The association of others with God

[MHz]

well then you prove my point. Religion is the cause of all the evils in the world.

That wasn't a religious war it was the US being bitter about being booted out of Iran and the puppet the Shaw was a CIA installed stooge. The death in Iran from 1953-1979 was by the orders of the same CIA. Oil was the reason for that as well as all other wars in that area that claimed Muslim lives. You didn't strike me as a person who is comfortable living with denial, guess I was wrong.

Baloney. Sunni and Shia have never gotten along regardless of whether the US was even around. Muslim against Muslim is wrong regardless of the excuse and the same goes for Muslim against Christian, against gays, against any other human. Similar behavior is also just as wrong from Christians or any other humans.

Yet how long have they lived in the same area and both were still thriving until you know who came in with guns blazing and playing one side against the other. Sad to see you giving them a free pass.

The Holy Wars were Christians invading their homeland, you can hardly blame them for resisting that move. No complaints about 'the West' waging 1,000 year war and never making it a win. About time to give it up would be the sensible thing to do but then Christians were never noted for having that as part of their resume.

 

[Twila]

That wasn't a religious war it was the US being bitter about being booted out of Iran and the puppet the Shaw was a CIA installed stooge. The death in Iran from 1953-1979 was by the orders of the same CIA. Oil was the reason for that as well as all other wars in that area that claimed Muslim lives. You didn't strike me as a person who is comfortable living with denial, guess I was wrong.

Don't guess if you're wrong. Find out. Lets continue this discussion, k? Maybe I'll surprise you and we find common ground OR one or the other of us learns something new.

gov't are run by people, voted in by people. The majority of people identify with one religion or another. Their actions are governed by their beliefs in so far as that's what they'll tell you.

Why take the responsiblity away from them when bad the stuff happens? That kind of underhanded, evil, disregard for human life is being committed by the majority people or voted in by the majority of people who are of a religious faith.

You'll notice that the majority of people who profess no faith (Atheists, humanists) are not running the gov't's. They're in science trying to figure out just how the world and the universe REALLY came into being instead of trying to kill people to make money (the love of money is the root of all evil) or kill people because they don't like them because their faith is different.

 

[MHz]

Don't guess if you're wrong. Find out. Lets continue this discussion, k? Maybe I'll surprise you and we find common ground OR one or the other of us learns something new.

Which part, the US involvement in the deaths of those millions of Muslims. After Iran and Iraq the deaths were in Iraq, not only for Gulf I but the 1/2M children that died due to the sanctions after the war. Saddam went int Kuwait over slant drill rather than they wanted Kuwait for their own.

gov't are run by people, voted in by people. The majority of people identify with one religion or another. Their actions are governed by their beliefs in so far as that's what they'll tell you.

Crooked elections killed that and subversion of opposition parties. The Ukraine just had one where the ruling party outlawed many opposition groups so there was no actual competition. Easy to find articles that support that concept.

Why take the responsiblity away from them when bad the stuff happens? That kind of underhanded, evil, disregard for human life is being committed by the majority people or voted in by the majority of people who are of a religious faith.

You are forgetting that the Christian West is attacking them on their own soil. That pretty much shows who the aggressors are, if it was Muslims the battles would be in the western countries amd all Muslims would be taking part in it against a common enemy.

You'll notice that the majority of people who profess no faith (Atheists, humanists) are not running the gov't's. They're in science trying to figure out just how the world and the universe REALLY came into being instead of trying to kill people to make money (the love of money is the root of all evil) or kill people because they don't like them because their faith is different.

Science is as corrupt as anything as they want the grant money and the grant is for a conclusion that benefits the ones putting out the money rather than it being for pure science.

 

[Twila]

Which part, the US involvement in the deaths of those millions of Muslims. After Iran and Iraq the deaths were in Iraq, not only for Gulf I but the 1/2M children that died due to the sanctions after the war. Saddam went int Kuwait over slant drill rather than they wanted Kuwait for their own.

why pick any part?

