The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

[FiveParadox]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

....and as soon as the arrogant bastards realize that the foundational aspects of the electoral system are NOT theirs to change, that they belong to the people, and that the people MUST be consulted to make any change legitimate, then I will say we have actually achieved something.

I am sure that you will be delighted to hear then, Colpy, that this committee is being charged with exactly that — conducting a broad and national consultation with Canadians to hear, from us, what we would like to see in respect of electoral reform.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Actually Rex works for your beloved CBC .

Actually, no he doesn't.

I am sure that you will be delighted to hear then, Colpy, that this committee is being charged with exactly that — conducting a broad and national consultation with Canadians to hear, from us, what we would like to see in respect of electoral reform.

Don't confuse him with facts.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

I am sure that you will be delighted to hear then, Colpy, that this committee is being charged with exactly that — conducting a broad and national consultation with Canadians to hear, from us, what we would like to see in respect of electoral reform.

I would like a referendum.

Not something jammed down our throats to hedge a Liberal stranglehold on majority.

Put it to the people.

Rex works for the CPC and Oil companies, so naturally he would say something that dumb.

Wow, time to change the tinfoil.

 

[Colpy]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

I am sure that you will be delighted to hear then, Colpy, that this committee is being charged with exactly that — conducting a broad and national consultation with Canadians to hear, from us, what we would like to see in respect of electoral reform.

Oh bull****.

You are smart enough to know much better than that.

We'll even set aside for a moment the idiotic idea that Canadians are going to engage with this over the summer, and that the NDP and Conservatives are going to do the Liberals' dirty work by holding "consultations"..........and go straight to the fact the Liberals are not providing enough time, even if they were serious about "consultations".......and they aren't.

There is one way to consult with actual Canadians........you know, the kind with real jobs, not the political junkies, the talking heads, or the party hacks......and that is at the ballot box.

Anything else is unethical.

That simple.

Rex works for the CPC and Oil companies, so naturally he would say something that dumb.

And why, pray tell, is it "dumb"?

Truth the Liberals don't like is not "dumb" by definition.

And in the polls.....oh dear:

But what sort of reform stands the best chance gaining popularity? The Abacus poll put four alternatives in front of Canadians:

• The way things are now, often called first past the post, in which the candidate with the most votes gets to be MP, and the rest get zilch.
• pure PR: vote for a party and that national vote translates into the number of seats in the House.
• mixed-member PR: vote twice, once for your riding’s MP, and again for a party, and seats in the House reflect the blend.
• ranked balloting: rank candidates from most to least preferred. If no candidate receives more than 50 per cent of the top picks, the candidate with the fewest is eliminated. If a voter’s first choice is knocked off, their vote is automatically transferred to their next highest choice. This repeats until one candidate gets a majority.

In the poll, 43 per cent picked the status quo as the system they like best, followed by 27 per cent who most liked the sound of mixed-member PR, 17 per cent who preferred pure PR, and just 14 per cent who chose ranked balloting. That certainly makes PR look way more popular than ranked balloting. Still, the status quo is the strongest entry in the field.

A new poll shows the old voting system is pretty popular

Fully 62 per cent of respondents said they were very or somewhat satisfied with the system as it stands, with 19 per cent saying they were "very satisfied." Only 25 per cent said they were dissatisfied with FPTP.

But if the Liberal government decides to go through with electoral reform, Canadians overwhelmingly agree with the opposition Conservatives that a referendum should be held.
Nearly two-thirds, or 65 per cent of Canadians, said a nationwide referendum should definitely (37 per cent) or probably (28 per cent) be held on any changes to the electoral system. Seventeen per cent said a vote in the House of Commons was probably or definitely enough.

Canadians think referendum on electoral reform needs to be held, poll says - Politics - CBC News

It is direct from the Ministry of Truth....surrender!

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Rex is just dumb.

But beyond that, Canadians don't want FPTP.

Not if we get brain dead Conservative governments in power with less than 40% of the vote.


Remember when they won last time and you were all like 'CANADA IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT'.


Man was that hilarious!

 

[Colpy]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Rex is just dumb.

But beyond that, Canadians don't want FPTP.

