The relation between the wrong-doing and misguidance

selfsame

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And then, according to your explanations, in his "Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Most Kind, Most Compassionate..." way, he directs them into doing even more wrong so he can condemn them to an eternity of conscious torment in fire. But that's not wronging them? You don't see the contradiction in that, that this is not gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate behaviour?

You don't want to understand.

The explanation:

People divides into two categories:

one category work righteousness and are guided. They responded to the word of God's messenger (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or others in their time) ... this category: He gives to them more guidance, more faith and belief, and guide them to do more righteousness and in the Next Life will reward them in Paradise in heaven.

The other category: the hard-hearted: they do every evil act and transgression, and they did not respond to God's messenger, but they oppose him ... this category He will give them more money and position and they increase in their contumacy and tyranny and increase in sins, so He will punish them in Hell.

So God does not wrong anyone: He will not punish anyone more than he deserves according to his evil work and his idolatry and atheism; nor will God give him a reward less than he deserves according to his righteous acts.

This is about the hypocrites (those who pretend to be believers, but truly they are disbelievers) in the Quran 2: 14-16, which mean:

{ 14. And when they meet those who believe, they say: 'We believe [as do you believe]';
but when they are alone with their devils
e,
they say: 'Surely, we are with you
f;
we are –merely – mocking [the believers.
g]'

15. God [Himself] does mock them [by postponing their punishment] h,
offering them [wealth] to let them wander on blindly with their arrogance.
i

16. Such are they who exchange error instead of guidance j,
so their commerce does not prosper, neither are they guided
k.
.....................................................................

e Who deceive and guide them to the disbelief and misguidance.

f i.e. we follow you in fact, and we are not with the believers.

g when we said to them: "We believe".

h And He does not hasten to bring it on them in this life of the World

i Like the blind who does not see the reality of things.

j Because they exchanged Paradise for Fire, and dignity for disgrace.

k To any heavenly religion, but they are bewildered and misguided.

===========================================================================

Moreover, God - be glorified - said in the Quran 19: 75-76, which means:

75. Say: "whosoever is in error d, [God] Most Gracious may increase his wealth.
Until when they see that which they were threatened with, whether it be punishment
e [in the life of the World], or the Hour [of death],
they will know then who is worst in position [above the other party], and is weakest of host [: the believers or the disbelievers.
f]"

76. Those who are guided g – God increases them in more guidance [according to their expenditure out of their wealth in the way of God]h, and even the righteous [deeds] that remain [to the Next Life] i are far better j with your Lord [O man] in respect of reward, and far better for [their] return to Us [in the Next Life.]
...................................................................

d Away from the truth, and from following it.

e With disease, drought or inflictions.

f This is a threatening to them with the punishment.

g By the plain ayat of the Quran.

h i.e. because of their expenditure on the poor and the weak.

i i.e. the righteous work will remain preserved to them with God, until they will go to the ether world to find that before them.

j Than the wealth and ornament of the World is.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

Wow. If that's true, you'd better be very afraid of me ...

That is because you barred the one who said: that he or she thought God is cruel (Glory be to God!), and you said to him: this is untrue.

It would be nice if there were a next life, I'd like to see my parents again, and a few other people I've loved who have died, but what I'd like to be true and what's actually true don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. Whether there should or shouldn't be a next life is a question that attempts to impose a human wish on reality, and it's really quite meaningless. What matters is whether there is or isn't a next life, and what I or anybody else wishes to be true will have no effect on that.

The Next Life is logical and should be, or else everything in existence is purposeless and aimless, which is not correct; for we see there is wisdom behind every process and everything in existence.
Moreover, it is to fulfill justice among people: to judge for the wronged one against the wronging one, or else all the transgressor and the oppressed will be equal in outcome.
We see also many observations with phases: creation in the womb as fetus for 9 months, then delivery to the life of the World when man will live for his life span and grow from child, to young then to elderly then will die. So man has not been created to remain in the womb, as has he not been created to remain in the life of the World.
And in fact, the material world has been created to be as a mould for the Next Spiritual World, and man has been created for the Next Spiritual Everlasting Life.
The believer believes in God and in the Next Life following death, while the disbeliever does not believe in God and the Next Life.
So man, and particularly the disbeliever, try to evade the thinking about the Next Life, because there he will lose on account of his disbelief and much many sins and crimes.

That's almost right, but it's phrased in a way that misrepresents how science works. What any scientific man (or woman) would say is that there's no good evidence indicating there's a next life, so the claim that there is a next life does not deserve to be accepted as correct. No man (or woman) of science would dogmatically state that there isn't a next life, or at least they shouldn't if they're intellectually honest, only that the evidence doesn't indicate there is.

