The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

[PoliticalNick]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Mixed Member Proportional Representation is the way to go.

If we apportion seats based on GDP it would be more fair. Then those paying the bills would have more sway and input.

 

[WLDB]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Sure, the Liberals only won 40% but the Greens and NDP also have electoral reform in their platforms. That brings it up to 70% on this particular issue. I doubt any major change will happen but he better at least try. I'll take just about anything over first past the post.

BC has to get ON and QC on board if it wants to spit in the Pacific Ocean or whatever even though ON or QC have dickall to do with the Pacific.. Get the idea?

Kind of goes with being in one country.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Kind of goes with being in one country.

.... with a strong central government controlled by a couple provinces that could care less about the RoC. Exactly.

 

[WLDB]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

I am tired of those who want to have endless bickering through
a system that allows the whole barnyard to have a say even when
the majority of our creatures have already spoken with a ballot as
to where they want to go.
Everyone gets there say they go vote and the winner wins its that
simple.

Yes people did have their say with their ballots. And 70% of them voted for parties with electoral reform in their platforms. So they should get on it.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Confederation should have been about regions rather than provinces. And less fed gov't powerand more regional gov't power.

 

[WLDB]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

.... with a strong central government controlled by a couple provinces that could care less about the RoC. Exactly.

That tends to alternate. Up until last week the west was by and large the one in control. That will no doubt happen again at some point. As more people go there the more seats they'll get and the more political power.

Confederation should have been about regions rather than provinces. And less fed gov't powerand more regional gov't power.

Well at the time they looked to the south and saw what a weak federal government and powerful state governments led to. Didnt look like a great model at the time.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

ON, 121 seats in HoC
QC, 78 seats
BC, 42 seats
AB, 34 seats
etc etc

BC has to get ON and QC on board if it wants to spit in the Pacific Ocean or whatever even though ON or QC have dickall to do with the Pacific.. Get the idea?

So, what do you consider to be fair?

Qc population= 8.2 million
BC population= 4.6 million
Ab population= 4.1 million
On population= 13.7 million

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&id=510005

So, Alberta and BC have a combined population of 8.7 with 76 seats and Quebec has 8.2 and 78 seats. It is slightly out of balance by what? say 4 seats tops.


By the way, if the First Past the Post is replaced by some sort of Rep by Pop system, the West loses leverage.

 

[captain morgan]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

That tends to alternate. Up until last week the west was by and large the one in control. That will no doubt happen again at some point. As more people go there the more seats they'll get and the more political power.

The oil producing provinces were the economic engine, but that's about it... No control, just the national ATM machine

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

That tends to alternate. Up until last week the west was by and large the one in control. That will no doubt happen again at some point.

When was the last time someone from the west got into the PM chair? The only reason for any control the west has in parliament is because of BC/AB oil and natgas. After fishing fell down, how much attention did Ottawa pay to the maritimes? Little to none. It was the "here's a little cash for you, now go away and don't bug us" thing.

As more people go there the more seats they'll get and the more political power.

and that equality will happen in a millennium or so. :roll:

Well at the time they looked to the south and saw what a weak federal government and powerful state governments led to. Didnt look like a great model at the time.

After escaping Europe where huge powerful central governments were the fad.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Look

The oil producing provinces were the economic engine, but that's about it... No control, just the national ATM machine

So, Albertans are just plain worth more and should therefore be given more power than other Canadians eh?

Stats are a couple of years old by here is the relative value of each major sector measured as apercntahpge of GDP

The Canadian economy in 2012, composed of the industries below, had a relative weighting by value of GDP:[29]

12.34 Real estate and rental and leasing
10.86 Manufacturing
07.96 Mining quarrying and oil or gas extraction
07.03 Health care and social assistance
06.90 Public administration
06.55 Finance and insurance
05.41 Wholesale trade
05.41 Retail trade
05.38 Educational services
05.21 Professional scientific and technical services
04.20 Transportation and warehousing
03.31 Information and cultural industries
02.58 Administrative and support, waste management and remediation services
02.46 Utilities
02.10 Accommodation and food services
02.04 Other services (except public administration)
01.59 Agriculture forestry fishing and hunting
00.76 Management of companies and enterprises
00.75 Arts entertainment and recreation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada

It may seem like everything is oil extraction when you are in the middle of it but it is not.

Alberta as an "ATM machine" is not happening this year. You may even end up as recipient, like Ontario did (after decades of paying megabillions more in than they got back) when a par dollar brought manufacturng screechng to a halt.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

So, what do you consider to be fair?

I would say the provinces that pay into the equalization program should have more influence than those that take from it regardless of population. "He who has the gold makes the rules"!

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

So, what do you consider to be fair?

Regional representation with small fed gov't and PR in strong provincial gov'ts.