Not if we get brain dead Conservative governments in power with less than 40% of the vote.


Remember when they won last time and you were all like 'CANADA IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT'.


Man was that hilarious!

Yeah, because you know, most Rhodes Scholars are idiots when compared to His Holiness, Elbower of the Boob, Patron Saint of the Selfie, he of the BA in English and the BEd.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Apparently so as Rex is a dumb conservative.

 

[Colpy]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Apparently so as Rex is a dumb conservative.

LOL! That is just funny, because, my friend.............Rex is far from stupid. People attack him with many accusations. "Stupid" is not usually among them, unless the accuser has no clue what they are talking about.

How about some substance? You know, , instead of running around waving your arms in the air, crying "The sky is falling! Save poor Justin from dissenting opinion!"

Substance.

You know, like an actual argument.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

It's like Ezra Levant.

So dumb it's not even worth getting into it.


But hey, if you need facts:

Power & Politics' Ballot Box question: electoral reform - Politics - CBC News



That's, uhh, newer than your poll and 2.5x the sample size.


awkward.....

 

[Colpy]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

It's like Ezra Levant.

So dumb it's not even worth getting into it.


But hey, if you need facts:

Power & Politics' Ballot Box question: electoral reform - Politics - CBC News



That's, uhh, newer than your poll and 2.5x the sample size.


awkward.....

Holy Good Lord Man!

Do you really think an on-line poll, of CBC viewers no less, demonstrates the reality of Canadian popular opinion?

If the gov't paid attention to on-line polls, I'd be carrying my .357 Magnum legally. And I do not think that is a reflection of Canadian public opinion.

On-line polls are a complete waste of time, and the CBC viewership is twisted hard to the left, and neither has anything to do with reality.

Give your head a shake.

I said "substance"

You know, polls with an actual valid methodology would be good.........

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Calm down Colpy.

The fair and unbiased committee will gauge what folks want and if it's a referendum, then they will provide a referendum and Canadians will be able to choose whichever alternative to FPTP they want.

And if they choose ranked ballot then the Conservatives can gloat about how they forced a referendum that lead to Liberal majorities for the next 50 years.

K?

 

[DaSleeper]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

This committee is just smoke and mirrors.....If anyone thinks that the liberals really want proportional representation with a 39% win in the last election they are suffering from extreme delusion!

 

[Colpy]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Calm down Colpy.

The fair and unbiased committee will gauge what folks want and if it's a referendum, then they will provide a referendum and Canadians will be able to choose whichever alternative to FPTP they want.

And if they choose ranked ballot then the Conservatives can gloat about how they forced a referendum that lead to Liberal majorities for the next 50 years.

K?

Or they will choose FPTP, which must remain an option..........especially as it is currently the system preferred by Canadians.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

No, in all polling Canadians want a change regardless if it comes from a referendum or not.

But keep believing we will still have FPTP Colpers.

Rex will save us :lol:


“About 40 per cent of people said yes, they would be up for major reforms. About 40 per cent of people said they would be up for some reforms. And the rest of folks weren’t up for much,” said Mr. Smith. “So that’s a pretty healthy constituency of people looking for change.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...poll-suggests/article27556928/?service=mobile


And by the way, Parliament doesn't have to have a referendum if they don't want to.

And if you don't like that, I'm certain there will be another election for you to exercise a vote for the party that endorses FPTP.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

We'll even set aside for a moment the idiotic idea that Canadians are going to engage with this over the summer, and that the NDP and Conservatives are going to do the Liberals' dirty work by holding "consultations"..........and go straight to the fact the Liberals are not providing enough time, even if they were serious about "consultations".......and they aren't.

Where were you when the Conservatives proposed, and enacted, substantial changes to the Canada Elections Act without holding "consultations"? The opposition parties hold a majority on the special committee that the House is striking; it is unprecedented that a majority government would give the opposition parties a majority on a committee as important as this one, and I think that it is a sign that we can look forward to the collaborative approach that this consultation process is going to use.

There is one way to consult with actual Canadians........you know, the kind with real jobs, not the political junkies, the talking heads, or the party hacks......and that is at the ballot box.