The Next Life is spiritual not material, so it is not measured by kilograms of centimeters; it is deduced by logic and faith, in addition there are many logical proofs and manifestations about the Next Life.
E.g. many men died and then returned to life again and they described many things which they faced there.
And some people went to the Next Life and returned again, like Abu abd-Allah in his trip in the spirit world which lasted for about one hour, and like many other men.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/man/index.htm#A_Story_of_Fainting_
 

selfsame

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In fact, there are so many proofs of the Next Life, but atheists and blasphemers twisted the truth into misinterpretation of such manifestations and evidences.
And they call it Near Death Experience, while in fact they are true observations indicating the Next Life.
Therefore, the atheist and disbeliever .. this is an example of the belief and non-belief so that even if the disbeliever sees the gates of heaven opened and the angels ascending through them, they will say: our sights have been deluded and this is only a magic.

Quran 15: 14-15, which mean:
{ 14. And even if We opened before their [eyes] a gate of heaven and the [angels] continued ascending [to heaven] through it. d

15. They would only say: "Our eye-sight has been confounded e; and in fact we have been bewitched [by Mohammed.]"}
.........................................................................

d The meaning: Such sinners, just mentioned, would not believe even if We opened for them a gate of heaven and the angels started – before their eyes to ascend and descend with the revelation to you, these sinners would not believe in you, but they would only say:

e i.e. our eye-sight has been covered by an illusionary cover, and the ascending and descending of the angels to Mohammed, which we are seeing, is only some illusion and magical imagination with which Mohammed has bewitched us.

===============================================================


The belief in the Next Life is an essential part of the belief or faith.
In fact, God gave Satan an opportunity to suggest to people ... for the purpose to know who of them believe in the Next Life so that he avoids the sins and the disobedience.

As in the Quran 34: 21, which means:
{21. Yet [Iblies or Satan] had no authority over them y, but only that We would know [and distinguish] the one believing in the Next Life from the one doubting about it z; surely your Lord [O Mohammed] is All-Observing of everything a a.}
.......................................................................

y To compel them to disbelief, but only [he deceived them] with his suggestions. And We in fact did not leave them to him, but only that We …

z So that We may reward the believer according to his belief and punish the doubting one according to his disbelief and disobedience.

a a So that He does not miss any of their acts and conditions.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
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selfsame

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So believers believe in God and the Next Life, while disbelievers do not believe in God as One without associate and they do not believe in the Next Life:
Quran 2: 4, which means:
{And who believe in
[the Quran and the statements of the Quran] that are revealed to you [Mohammed],
and [in the heavenly scripture] that was revealed [to the prophets] before you,
and are certain of the Next Life
f. }
.............................................................

f i.e. They are certain about the spirit-world, the reward and requital.

While about those who deny the Next Life:
Quran 23: 74, which means:
{And surely those [associaters] who believe not in the Next Life are deviating from the [straight] way d.}
..............................................................

d i.e. are deviating from the way of the truth. And they are away from the truth.
 
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EagleSmack

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selfsame

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huh?
Ummm... is that a pink flag to the right? lmao![/QUOTE]

This is something that you do not understand .. it is a local tribal flag.

[CENTER][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CYslBapzZ0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CYslBapzZ0[/URL][/CENTER]
 

MHz

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There it is again in the top pic, the white flag and some strips of blue sky, what do you 'see'?

The 2nd pic has a bloodstained flag, what the hell would that mean?
and a flag that looks like the bruise, that might be a place of healing rather than destruction.
What do you see?
 

Ron in Regina

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Such words are clear examples of the assertions of the atheist.

=================================================



Many times before, I said: if my words are not clear: tell me to explain more, but you kept repeating the same objections: not trying to understand: but only to object.



I didn't say such thing, but you are ignorant and insisting on your ignorance.

OK blowhard. What makes you think (yeah, I know, as according to
whats his pickle) that those you brand as Atheists are indeed Atheists
unless they expressly state so? Just 'cuz someone doesn't swallow
your mindset as according to whatever the guy's name is that does
your thinking for you says......doesn't automatically make them an
Atheist.

Most of the time the words you 'copy & paste' are more than unclear,
and often I've asked you to put on your big-boy pants and use your
own words......but you only insult others further, and then 'copy
and paste' more of the same shtick of Billy van Hill Ali Something or
another.

If you are incapable of independent thought, why are you coming to
play in the sandbox of debate and discussion? Seriously....why?
Why bother?

If you're here to discuss & debate, Great! But you don't, and anyone
who tries to engage you in debate, or open other trains of thought &
questioning is wrong, and thus an atheist, or ignorant, or is going to
suffer volcano's and whatever in your afterlife. That's not debate, &
that is why you receive back the reactions you do by most people
here that are capable of independent thought.