Crooked elections killed that and subversion of opposition parties. The Ukraine just had one where the ruling party outlawed many opposition groups so there was no actual competition. Easy to find articles that support that concept.

the Ukraine... you're travelling all over the globe. why pick any spot on the globe over another? why bother?

You are forgetting that the Christian West is attacking them on their own soil. That pretty much shows who the aggressors are, if it was Muslims the battles would be in the western countries amd all Muslims would be taking part in it against a common enemy.

I'm not forgetting. I have no use for any religioun. That's why I think religion causes people to do horrendous things.

Science is as corrupt as anything as they want the grant money and the grant is for a conclusion that benefits the ones putting out the money rather than it being for pure science.

I don't believe Gov't scientists are working towards learning the truth or if they are they're muzzled.. Religious scientists (an oxymoron to me) definately not, or if they are they're also muzzled (history tells us they were destroyed publicly and often killed) . But individual scientists? I know many and they are working towards knowing the why's and trying to learn the truths and their reason behind it is to be famous. To make a mark. They want the respect of the scientific community and they want the fame that goes with it. Scientists become scientists because they are naturally curious and love the research, investigating, rubbing shoulds with others, they also very much like to collaborate.

It's a different world.

 

[Ludlow]

Don't guess if you're wrong. Find out. Lets continue this discussion, k? Maybe I'll surprise you and we find common ground OR one or the other of us learns something new.

gov't are run by people, voted in by people. The majority of people identify with one religion or another. Their actions are governed by their beliefs in so far as that's what they'll tell you.

Why take the responsiblity away from them when bad the stuff happens? That kind of underhanded, evil, disregard for human life is being committed by the majority people or voted in by the majority of people who are of a religious faith.

You'll notice that the majority of people who profess no faith (Atheists, humanists) are not running the gov't's. They're in science trying to figure out just how the world and the universe REALLY came into being instead of trying to kill people to make money (the love of money is the root of all evil) or kill people because they don't like them because their faith is different.

Yeah. No one can serve two masters. Always liked that one better.

 

[MHz]

I'm not forgetting. I have no use for any religioun. That's why I think religion causes people to do horrendous things.

Compared to greed for material wealth it is running a poor second.

 

[Twila]

Yeah. No one can serve two masters. Always liked that one better.

yeah. much less wordy.

 

[Ludlow]

yeah. much less wordy.

absolutely.

 

[Twila]

Compared to greed for material wealth it is running a poor second.

People do dispicable things for it. And they then justify it or get themselves absolved through religious means.

Wonder what the world would have been like if dogs were to take over?

 

[Ludlow]

I think they have

 

[Twila]

I think they have

Hmmm, k how about ferrets? We'd be having so much more fun and there'd be no such thing as theft.

 

[selfsame]

Most of people believe in God, but they associate with Him others like some prophets, the idols and statues, the stars of the sky, the Christ, saints, imams and sheikhs.

Quran 12:
{106. But most of [people] believe not in God unless they associate [others with Him.] c}
.......................................................
c It means: Most of them believe that God is their Creator and Provider, and that it is He Who revived them and He controls their death, but they associate the creatures in the worship with the Creator, so they vow to the angels, ask their needs from them and sanctify them.

Similar to this in meaning is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 29: 61, which means:
(If you [Mohammed] ask them [: the associaters]: "Who created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon?" they will say: "God [did all that.] How then are they turned away [from worshipping God to worshipping others apart from Him?])

i.e. How then are they turned away [from worshipping the Creator to worshipping the creatures?

As such, most people nowadays believe that God is their Creator, but they associate the sheikhs and imams by worshipping them together with God, so that they worship the graves of imams and sheikhs, kiss the graves and seek to be blessed by their dust and walls; they vow to them, seek their help when they stand up and sit down, and ask their needs from them, and say: “These are our intercessors before God.”