A referendum is not the same as a consultation. A referendum does not provide a way for our elected representatives to hear the concerns, the innovative ideas, the nuances, and the actual questions and comments of the people. A consultation will do much more to advise Parliament on the wishes of the people than would a referendum ballot. Then our elected representatives can craft the details of the proposal that best realizes that feedback.

Anything else is unethical.

That simple.

Nonsense.

Parliament has changed the electoral system before, and never have we insisted that they go to a referendum to do it. We have eliminated multi-member pluralities; we have changed the requirements to vote; we have changed the way that electoral boundaries are recalculated and redistributed; all of these fundamental elements of our voting system have been altered, before, by Parliament.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Yea, Parliament could change the electoral process at a whim without any consultation if they wanted.

And as you've stated, we already did that under Helmet Douche with the unfair elections act.


But yeah. Rex fukken Murphy knows better lol

 

[PoliticalNick]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

CC Priorities 2016


Elbowgate:

Canada’s democracy to be significantly reformed:

*crickets*

When did we get a democracy? You're just as delusional about this as you are about climate change.

 

[JLM]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Yea, Parliament could change the electoral process at a whim without any consultation if they wanted.

And as you've stated, we already did that under Helmet Douche with the unfair elections act.


But yeah. Rex fukken Murphy knows better lol

The voting procedure should just be exactly the same as it was when Harper was in power. He KNEW what he was doing! "Johnny come lately" here still hasn't outgrown his three cornered pants!

 

[PoliticalNick]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Dissatisfaction with the familiar first-past-the-post — or FPTP — system seems fairly established. It distorts the relationship between votes cast and results with a winner-take-all outcome. Powerful majority governments are routinely elected with less than 40 per cent of the popular vote. Small parties such as the Greens are often penalized badly or shut out entirely. Many complain that FPTP creates wasted votes and, as a result, has encouraged political disaffection, public disengagement and declining voter participation.

Scott Reid on why Scott Reid is wrong on democratic reform | Ottawa Citizen

Not to mention all the candidates are hand-picked by the oligarchy. Until that fact is changed you can make all the reforms to elections you want, we will still be screwed over by a bunch of a$$holes who do NOT represent their constituents.

Nobody (with any activist intent).

That's why the flies hate me.

So you collect welfare....does fit in with you not caring about higher taxes since you don't pay any.

I am sure that you will be delighted to hear then, Colpy, that this committee is being charged with exactly that — conducting a broad and national consultation with Canadians to hear, from us, what we would like to see in respect of electoral reform.

Sure....I got a bridge for sale cheap too for all you stupid enough to believe anything govt says or that they "represent" the citizens.

I would like a referendum.

Not something jammed down our throats to hedge a Liberal stranglehold on majority.

Put it to the people.



Wow, time to change the tinfoil.

Forget elections all together. You want real reform, choose whatever number of people from the voters list in each region and send them to Ottawa to form the govt. Automatically exclude anyone that actually wants to do it on grounds of corruption and make employers hold the jobs of those sent. Just like jury duty only you sit 2 years in the house. Send 50% from each province every year to ensure a constant change. To make certain it all works how it's supposed to we make it illegal to form a party and illegal to vote against the wishes of the constituents you represent. Problem solved, you now have an honest representative body beholden only to the citizens.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: BREAKING: Liberals agree to NDP proposal on Electoral Reform

Forget elections all together. You want real reform, choose whatever number of people from the voters list in each region and send them to Ottawa to form the govt. Automatically exclude anyone that actually wants to do it on grounds of corruption and make employers hold the jobs of those sent. Just like jury duty only you sit 2 years in the house. Send 50% from each province every year to ensure a constant change. To make certain it all works how it's supposed to we make it illegal to form a party and illegal to vote against the wishes of the constituents you represent. Problem solved, you now have an honest representative body beholden only to the citizens.

Why have a representative democracy at all, if you want the said representatives to be shackled to vote only as aligned with the wishes of their constituents? A big part of governing is, absolutely, ensuring that the opinions of the people are taken into account; however, governing is also about making the best possible decision in the interests of the country, and these concepts are not always in perfect alignment with one another.