Our cooling world
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
you going somewhere? :mrgreen:
how is it you can't bring yourself to post these gems of yours when the original posts are made... posts that presume to call into question Arctic sea-ice melting?
again: "how is it you can't bring yourself to post these gems of yours when the original posts are made... posts that presume to call into question Arctic sea-ice melting?"
how is it you only manage to post your bullshyte when counters to the original posts are made?
oh my! Hey CC deniers... when the 2015 Arctic "end of the freezing season" sea-ice maximum extent gets called this early... just where will 2015 melting end up relative to the 2012 reference point for all-time melting?
You can call it the end whenever you want. Doesn't make it fact.
More than 1,000,000 square kilometers above the average because the world is warming.
more Walter? More? Yet more of your nattering fixation with Antarctic sea-ice extent? It's a shame you can't actually step-up and respond to the pointed posts you continue to ignore... that you can't address the (repeated) challenge/questions put to you, hey!
all you've done is drop yet another of your C&P gems while making a lame comment about warming causing increased sea-ice extent... oh wait, hey now Walter... is this you finally coming around? :mrgreen: Here Walter, let me run the table for you again:
- why do you continue to ignore the lengthy post responses provided to you that clearly question/detail:- why you presume to draw equivalencies between the Arctic and Antarctic
- why you presume to ignore the reasons provided to you for a couple of recent years growth in sea-ice extent... reasons that speak to, in part, a warming influence in that regard?
- why you presume to not provide any interpretation of your own as to why the Antarctic sea-ice extent has increased... while repeatedly speaking sarcastically to 'warming causing ice to form"
- why you presume to ignore the fact Antarctic sea-ice extent melts per norm, almost entirely, year-to-year.
- why you presume to ignore the fact no like Arctic concept of significant multi-year sea-ice exists within the Antarctic exists
- why you presume to ignore the significant long-term trend in decreasing Antarctic ice mass
"c'mon Walter! When are you finally going to stop this continued denier play of yours over Antarctic sea-ice extent?". Apparently, you still have... an itch... to scratch! :mrgreen: I'll keep replying in kind to highlight images that speak to:- why you presume to ignore the reasons provided to you for a couple of recent years growth in sea-ice extent... reasons that speak to, in part, a warming influence in that regard?
- why you presume to not provide any interpretation of your own as to why the Antarctic sea-ice extent has increased... while repeatedly speaking sarcastically to 'warming causing ice to form"
- why you presume to ignore the fact Antarctic sea-ice extent melts per norm, almost entirely, year-to-year.
- why you presume to ignore the fact no like Arctic concept of significant multi-year sea-ice exists within the Antarctic exists
- why you presume to ignore the significant long-term trend in decreasing Antarctic ice mass
- the normal/typical yearly melt of Antarctic sea-ice extent... almost to its entirety showcasing there is no Antarctic multi-year ice accumulation concept (as exists within Arctic sea-ice).
- the Antarctic ice mass change (decrease)
these images:- the Antarctic ice mass change (decrease)
of course Walter, you're (purposely) trying to draw some type of meaning, equivalency, relationship, etc., between Arctic and Antarctic sea-ice extent (where the Arctic is dramatically decreasing over a long-term melting trend) and the Antarctic where an increase in sea-ice extent has been seen in the last couple of years... which, again (as you know) has been attributed to warming... and, again (as you know) melts to essentially its entirety every year.
Walter, do you think it actually makes sense to try to equate... draw equivalencies... between sea-ice across the earth? Care to offer your thoughts on this and presume to attempt to draw some equivalency, some relationship between the Arctic and Antarctic? I wonder what the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center would say about your attempt in his regard, hey Walter?
Question: Why don’t you publish a global sea ice extent number?
NSIDC Answer: The combined number, while easy to derive from our online posted data, is not useful as an analysis tool or indicator of climate trends. Looking at each region’s ice extent trends and its processes separately provides more insight into how and why ice extent is changing. Sea ice in the Arctic is governed by somewhat different processes than the sea ice around Antarctica, and the very different geography of the two poles plays a large role. Sea ice in the Arctic exists in a small ocean surrounded by land masses, with greater input of dust, aerosols, and soot than in the Southern Hemisphere. Sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere fringes an ice-covered continent, Antarctica, surrounded by open oceans. While both regions are affected by air, wind, and ocean, the systems and their patterns are inherently very different. Moreover, at any point in time, the two poles are in opposite seasons, and so a combined number would conflate summer and winter trends, or spring and autumn trends, for the two regions.
again, Walter... let me reinforce the key point you continue to (purposely) ignore concerning Antarctic sea-ice makeup as essentially made up of single-year ice (which, again, melts almost to its entirety each year):NSIDC Answer: The combined number, while easy to derive from our online posted data, is not useful as an analysis tool or indicator of climate trends. Looking at each region’s ice extent trends and its processes separately provides more insight into how and why ice extent is changing. Sea ice in the Arctic is governed by somewhat different processes than the sea ice around Antarctica, and the very different geography of the two poles plays a large role. Sea ice in the Arctic exists in a small ocean surrounded by land masses, with greater input of dust, aerosols, and soot than in the Southern Hemisphere. Sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere fringes an ice-covered continent, Antarctica, surrounded by open oceans. While both regions are affected by air, wind, and ocean, the systems and their patterns are inherently very different. Moreover, at any point in time, the two poles are in opposite seasons, and so a combined number would conflate summer and winter trends, or spring and autumn trends, for the two regions.
