“Origin of the Universe Riddle Solved- and,er, It Wasn’t God”

[coldstream]

Greek Mythology Creation Story.


In the beginning there was only Chaos, an empty void. But somehow this enormous vacancy gave birth to Gaea, the earth, to Tartarus, the great region beneath the earth, and to Eros, the shining god of love and attraction. Chaos also bore Erebus, the darkness of the netherworld, and Night, the darkness over the earth. Then Erebus slept with Night, who gave birth to Ether, the heavenly light, and to Day, the earthly light. Later Night alone produced such beings as Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, and a long list of other atrocities that steal upon men in darkness.

It seems we've come full circle. Nothingness couples with chaos and produces everything. It just shows how impoverished and nonsensical science becomes when it 'frees' itself from God.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

But it works. And it works whether you believe in it or not.

 

[Glacier]

Now you're stretching it, you're suggesting for example Napoleon started his wars because God told him to? Sure he may have been religious but to extrapolate that's the reason he went to war is pushing the envelope of historical facts.

Bar Sinister is also cherry picking. No mention of Pol Pot, the Kims, or Stalin. Also, as you've rightly pointed out, being religious (or being an atheist or being a Canadian) does not mean that this is what caused the war that you started. In most instances it's things like money and power that drives wars.

Stand to Reason | Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars?

 

[bluebyrd35]

At this rate you could inspire a reply that could fill a book in just a few posts. The actual mission was that Job would curse God rather than just pile praise on him. Job never cursed God as he would have known it was not God taking those things away that He had given to Job as a reward for being a 'fair man'. The story also has meaning for the time the 5th and 6th trumps exist as that is when Satan is just as powerful in the affairs of people. The authority to send 1/3 of the living to the grave is part of that and a prophecy exists that Satan can temp believers for a few days and then do nothing more (I assume). Satan has the ability to give rewards to those that worship him rather than God but they end up being things that cannot interact with you and protect you from harm. The temptations he offered Jesus would be the rewards that Satan, as king of the earth, could offer. Money to be part of the 'elite' seems to be the card he plays most often. Food (necessities of life in abundance) authority over other men and protection from physical injuries (but not old-age) are what he tempted Jesus with and the mark of the Beast includes the right to run a business as a means of getting wealthy (middle-man).


Satan took the things away and it was God who put the limits on what damage Satan could do. Damage because the flaw in angelic beings is the part God gave to men that made it possible for them to have dominion over somebody else and have it turn out to be a good thing every time. Satan would also have been behind the design before the flood to exterminate 5 fingered people because when they were gone there would be no seed of Eve to fulfill any part of Ge:3:15. Job believed that God was not behind the events that were clear punishments, when he tried to explain to his friends who God was he was chastised by God for attempting to do things that were beyond his ability, such as explain who God is and what sort of powers he can manifest to help or hurt a person.
What Job ended up with before he died is something he will have again after he goes to the grave so he would be expecting both groups to be there down to live-stalk when the sleep of death was lifted from all of them.


Which would mean he did not believe that God was behind the 'misfortunes'.


Emotions are the driving force that allowed Adam to be a perfect shepherd to the flesh he was given dominion over. In the fiery lake Satan and the other fallen angels will experience thirst, hunger and sorrow, welcome to emotional fallen angels if you can picture that.

The people singled out in Scripture that end up having something bad happen to them as a sign to others are given extra rewards for enduring more than the average person. Moses and Pharaoh and his first born will be around for the 1,000 year reign as an example.


By 'some' you mean 2x right?


When a person is brought back from the grave they cannot go back to the grave as that would be the fiery lake rather than the sleep Job:14 promotes.


What is the moral of the story then? Has anybody escaped death? Does it reinforce that the land of the 'real enemy' is death rather than various tribulation that are part of an imperfect earth?


Make it 30 (45 in my case) and I would agree with you, even then there is the right message and a flawed version.

A story about a bet between a God and an Angel he created at human expense, (Also a species he created) is ludicrous in the extreme!! Good grief even a lowly human (on the godly scale) would not consider betting with one child how much punishment he could reign down on another before hatred moved in. Have some sense!! A creator as exquisite, (if the universes and what they hold are creations and not accidents) cannot possibly be as small-minded and as petty as how it/he/she is portrayed in the book of Job!!

As far as I am concerned, it is no good analyzing the mad writings of a tribal barbarian in order to understand such a Being.

 

[Glacier]

A story about a bet between a God and an Angel he created at human expense, (Also a species he created) is ludicrous in the extreme!! Good grief even a lowly human (on the godly scale) would not consider betting with one child how much punishment he could reign down on another before hatred moved in. Have some sense!! A creator as exquisite, (if the universes and what they hold are creations and not accidents) cannot possibly be as small-minded and as petty as how it/he/she is portrayed in the book of Job!!

As far as I am concerned, it is no good analyzing the mad writings of a tribal barbarian in order to understand such a Being.

 

[MHz]

Greek Mythology Creation Story.