>> So you may see a Muslim build a mosque and write on its door (masjid and husseiniah), and by so doing, he associates Hussein with God.
>> Or he may vow a vowing to God, but he associates Hussein with God in his vowing, so that he says: “I vow to God, the reward is for the Hussein”, or he may vow to Hussein and associates God with his vowing.
>> Or he may associate concerning his praying, so he says: O Allah, O Mohammed, O Ali!
And by such praying, he associated two humans together with God.

Thus, you see most of people associate with God, concerning their acts.
Christians, for example, associated the Christ and his mother with God in their worshipping.

As such are the rest of sects, while all of them admit that God is their Creator.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[Ludlow]

like a broken record.

 

[Twila]

 

[davesmom]

Oh FGS! Is this thread intended to convert people to your evil religion? It reads like the rantings of your average, run-of-the-mill Muslim!
You dare to talk about God when everything you claim to know about Him came from Mohammed?
Wake up, dumbbell! Mohammed was a mortal man with all the flaws of any other human being. Why would a perfect God choose him to speak for Him?
All religious founders were mortal men with their own agendas; they knew they could promote and enforce their agendas on their followers by invoking God as the relayer of His word through them. What BS!
The only religious teacher who could be taken seriously is Jesus Christ who never sanctioned killing or abuse but advised us to love one another and treat each other kindly above all.
There has to be something inherently wrong with people who dedicate every aspect of their lives to obeying a man who preached such vengeance and hatred as Mohammed.
Jeez! Give me a break!!!!!!!

 

[Ludlow]

Oh FGS! Is this thread intended to convert people to your evil religion? It reads like the rantings of your average, run-of-the-mill Muslim!
You dare to talk about God when everything you claim to know about Him came from Mohammed?
Wake up, dumbbell! Mohammed was a mortal man with all the flaws of any other human being. Why would a perfect God choose him to speak for Him?
All religious founders were mortal men with their own agendas; they knew they could promote and enforce their agendas on their followers by invoking God as the relayer of His word through them. What BS!
The only religious teacher who could be taken seriously is Jesus Christ who never sanctioned killing or abuse but advised us to love one another and treat each other kindly above all.
There has to be something inherently wrong with people who dedicate every aspect of their lives to obeying a man who preached such vengeance and hatred as Mohammed.
Jeez! Give me a break!!!!!!!

Siddharta was pretty cool too. But Buddhism was probably more of a philosophy than a religion

 

[darkbeaver]

What about this big black rock the Muslims associate with God in Mecca? They walk arround it for hours while on pilgramage.

 

[davesmom]

Strict rules are to the advantage of man, and the Islam religion is moderate: not like the strictness of Judaism neither like the over-indulgence of Christianity.

I don't hear much about Jews and Christians stoning people to death and beheading them. In fact Jews and Christians don't kill unless they are attacked by radicals who want the whole world to capitulate to their beliefs.

 

[darkbeaver]

Oh FGS! Is this thread intended to convert people to your evil religion? It reads like the rantings of your average, run-of-the-mill Muslim!
You dare to talk about God when everything you claim to know about Him came from Mohammed?
Wake up, dumbbell! Mohammed was a mortal man with all the flaws of any other human being. Why would a perfect God choose him to speak for Him?
All religious founders were mortal men with their own agendas; they knew they could promote and enforce their agendas on their followers by invoking God as the relayer of His word through them. What BS!
The only religious teacher who could be taken seriously is Jesus Christ who never sanctioned killing or abuse but advised us to love one another and treat each other kindly above all.
There has to be something inherently wrong with people who dedicate every aspect of their lives to obeying a man who preached such vengeance and hatred as Mohammed.
Jeez! Give me a break!!!!!!!

He's paid by some western anti-Islamic organization.

 

[davesmom]

He's paid by some western anti-Islamic organization.

"He" who?