Your thoughts on official unilingualism?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
If the "deal" with the foundation of the confederation would be to have services in all languages on earth it should be a plea but it was not.
The deal was to have same status for both founding Nation, french and english, all over canada. It never been respected with the result that now french remain only in Quebec and this confederation is under the control of the ROC only.
how about bilingualism by percent ?
you don't need 100 percent bilingual in the roc for 5 percent bilingual population
and vice versa
you only need provision enough bilingualism to handle the workload, just like we pretty much do for many other languages on a practical basis
you don't need 100 percent bilingual in the roc for 5 percent bilingual population
and vice versa
you only need provision enough bilingualism to handle the workload, just like we pretty much do for many other languages on a practical basis
The 'deal' was a dirty underhanded collusion between the English and the French against the indigenous and other minorities.
If you play with the devil, you get burnt. What did you expect?
Instead of fighting for exclusive equality between English and French to the exclusion of all others, Québec could have stood up as the champion of unofficial Deaf, indigenous and other minorities.
For example, imagine that in the 1960's it had pushed for the gradual promotion of Esperanto as a common second language with a special Constitutional status for the local sign language and indigenous language. Imagine that it allowed a school to teach in the language of its choice (even Chinese) according to market demand as long as everyone learns Esperanto as a common second language.
Few but native French speakers would have learnt French, but native French speakers would have been able to at least maintain their French and so not be threatened.
It's like the hand in the cookie jar. Be less greedy, take a smaller handful, and you can get your hand out. Too greedy and you lose it all.
Consider the League of Nations in 1922. France was vehemently opposed to Esperanto in spite of support. Through various shenanigans, France crushed it thinking French would benefit.
We reap what we sow.
But it's not too late. Think outside the box of just imposing French or English.
The deal was bad for native american. And it is a minimum to say that. It was very bad for them.
Quebec did a lot to correct this situation but, the deal is also that federal have the power on this. Quebec just can't do anything more for this.
But the fact that indians have been ****ed is not a free ticket to **** Quebecers also. You know what I mean ?
Just for fun:
I also visit a UK based forum from time-to-time and this is a fresh post just contributed by a noteably stuffy English poster:
We've just been up to the western Highlands for a week, and for once we struck lucky with the weather. A week of blue sky and high temperatures, with the natives complaining about the heat. How often does THAT happen in Fort William? But I digress. The reason I mention the Highlands is the fact that all the road signs, and destination banners are in Gaelic, with the English place names in much smaller print beneath. Now I don't know off-hand how many Scots use Gaelic as their first language, or even have a working understanding of it, but it must be a very, very small minority. So what's it all about? Is it the Scots Nats pandering to their separateness, or simply a powerful lobby group for that archaic language getting their way? As the vast majority of natives use English, and the place was swarming with tourists from overseas, perhaps the prominence of the language used should be the other way round, with Gaelic in brackets beneath the English place name.
Does this look familiar?
I'd probably see a similar post from a Frenchman travelling through Basque teritory.
I also visit a UK based forum from time-to-time and this is a fresh post just contributed by a noteably stuffy English poster:
We've just been up to the western Highlands for a week, and for once we struck lucky with the weather. A week of blue sky and high temperatures, with the natives complaining about the heat. How often does THAT happen in Fort William? But I digress. The reason I mention the Highlands is the fact that all the road signs, and destination banners are in Gaelic, with the English place names in much smaller print beneath. Now I don't know off-hand how many Scots use Gaelic as their first language, or even have a working understanding of it, but it must be a very, very small minority. So what's it all about? Is it the Scots Nats pandering to their separateness, or simply a powerful lobby group for that archaic language getting their way? As the vast majority of natives use English, and the place was swarming with tourists from overseas, perhaps the prominence of the language used should be the other way round, with Gaelic in brackets beneath the English place name.
Does this look familiar?
I'd probably see a similar post from a Frenchman travelling through Basque teritory.
Personal interest in learning second language is not the issue here
Gaelic and french in Quebec, same situation ? Really ?
ha ha ha ha
I agree. But the victim often becomes another perpetrator. That needs to be avoided too.
To take an example, what do you think of French as an official language at the UN but not Korean?
Not one of the six official languages if the UN is easy to learn. Not one even belongs to the same language family as Korean.
If I proposed that English and French be gradually replaced by Esperanto at the UN General Assembly and ECOSOC since it would save money and provide everyone with at least one easy language to learn. Would you agree to that? Why? Why not?
If I proposed that Québec gradually adopt only two official languages provincially +Esperanto and International Sign) with the local government guaranteeing some kind of reasonable status for the local indigenous and sign language and more language freedom in the private sector with public schools teaching the language of its choice acvording to market demand and Esperanto as a common second language, what would you say?