In the beginning there was only Chaos, an empty void. But somehow this enormous vacancy gave birth to Gaea, the earth, to Tartarus, the great region beneath the earth, and to Eros, the shining god of love and attraction. Chaos also bore Erebus, the darkness of the netherworld, and Night, the darkness over the earth. Then Erebus slept with Night, who gave birth to Ether, the heavenly light, and to Day, the earthly light. Later Night alone produced such beings as Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, and a long list of other atrocities that steal upon men in darkness.

It seems we've come full circle. Nothingness couples with chaos and produces everything. It just shows how impoverished and nonsensical science becomes when it 'frees' itself from God.

It gets better. Zeus is supposed to make a 'come-back' in the near future and the God of the OT will dispatch him to where ever and then rule the earth through his selected 'rulers'. (no matter how ill equipped they are for the task, unless Moses and his fellow Tribesman are present and taking questions)

A creator as exquisite, (if the universes and what they hold are creations and not accidents) cannot possibly be as small-minded and as petty as how it/he/she is portrayed in the book of Job!!

Beings of the Heaven and of the Earth were made slightly less that 'perfect'. Angels were given the knowledge of good and evil and since heave existed (13B years works okay) they have learned how to 'control' the 'innate bodies in it', men lacked the knowledge of good and evil but they had the qualities that angels lacked, the emotions that allowed them to be good shepherds to the flesh they had dominion over. That is why the era before the flood turned our so 'wrong' and that same for of reality will return to the earth before the return happens. A few men witness the Beast from the Pit and the False Prophet (4 fallen angels) are sent to the fiery lake. These people are tested 1,000 years later and if they are not perfect before God they would also be sent to the same fiery lake as Satan and the remaining fallen angels are sent to at that time. The witness is something that will be taught in the perfected earth that follows, men will have dominion and knowledge in the place that is called the new earth, new because the parts that make this earth imperfect are done away with. The universe is the new earth because the angelic beings that were there when Satan is sent to the fiery lake go to the 3rd heaven where their flaws have been removed. That would make them capable of doing what was tried on earth only this time they would be perfect parents, just like God and the Holy Spirit are perfect parents to Christ, their one and only child. (Alpha) and it was Christ's parents that created this heaven and earth and it is in the lowest portion that Christ found the 'created being' that He will take to be His wife for eternity. (Mary of Bethany aka the beloved disciple)

Job is an expansion of what went before the flood and that is how the 'sons of God' ruled over men with the exception that killing was allowed and whatever methods that would lead to the extinction of people like Noah and his wife and sons would be employed. That is why God caused the flood, to stop that from happening as the the 'seed of Eve' could never be born to fulfill the Ge:3:15 prophecy. Those same methods will be how the Nations act while under the control of the Beast for the 42 months that it is allowed to return for prior to the coming of Christ.

 

[darkbeaver]

Greek Mythology Creation Story.


In the beginning there was only Chaos, an empty void. But somehow this enormous vacancy gave birth to Gaea, the earth, to Tartarus, the great region beneath the earth, and to Eros, the shining god of love and attraction. Chaos also bore Erebus, the darkness of the netherworld, and Night, the darkness over the earth. Then Erebus slept with Night, who gave birth to Ether, the heavenly light, and to Day, the earthly light. Later Night alone produced such beings as Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, Dreams, Nemesis, and a long list of other atrocities that steal upon men in darkness.

It seems we've come full circle. Nothingness couples with chaos and produces everything. It just shows how impoverished and nonsensical science becomes when it 'frees' itself from God.

Those few sentences would be universal in a universe made of and by light out the soulless and therefore dark matter. I think I'll learn to embroider and make me a pillow. Very pleasent little read, thankyou.

All the atrocities steal in on us only when we become materialists.

Just because the truth comes past a person occasionally that doesn't mean they will recognize it as such. The Bible sets the bar for who is the one that has full authority over all things, that would be the 'God' of Ge:1:1.

2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Re:20:11:
And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.1Jo:5:7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word,
and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.Heb:12:22:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb:12:23:
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The above is a pretty good indication of where God resides and that is one level above where angelic beings would have met to talk about Job (and other things). Angelic beings enter that 3rd heaven as that is the new heaven that 2/3 of them will enter at the same time the Great White Throne event takes place.

Job:1:6:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them.
Job:1:7:
And the LORD said unto Satan,
Whence comest thou?
Then Satan answered the LORD,
and said,
From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.

For the record, it isn't me that has trouble admitting when I have something in error and new facts show that is so. So far you haven't shown any alternatives to put my theory into the 'error' realm.

Joh:18:36:
Jesus answered,
My kingdom is not of this world:
if my kingdom were of this world,
then would my servants fight,
that I should not be delivered to the Jews:
but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Re:11:15:
And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Quite right MHZ, the soul will not be plumbed by scientists.

 

[MHz]

If we can all move mountains and trees with just voice commands it will make 'gardening' a lot easier.

 

[darkbeaver]

i DON'T EVEN HAVE TO GET OFF THE COUCH TO DO THAT.

 

[Twila]

this was posted in a chat group on facebook. Thoughts?

 

[darkbeaver]

The Lord is Plasma.

 

[Twila]

The Lord is Plasma.

ahh, like Cthulhu...cool.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

this was posted in a chat group on facebook. Thoughts?

My thought: warm fuzzy mystic New Age BS, and utterly false, to the extent that it makes any sense at all. Woolly minded obfuscation worthy of Deepak Chopra.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Now you're stretching it, you're suggesting for example Napoleon started his wars because God told him to? Sure he may have been religious but to extrapolate that's the reason he went to war is pushing the envelope of historical facts.

I hope you are not deliberately missing the point. I was simply pointing out the fact that most wars have not been started by atheists. In fact it is precisely the opposite. Most mass murderers of the past believed in one god or another.

Bar Sinister is also cherry picking. No mention of Pol Pot, the Kims, or Stalin. Also, as you've rightly pointed out, being religious (or being an atheist or being a Canadian) does not mean that this is what caused the war that you started. In most instances it's things like money and power that drives wars.

Stand to Reason | Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars?

No, Blackleaf was cherry picking. He picked data from an analysis of warfare that ignored the fact that the participants most wars were religious. As you point out he also ignored other motives for war like greed and racism.

 

[bluebyrd35]

So this mad person's supposed poetic imagination is used as FACT ?? Unfortunately, even in this time period, 2000 plus years later, there are persons who quote this totally made up tale of injustice to try and explain God's notion of justice???

By the way when has God shown up to repair the injustices that have befallen innocent people???? I am sorry but that analysis of the book of Job is the believers' justification for injustice!!

Simply stated it is crap.

 

[eh1eh]

Funny how a less than substantive article on a quack site can make for a hot topic.

 

[bluebyrd35]

Funny how a less than substantive article on a quack site can make for a hot topic.

True, Imagine that; those "less than substantive articles" first being allowed on the "quack site" and then, my word, allows any nutter to freely express their opinion in response.

 

[Ludlow]

My thought: warm fuzzy mystic New Age BS, and utterly false, to the extent that it makes any sense at all. Woolly minded obfuscation worthy of Deepak Chopra.

I guess everyone has their own comfort zone. As long as they don't try and ram it down everyone else's throat what harm is there?

 

[selfsame]

God is the absolute truth. How can anyone deny the Creator? How can everything in the universe be there without any Creator?
How can such minds think? Certainly they are in a manifest error: the atheists who deny the Creator; and they are compelled to His decree in this Life of the World and in the Next Life: willingly or loath.

How can any object without One Who moves it?
Don't you see that everything is created with wisdom and for a wise purpose?
Don't you realize that the material beings die, and there should be the Next Life?

Quran 52: 35-37, which mean:
[Then God – be glorified – argued against atheists, and He said:]
35. Or were they created without there being anything e ? Or were they themselves the creators f ?

36. Or did they themselves create the heavens and the earth? g No, [they didn't]; but they have not sure faith h.

37. Or do they possess the treasuries of your Lord? i
Or are they themselves the governors [of the universe j]?
.........................................................................

e I [the interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan] said that the Arabic word شيء i.e. ‘thing’ means the matter; so the meaning is:
Were the souls of these atheists formed without the material bodies, so they say: “The ether fills the space from eternity, and our souls were spontaneously formed from the ether without any Former or Creator!” [These were the Spiritualists like James Findlay the writer of the book On the Margin of the Ethereal World http://www.quran-ayat.com/retort/index.htm#Introduction_]
Yes, indeed, they were formed from the ether, but who created the bodies in which their souls were formed? Didn’t God create them and create the heavens and the earth and all their inhabitants?

f Of the material bodies.
Some atheists believe in the existence of spirits, but they say they exist from eternity without any Former or Creator of them. And that their number is limited and fixed. One of such atheists was the compiler of the book 'On the Margin of the Ethereal World'.
They say also that the spirit enters the womb to build around it a body to be a man, then it separates by death from this body to form another body. And as such it transmigrates from one body to another.
God – be glorified – said about them in the Quran 45: 24, which means:
(They say: "There is nothing but our [present] Worldly life; we die and our [children] live, and nothing but Time [factors] destroy us. "
Of that they have no knowledge, they merely conjecture.)

g It means: Or had these atheists created the matter out of which I created the heavens and the earth, and so they deny the One Who created them?
No, for it is God Who created the matter and created the heavens and the earth and all those who are therein.

h Because of their ignorance and stubbornness.

i So they offer the prophet-hood to whomever they like and please; therefore, they say: "If only this Quran was sent down to a prominent man out the two cities: Mecca and Ta’if!"

j So they do whatever they desire? No, it is neither this nor that.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[Twila]

God is the absolute truth. How can anyone deny the Creator? How can everything in the universe be there without any Creator?
How can such minds think? Certainly they are in a manifest error: the atheists who deny the Creator; and they are compelled to His decree in this Life of the World and in the Next Life: willingly or loath.

How can any object without One Who moves it?
Don't you see that everything is created with wisdom and for a wise purpose?
Don't you realize that the material beings die, and there should be the Next Life?

[

God is a place holder...maybe.

How come you don't think?