Scientists suggest it's principally first year sea-ice... and deformed sea-ice. You know, the kind of ice that regularly melts in a subsequent years melting phase. And, as you know Walter, Antarctic sea-ice typically melts, almost to it's entirety, each and every year.
now, again Walter... it keeps being stated for you, yet you continue to ignore the scientific based reasons put forward as to why the Antarctic sea-ice extent has been increasing the last few years:Assessment of Ice Type: First Year versus Multiyear Floes
All of the surveyed floes are most likely to be first year (FY) floes based on multiple lines of evidence (Table S1, Fig S1, S2). While in most cases MY ice is distinguished from thinner FY ice by the deep snow cover, thick ice and high freeboard, discrimination is more difficult in our case where the FY ice was also thick and heavily deformed and most floes had a deep snow cover. This evidence includes imagery showing lack of ice in the region at the end of the previous summer, ice morphology, ice properties, and snow cover characteristics.
All of the surveyed floes are most likely to be first year (FY) floes based on multiple lines of evidence (Table S1, Fig S1, S2). While in most cases MY ice is distinguished from thinner FY ice by the deep snow cover, thick ice and high freeboard, discrimination is more difficult in our case where the FY ice was also thick and heavily deformed and most floes had a deep snow cover. This evidence includes imagery showing lack of ice in the region at the end of the previous summer, ice morphology, ice properties, and snow cover characteristics.
1 - the warming ocean is causing slightly fresher sea surface water around the margins of the continent’s melting ice shelves; additionally rain and snowfall increases are also freshening ocean water. These changes are altering the composition of the different layers in the ocean there causing less mixing between warm and cold layers and thus less melted sea and coastal land ice:
Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice under Warming Atmospheric and Oceanic Conditions
The model shows that an increase in surface air temperature and downward longwave radiation results in an increase in the upper-ocean temperature and a decrease in sea ice growth, leading to a decrease in salt rejection from ice, in the upper-ocean salinity,and in the upper-ocean density. The reduced salt rejection and upper-ocean density and the enhanced thermohaline stratification tend to suppress convective overturning, leading to a decrease in the upward ocean heat transport and the ocean heat flux available to melt sea ice. The ice melting from ocean heat flux decreases faster than the ice growth does in the weakly stratified Southern Ocean, leading to an increase in the net ice production and hence an increase in ice mass. This mechanism is the main reason why the Antarctic sea ice has increased in spite of warming conditions both above and below during the period 1979–2004 and the extended period 1948–2004
2 - ozone levels decreasing over the Antarctic with an accompanying increase in the strength of cyclonic winds, The model shows that an increase in surface air temperature and downward longwave radiation results in an increase in the upper-ocean temperature and a decrease in sea ice growth, leading to a decrease in salt rejection from ice, in the upper-ocean salinity,and in the upper-ocean density. The reduced salt rejection and upper-ocean density and the enhanced thermohaline stratification tend to suppress convective overturning, leading to a decrease in the upward ocean heat transport and the ocean heat flux available to melt sea ice. The ice melting from ocean heat flux decreases faster than the ice growth does in the weakly stratified Southern Ocean, leading to an increase in the net ice production and hence an increase in ice mass. This mechanism is the main reason why the Antarctic sea ice has increased in spite of warming conditions both above and below during the period 1979–2004 and the extended period 1948–2004
3 - this increasing cyclonic wind strength which, in turn, creates polynyas (open water areas) that freeze to increase sea-ice
again, c'mon Walter! When are you finally going to stop this continued denier play of yours over Antarctic sea-ice extent?
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oh nooos, member taxi has just entered the thread... countdown to a scintillating taxi drive-by in 10, 9, 8...
when are you going to address the repeated challenges put to you to correlate the warming of your much favoured Holocene Optimum to today's relatively recent warming?
you're purposely avoiding speaking to your own multiple ongoing references made to the "Holocene Optimum". You're adding nothing here other than to show, yet again, you're peeling away from the repeated challenges put to you.
what's causing the sea-ice extent to increase? Notwithstanding it's seasonal, single-year ice that melts almost to its entirety, freezing season-to-melting season.
you keep doing nothing but posting images of Antarctic sea-ice extent... while you keep ignoring the repeated questions/challenges put to you. You got nuthin Walter... give it up! :mrgreen:
We are still in the Holocene and will be for another 1500 years or it could end tomorrow and then guess what? Continental glaciation returns.
The ice we see melting was created only 500 years ago. Relics of recent history as we crawl out of a deep freeze.
as before... as always... don't hesitate to provide your support/substantiation that the relatively recent warming can be attributed to simple "coming out the Little Ice Age"!!! :mrgreen:
all the questions/challenges put to you over Antarctic sea-ice extent await... why are you forever avoiding them? By the by, why do also continue to avoid the overall Antarctic ice mass loss. Please claim the satellite data is "fudged"!!! :mrgreen: