Quit picking on Obama……

[BaalsTears]

You are starting to talk like Rummy. Have you never heard of the Trail of Tears, Sand Creek massacre, Wounded Knee, what the Spanish did to the people who occupied the island the Columbus landed on? Archaeologists, Anthropologists and Ethnographers all say that between 60 and 100 million people died in the Americas as a direct result of European invasion. Many died of disease, some intentionally from infected blankets, many died at gun point. Then there was the residential school system where the Indian was beat out of them. In the beginning Indians were put into slavery until they were nearly wiped out from being worked to death and the slave owners started importing African slaves to replace them. Your grasp of history is severely lacking.

My knowledge isn't lacking. It's my compassion that is like an empty reservoir.

The Trail of Tears occurred at the direct order of the Founder of the Democratic Party...President Andrew Jackson. The Indians who complied with the order to move were the so-called Civilized Tribes. Their mistake was to have complied instead of fighting to the death. Death is preferable to dishonor and subjugation.

The Sand Creek Massacre was again an instance of attempted accommodation.

Wounded Knee Massacre was again a story of attempted compliance followed by attempted resistance. The Sioux were a day late and a dollar short. If one is going to roll over and die then do so.

Your numbers of dead are subject to dispute by historians. How could there be so many Indians? There were only 300,000 Indians in California when the Spanish arrived. Pathogens couldn't have wiped out so many. If pathogens did wipe out so many, then it is a shame that the Indians failed to domesticate and live with livestock like the Asians, Africans and Europeans. That's how the Old Worlders developed immunities.

The genocide of the Indians by Europeans and White Americans was terrible, but no more terrible than the Ottoman genocide and enslavement of the Byzantines, or the Mongol enslavement of the Han.

There have been at least four migrations of Mongoloids and Proto-Mongoloids into the New World. The Paleo-Indians were preceded here by Ainu type humans like Kennewick man. But the Kennewick type were wiped out after arrival of the Paleo-Indians. Why were the Inuit limited to the frozen margin of Alaska? Because the Athabascans didn't like illegal immigrants.

Genocide is part of human nature. Terrible from a moral standpoint, but useful from an evolutionary standpoint.

 

[Cliffy]

Your numbers of dead are subject to dispute by historians. How could there be so many Indians? There were only 300,000 Indians in California when the Spanish arrived. Pathogens couldn't have wiped out so many. If pathogens did wipe out so many, then it is a shame that the Indians failed to domesticate and live with livestock like the Asians, Africans and Europeans. That's how the Old Worlders developed immunities.

Let me clarify something. When I say 60 - 100 million died in the Americas, I am talking about north, central and south Americas. Modern estimates, based on recent archaeological findings estimate the population in 1491 to be around 90 - 110 million. about 90% were wiped out within the first 100 years, mostly by disease and the conquistadors. When the first explorers arrived in Florida, they did so with an ambulatory meat locker of 200 pigs. Small pox spread as far north as Hudson Bay within two years. I doubt there was a single tribe in North America that did not have a kill off from small pox within ten years of that expedition.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Just pointing to Cliffy's statements on 'original inhabitants'

Ah, so you didn't get the context.

PS - The various tribal entities we refer to First Nations in Canada had established a wonderful track record of genocide amongst their rivals... According to Cliffy, some examples of cannibalism too.

Well, that makes slaughtering them OK, then.

So, where do you want to apply the generous use of the word 'genocide'?... Only when it was a European involved?... The Indian on Indian killing don't count?

Interesting that no one is very forthright about the rampant enslavement of the vanquished during the inter tribal warfare that was a daily event.

No one? You certainly seem to be. All to justify the conduct of Europeans, whilst at the same time saying modern European countries in North America can't be held responsible.

I like the logic. All Indians, then and now, deserve whatever Europeans want to do to them because some Indians back when did bad things, but today's European countries in Europe and NA don't deserve anything bad done to them because some Europeans bach when did bad things.

Pretty much the textbook case of a double standard, enit?

In an environment of social sensitivity, I find the silence on that issue quite deafening

Good thing you have this here environment to retreat to, then.

Well, complete and total submission is one kind of Foreign Policy I suppose

You sound more like Cliffy every day.

 

[captain morgan]

Ah, so you didn't get the context.

Sure I do.... The over-the-top, dramatic over generalization and culture of victim hood?

Yeah, I get it just fine

Well, that makes slaughtering them OK, then.

I don't recall making anything close to that statement, but interesting that you appear to subscribe to such.

No one? You certainly seem to be. All to justify the conduct of Europeans, whilst at the same time saying modern European countries in North America can't be held responsible.

I take it that responsibility is a 1-way street for ya'll... Must make the whole I'm a poor wee victim mentality that much easier for you to believe

I like the logic. All Indians, then and now, deserve whatever Europeans want to do to them because some Indians back when did bad things, but today's European countries in Europe and NA don't deserve anything bad done to them because some Europeans bach when did bad things.

How you were able to come to this conclusion is baffling.

Pretty much the textbook case of a double standard, enit?

This entire issue is rife with double standards and hypocrisy

You sound more like Cliffy every day.

Hope that I didn't hurt your little feelers with those pics... Hell, I hope that BHO didn't bump his forehead on the shoes of those to whom he was doing the ultra-deep bow

 

[BaalsTears]

Let me clarify something. When I say 60 - 100 million died in the Americas, I am talking about north, central and south Americas. Modern estimates, based on recent archaeological findings estimate the population in 1491 to be around 90 - 110 million. about 90% were wiped out within the first 100 years, mostly by disease and the conquistadors. When the first explorers arrived in Florida, they did so with an ambulatory meat locker of 200 pigs. Small pox spread as far north as Hudson Bay within two years. I doubt there was a single tribe in North America that did not have a kill off from small pox within ten years of that expedition.

How many in what is now the United States? How many in what is now California.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Hope that I didn't hurt your little feelers with those pics... Hell, I hope that BHO didn't bump his forehead on the shoes of those to whom he was doing the ultra-deep bow

Not at all. Equating bowing with "complete and total submission" is the most hilariously stupid thing I've heard in weeks. Makes Cliffy seem sane and moderate by comparison.

 

[captain morgan]

Not at all. Equating bowing with "complete and total submission" is the most hilariously stupid thing I've heard in weeks. Makes Cliffy seem sane and moderate by comparison.

And here I thought that dwama and theatrics was the call of the day... I was only following suit

How many in what is now the United States? How many in what is now California.

One also has to wonder of the 60-100 million deaths that is quoted is the exclusive result of 'genocide'... I suppose that no other causes of death existed way back in the day

 

[BaalsTears]

...
One also has to wonder of the 60-100 million deaths that is quoted is the exclusive result of 'genocide'... I suppose that no other causes of death existed way back in the day

I'm a docent at a California State Park. The Dept. of Parks and Recreation is telling people there were 300,000 Indians living in California before first contact with the Spanish, and that California had the largest Indian population in the US because of the mild climate and abundance of resources.

 

[EagleSmack]

I wonder how they came to that conclusion.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I wonder how they came to that conclusion.

It's a complicated formula: Assumptions x BS x the square root of (the number of hectares in L.A. County / Kim Kardashian's butt size) + the number of Indian movies made this year x the number of lawsuits filed against the Washington Redskins / casino income in grams of gold = the number of Indians in California before it was California (temporary workers not included).

 

[captain morgan]

I'm a docent at a California State Park. The Dept. of Parks and Recreation is telling people there were 300,000 Indians living in California before first contact with the Spanish, and that California had the largest Indian population in the US because of the mild climate and abundance of resources.

Apparently Cliffy knows many ethnographers and anthropologists that can state, undeniably, that the 300,000 figure is horribly wrong.

 

[EagleSmack]

It's a complicated formula: Assumptions x BS x the square root of (the number of hectares in L.A. County / Kim Kardashian's butt size) + the number of Indian movies made this year x the number of lawsuits filed against the Washington Redskins / casino income in grams of gold = the number of Indians in California before it was California (temporary workers not included).

 

[BaalsTears]

I wonder how they came to that conclusion.

Apparently Cliffy knows many ethnographers and anthropologists that can state, undeniably, that the 300,000 figure is horribly wrong.

Democratic Governor Jerry Brown says that's the correct number because that's what the govt. archaeologists with the Dept. of Parks and Recreation tell him based on their studies of:
counts of villages that are known from historic, ethnographic, or archaeological records, multiplied by estimates of the average number of inhabitants per village; ecological estimates of the regional human carrying capacity, given aboriginal technologies and economies; population density extrapolations from better-documented regions to less well known ones; and extrapolations back from historic censuses, using estimated rates of population decrease.

 

[Cliffy]

Apparently Cliffy knows many ethnographers and anthropologists that can state, undeniably, that the 300,000 figure is horribly wrong.

Show me where I questioned that number. That bull of yours must have a really sore rectum.

Her is something that should give Tea Partiers a hard on:

 

[BaalsTears]

Obama has a "get out of jail free" card so no impeachment for him.

 

[Walter]

Very true words from the smartest VP ever.
Dick Cheney: Obama "The Worst President We Have Ever Had" | Video | RealClearPolitics

 

[Kreskin]

Very true words from the smartest VP ever.
Dick Cheney: Obama "The Worst President We Have Ever Had" | Video | RealClearPolitics

Cheney is a thug that should be in San Quentin. His opinion is worth shyt.

 

[Walter]

Cheney is a thug that should be in San Quentin. His opinion is worth shyt.

Such a hate you have.

 

[Cliffy]

Such a hate you have.

Kinda like your hate for Obama. Cheney is Dr. Strangelove: a psychopathic lunatic and should be in front of a firing squad.

 

[BaalsTears]

Kinda like your hate for Obama. Cheney is Dr. Strangelove: a psychopathic lunatic and should be in front of a firing squad.

Do you know what mirror imaging is?