Even then French would continue to dominate across mist if Québec but the English threat would be greatly diminished in spite of English gaining greater freedom.
If you trample on minorities, they fight back and, worse yet, coallesce against you eventually.
I could agree for something like that for the local indigenous language. It's just a way to show respect.
The difference is this. They show respect to the local indigenous language. In Quebec, we impose the dominant language.
The ROC is equally inconsiderate.
To be clear, I do sympathize with the plight if French speakers. I am one.
My problem is with promoting French at the expense of unofficial languages.
We can't cry oppression while we ourselves are guilty of it however legitimate our own cry might be.
Queb, connais-tu une langue officieuse?
Learning an unofficial language definitely opens our eyes in a way official languages can't
What ?? Quebecers perpetrator on natives ???
You say yourself that we do more than anywhere else in the ROC for natives...
Natives are under federal responsibility. Québec can't do more by himself for them.
Natives off reserve are Québec's responsibility. But I agree that your are tied to a degree. If we observe off-reserve provincial laws though, I doubt a sovereign Quebec would be any better. Again, the kindness is an exchange. Québec gives money for both the indigenous language and French. In English Canadian provinces have no such incentive due to the dominance of English there.
In theory, the Ontario Ojibwa could tell Intario: Give us money for our language and we'll learn English, otherwise we'll learn French.
The dynamics are totally different.
So yes, Québec treats them better, but the motive questionable when Québec tirs the money it gives reserves to an obligation to learn French. It's self-seeking.
The ROC is no better.
But again, what's your position on French and Korean at the UN? The answerto that will reveal a person's true colours.
Oh, and not anywhere else. Nunavut dies more than Québec does, but that is because the majority of voters there are native.
If you're referring to the UN, I think we should gradually replace French and English by Esperanto. There's a rational reason. Esperanto is from five to ten times easier to learn than English. In official contexts, this would make French, English, Korean, Cree and Inuit equal.
What about them?
If you're referring to the UN, I think we should gradually replace French and English by Esperanto. There's a rational reason. Esperanto is from five to ten times easier to learn than English. In official contexts, this would make French, English, Korean, Cree and Inuit equal.
You'll never get them to give up what they have fought hard to keep alive and reintroduce.
That's my point.
Megwich
That's my point.
Megwich
Why Quebec athletes are leading the way for Canada at Sochi Games
Why Quebec athletes are leading the way for Canada at Sochi Games - The Globe and Mail
First, this thread is not about "unilingualism". It's about "multilingualism". What machjo is "proposing" is multiple languages across Canada, with the federal government having to supply services in what ever language the locals want. It would be a logistical and monetary nightmare.
When I was younger, all through high school, I would defend Quebec and quebecois. Used to pi$$ my old man off no end. He was French Canadian from Northern Ontario. He told me a story of going to Montreal, in the French section, and being ignored when he spoke French, both Parisian and the local patois that he grew up with. The Quebecers ignored him acting as if he was speaking some foreign language. He found them to be very ignorant and arrogant.
Now that I'm older, I see where he was coming from. What it comes down to, is that the English were more than fair with the French after the Plains of Abraham and France seceded. Now, it comes down to this. You don't like the way Canada is run, then fu ck off. Take your whiny, sorry a$$ somewhere else. Join the Acadians in Louisiana and see if it's better there for ya.
Canada is a bilingual country federally. Quebec should thank their lucky stars for that. We should scrap the not withstanding clause and dump bill 101 in that "poor me" "gimme gimme" province.
As for any other language being taught as a primary in schools. That is fine as long as the taxpayer isn't footing the bill. That can be paid for at the local user level. As long as English is also being taught.
and as for quebec being so much better than Canada when it comes to treatment of Natives and their lands. All I need to say is "Oka".
When I was younger, all through high school, I would defend Quebec and quebecois. Used to pi$$ my old man off no end. He was French Canadian from Northern Ontario. He told me a story of going to Montreal, in the French section, and being ignored when he spoke French, both Parisian and the local patois that he grew up with. The Quebecers ignored him acting as if he was speaking some foreign language. He found them to be very ignorant and arrogant.
Now that I'm older, I see where he was coming from. What it comes down to, is that the English were more than fair with the French after the Plains of Abraham and France seceded. Now, it comes down to this. You don't like the way Canada is run, then fu ck off. Take your whiny, sorry a$$ somewhere else. Join the Acadians in Louisiana and see if it's better there for ya.
Canada is a bilingual country federally. Quebec should thank their lucky stars for that. We should scrap the not withstanding clause and dump bill 101 in that "poor me" "gimme gimme" province.
As for any other language being taught as a primary in schools. That is fine as long as the taxpayer isn't footing the bill. That can be paid for at the local user level. As long as English is also being taught.
and as for quebec being so much better than Canada when it comes to treatment of Natives and their lands. All I need to say is "Oka".