose to have an abortion i (despite it not being considered a right in all Provinces) is a something the individual who will share her body to birth a child must have. It is an insult to quite a number of people here that this is so. I have a hard time understanding this as these are mostly men, who will never be in a position for such a decision to ever impact their lives.

My choice was to take birth-control pills following the birth of my twins. If in spite of the pills, there has been another pregnancy, there would have been an abortion. My doctor felt all other pregnancies would end in an abortion spontaneous or otherwise. Any other children would either die in utero or die shortly after birth. That is why I hold my views, What excuse or reason to deprive the freedom to an abortion to those who need or want one, if it will never affect you??

 

[gerryh]

What excuse or reason to deprive the freedom to an abortion to those who need or want one, if it will never affect you??

because it is the purposeful killing of a human life. With your attitude, why get all bent out of shape if a 1 yr old is killed because it has now become a burden? Or a 5 yr old? or a teen? Or an Adult?

If your answer is because it is against the law, that is fine. I would like to see consistency and make it against the law to take any human life.


As for the right to do with her body as she see's fit, she has that right up until she chooses to engage in an act that can produce another life. She has the right, and the ability to decide not to engage in said activity so that abortion becomes a moot issue. Unfortunately, too many take the selfish route. It has been said to me time and time again that one can not expect someone to abstain from sex. I have a problem understanding why not. Are so many slaves to their base urges? Are they no better than an animal? Unable to control themselves?

If you want to be 100% sure not to get pregnant, then don't have sex. If you decide to have sex and there is any kind of chance that you could get pregnant, then take responsibility for your actions. Killing is NOT taking responsibility. It is avoiding responsibility.

 

[Machjo]

I know of no society in which a child is a viable human being capable of supporting himself independently of a parent or the state until he reaches at least the age of fifteen (and it's often much later than that). So why not allow an abortion up to the age of fifteen. We wouldn't want him to be a burden on his parents after all. A simple slicing of the throat would do the trick.

Also, just think how respectful kids would be if they knew their parents could pull the plug on them.

 

[bluebyrd35]

because it is the purposeful killing of a human life. With your attitude, why get all bent out of shape if a 1 yr old is killed because it has now become a burden? Or a 5 yr old? or a teen? Or an Adult?

If your answer is because it is against the law, that is fine. I would like to see consistency and make it against the law to take any human life.


As for the right to do with her body as she see's fit, she has that right up until she chooses to engage in an act that can produce another life. She has the right, and the ability to decide not to engage in said activity so that abortion becomes a moot issue. Unfortunately, too many take the selfish route. It has been said to me time and time again that one can not expect someone to abstain from sex. I have a problem understanding why not. Are so many slaves to their base urges? Are they no better than an animal? Unable to control themselves?

If you want to be 100% sure not to get pregnant, then don't have sex. If you decide to have sex and there is any kind of chance that you could get pregnant, then take responsibility for your actions. Killing is NOT taking responsibility. It is avoiding responsibility.

Well, that is your opinion. Mine is it is an abortion is more humane an act for the actual breathing, aware human being & trumps favoring an unaware, non-breathing bit of fertilized tissue!!

I know of no society in which a child is a viable human being capable of supporting himself independently of a parent or the state until he reaches at least the age of fifteen (and it's often much later than that). So why not allow an abortion up to the age of fifteen. We wouldn't want him to be a burden on his parents after all. A simple slicing of the throat would do the trick.

Also, just think how respectful kids would be if they knew their parents could pull the plug on them.

BIOLOGY
(of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions. Ergo, until the embryo takes it's first breath it is NOT viable.

That is the difference between killing and deciding to not bring a fertilized zygote to term.

 

[JLM]

I know of no society in which a child is a viable human being capable of supporting himself independently of a parent or the state until he reaches at least the age of fifteen (and it's often much later than that). So why not allow an abortion up to the age of fifteen. We wouldn't want him to be a burden on his parents after all. A simple slicing of the throat would do the trick.

Also, just think how respectful kids would be if they knew their parents could pull the plug on them.

Probably a good idea in an Uncivilized society!

 

[bluebyrd35]

No need to worry, as infertility in men is increasing rapidly:
More than 90% of male infertility cases are due to low sperm counts, poor sperm quality, or both. The remaining cases of male infertility can be caused by a range of conditions including anatomical problems, hormonal imbalances, and genetic defects.

Fertility timebomb found in drinking water | Daily Mail Online

Talk about a fitting revenge!! Taking charge of women's body seems to have backfired. Seems that not just the male fish are turning feminine; human males are going the same way.

 

[JLM]

No need to worry, as infertility in men is increasing rapidly:
More than 90% of male infertility cases are due to low sperm counts,

You don't give up, do you?

 

[bluebyrd35]

Nope!! I love how fate/God, co-incidence always evens up the scores when humans muck up....

 

[Machjo]

No need to worry, as infertility in men is increasing rapidly:
More than 90% of male infertility cases are due to low sperm counts, poor sperm quality, or both. The remaining cases of male infertility can be caused by a range of conditions including anatomical problems, hormonal imbalances, and genetic defects.

Fertility timebomb found in drinking water | Daily Mail Online

Talk about a fitting revenge!! Taking charge of women's body seems to have backfired. Seems that not just the male fish are turning feminine; human males are going the same way.

That's good news. It reduces the probability of an abortion taking place.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I know of no society in which a child is a viable human being capable of supporting himself independently of a parent or the state until he reaches at least the age of fifteen (and it's often much later than that). So why not allow an abortion up to the age of fifteen. We wouldn't want him to be a burden on his parents after all. A simple slicing of the throat would do the trick.

Also, just think how respectful kids would be if they knew their parents could pull the plug on them.

Now you're talking sense! Personally, I favor legal, optional abortion until the 75th trimester.

 

[Machjo]

Probably a good idea in an Uncivilized society!

We already agree on abortion, so why not bump the age up to fifteen? It would seem we all agree that it's not truly human until it can support itself. In some societies it would be even later than fifteen, but I'm feeling compassionate towards the poor kids.