Qc population= 8.2 million
BC population= 4.6 million
Ab population= 4.1 million
On population= 13.7 million

CANSIM - 051-0005 - Estimates of population, Canada, provinces and territories

So, Alberta and BC have a combined population of 8.7 with 76 seats and Quebec has 8.2 and 78 seats. It is slightly out of Blane by what? say 4 seats tops.


By the way, if the First Past the Post is replaced by some sort of Rep by Pop system, the West loses leverage.

We ARE rep by pop still for the most part even though ECan fiddles with boundaries now and then.

 

[captain morgan]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

So, Albertans are just plain worth more and should therefore be given more power than other Canadians eh?

Only a full-on tool would come up with that kind of interpretation.

Fact is this champ... You gotta pay to play and if/when the brakes are put on the various resource sectors, the investment will slow, production will drop and the consequent taxes will dry up.

This will be evident in the next couple of years via the heavy reduction in equalization payments... Those jurisdictions will feel the pinch pretty hard

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

I would say the provinces that pay into the equalization program should have more influence than those that take from it regardless of population. "He who has the gold makes the rules"!

I would think it should be a federal mandate to do its best to make sure ALL regions of the country are prosperous and NOT ignore any particular region for being a bit behind the rest.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Regional representation with small fed gov't and PR in strong provincial gov'ts.

We ARE rep by pop still for the most part even though ECan fiddles with boundaries now and then.

I don't know what you mean by "fiddling with the boundaries" but this region around me bears the brunt of immigration more than any other ( yes, much larger than Van) and we add well over one million bodies per decades here. Should we be voting in ridings two, three times largr than yours because Ontario received more transfer payments than they contributed for what, five whole years?

I would think it should be a federal mandate to do its best to make sure ALL regions of the country are prosperous and NOT ignore any particular region for being a bit behind the rest.

Ontario almost always pays in more than they receive. It has changed only for the last few years and it will likely be back to normal soon with a dollar value advantageous to trade. Before oil got going, the industrial East subsidized the agricultural West for a half century.

So what about a place like Newfondland? They were a net recipient for decades, have been a major contributor for the same period that Ontario went into the negative. This year, they will need assistance this year. (Alberta might if this goes on too long) Do we then withdraw political power from Newfoundland and Alberta until their economies recover, give it to Ontario?

Only a full-on tool would come up with that kind of interpretation.

Fact is this champ... You gotta pay to play and if/when the brakes are put on the various resource sectors, the investment will slow, production will drop and the consequent taxes will dry up.

This will be evident in the next couple of years via the heavy reduction in equalization payments... Those jurisdictions will feel the pinch pretty hard

Actually no, because as your economy slumps, ours is growing, again.



"Champ". (Do you actually talk to people like that? Were you raised by wolves?)

I would say the provinces that pay into the equalization program should have more influence than those that take from it regardless of population. "He who has the gold makes the rules"!

Are you prepared to lose your vote in a year or two? Petroleum $$ might be low for years.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

I don't know what you mean by "fiddling with the boundaries" but this region around me bears the brunt of immigration more than any other ( yes, much larger than Van) and we add well over one million bodies per decades here. Should we be voting in ridings two, three times largr than yours because Ontario received more transfer payments than they contributed for what, five whole years?

Southern British Columbia (Map 2) | Maps Corner | Elections Canada Online <---- those boundaries. I do not understand your question.

Ontario almost always pays in more than they receive.

Really? Do you have a good source for that claim?

It has changed only for the last few years and it will likely be back to normal soon with a dollar value advantageous to trade.

Hopefully.

Before oil got going, the industrial East subsidized the agricultural West for a half century.

So that makes it ok to sit back and be sucking off the west.

So what about a place like Newfondland? They were a net recipient for decades,

Just since the cod stocks dwindled to near nothing.

have been a major contributor for the same period that Ontario went into the negative. This year, they will need assistance this year. (Alberta might if this goes on too long)

I guess.

Do we then withdraw political power from Newfoundland and Alberta until their economies recover, give it to Ontario?

Apparently.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Southern British Columbia (Map 2) | Maps Corner | Elections Canada Online <---- those boundaries. I do not understand your question.

Really? Do you have a good source for that claim? Hopefully. So that makes it ok to sit back and be sucking off the west.

Just since the cod stocks dwindled to near nothing. I guess. Apparently.

Another Western Fascist, I see.

 

[gerryh]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Another Western Fascist, I see.

actually, she's just stupid.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

I doubt the "industrial east" as you call it will ever be 'have' provinces again. They have no more industry thanks to free trade. They also have little in the way of valuable resources with Quebec being even worse off because of their socialist environmental regulation. Ontario may rebound slightly but Quebec and the maritime will most likely remain net recipients of equalization for the rest of time.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Another Western Fascist, I see.

hahahaha Do you do standup, too?

actually, she's just stupid.

But still, more than you can handle.