Selfsame, I'm no more of an atheist than you are, but I question,
almost everything. Go ahead and call me an Atheist, or Satan or
a Satanic Atheist if that's what your spoon fed programming
dictates, but know that you're only going to gain the respect that
any puppet deserves, which is little to none. My words are my
words, as interpreted by nobody but myself.

What does Ali Babba Billy Muhammud Interpreter Dude have to
say in response to that?
 

JLM

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OK blowhard. What makes you think (yeah, I know, as according to
whats his pickle) that those you brand as Atheists are indeed Atheists
unless they expressly state so? Just 'cuz someone doesn't swallow
your mindset as according to whatever the guy's name is that does
your thinking for you says......doesn't automatically make them an
Atheist.

Most of the time the words you 'copy & paste' are more than unclear,
and often I've asked you to put on your big-boy pants and use your
own words......but you only insult others further, and then 'copy
and paste' more of the same shtick of Billy van Hill Ali Something or
another.

If you are incapable of independent thought, why are you coming to
play in the sandbox of debate and discussion? Seriously....why?
Why bother?

If you're here to discuss & debate, Great! But you don't, and anyone
who tries to engage you in debate, or open other trains of thought &
questioning is wrong, and thus an atheist, or ignorant, or is going to
suffer volcano's and whatever in your afterlife. That's not debate, &
that is why you receive back the reactions you do by most people
here that are capable of independent thought.

Selfsame, I'm no more of an atheist than you are, but I question,
almost everything. Go ahead and call me an Atheist, or Satan or
a Satanic Atheist if that's what your spoon fed programming
dictates, but know that you're only going to gain the respect that
any puppet deserves, which is little to none. My words are my
words, as interpreted by nobody but myself.

What does Ali Babba Billy Muhammud Interpreter Dude have to
say in response to that?


Perfect response, Ron. You must have the patience of Job- my response would likely have been two words comprised of 7 letters! :) :) (and not necessarily "get lost")
 

Jinentonix

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Perfect response, Ron. You must have the patience of Job- my response would likely have been two words comprised of 7 letters! :) :) (and not necessarily "get lost")
Get bent? :lol:

OK blowhard. What makes you think (yeah, I know, as according to
whats his pickle) that those you brand as Atheists are indeed Atheists
unless they expressly state so? Just 'cuz someone doesn't swallow
your mindset as according to whatever the guy's name is that does
your thinking for you says......doesn't automatically make them an
Atheist.

Most of the time the words you 'copy & paste' are more than unclear,
and often I've asked you to put on your big-boy pants and use your
own words......but you only insult others further, and then 'copy
and paste' more of the same shtick of Billy van Hill Ali Something or
another.

If you are incapable of independent thought, why are you coming to
play in the sandbox of debate and discussion? Seriously....why?
Why bother?

If you're here to discuss & debate, Great! But you don't, and anyone
who tries to engage you in debate, or open other trains of thought &
questioning is wrong, and thus an atheist, or ignorant, or is going to
suffer volcano's and whatever in your afterlife. That's not debate, &
that is why you receive back the reactions you do by most people
here that are capable of independent thought.

Selfsame, I'm no more of an atheist than you are, but I question,
almost everything. Go ahead and call me an Atheist, or Satan or
a Satanic Atheist if that's what your spoon fed programming
dictates, but know that you're only going to gain the respect that
any puppet deserves, which is little to none. My words are my
words, as interpreted by nobody but myself.

What does Ali Babba Billy Muhammud Interpreter Dude have to
say in response to that?
The thing is Ron, he's not here to debate, he's here to proselytize. He's not the least bit interested in anyone's opinion that runs contrary to the dogma that he's vomiting up. That's how it is with ideologues, religious or political. And in the case of Islam, it's both.
Islam means "submission". If Islam really were "the religion of peace", it would be called "Salam".
 

MHz

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Ge:14:18:
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine:
and he was the priest of the most high God.

Psalms:76:2:
In Salem also is his tabernacle,
and his dwelling place in Zion.

Heb:5:6:
As he saith also in another place,
Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb:5:10:
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
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Ge:14:18:
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine:
and he was the priest of the most high God.

Psalms:76:2:
In Salem also is his tabernacle,
and his dwelling place in Zion.

Heb:5:6:
As he saith also in another place,
Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb:5:10:
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Spare me the Bible bullsh*t. If more Christians remembered the Christ part of their religion instead of living in the Old Testament, there'd be a LOT fewer a$$holes in the world.
And ya know, for someone who despises "Zionist Jews" as much as you do, you sure do love quoting their scripture. :lol:
 

Ludlow

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wherever i sit down my ars
Spare me the Bible bullsh*t. If more Christians remembered the Christ part of their religion instead of living in the Old Testament, there'd be a LOT fewer a$$holes in the world.
And ya know, for someone who despises "Zionist Jews" as much as you do, you sure do love quoting their scripture. :lol:
Well said. And Jesus never wrote a thing.