Living Christ

[MHz]

Moses was supposed to come fourth and he came fifth and lost God's horse money for the day.

The best Bible version, MHz is the one we open and read : )

Okay. that works for me.
There is still only one version that clarifies Ge:3:15 to it fullest and finest.

 

[darkbeaver]

(Philo Judaeus. The statement will hardly be contradicted now that he had formulated a systematic code of interpretation of ancient sacred writings, which, if it had been followed closely by scriptural exegetists, would have saved the science of theology from the confusion into which it has fallen ever since his day. It might even have prevented the schism between Judaism and its ungrateful daughter, Christianity, which was destined to drench the pages of two thousand years of religious history with needless rivers of blood. It would likewise have

-5-​

obviated the causes which led both religions to break up into numberless sects and denominations, thus perpetuating the reign of sullen hatreds and bigotries of every sort.
He elucidated the principle that the tomes of sacred writing bequeathed to early humanity by the gods or by men of far advanced evolutionary stature were susceptible of interpretation at four different levels of understanding: (1) the literal-physical; (2) the moral-sentimental; (3) the allegorical-intellectual; (4) the anagogical-mystical. That is, the books of Holy Writ could be read as historical events; as moral instruction; as intellectual conception of truth; as the incitement to the most exalted spiritual mystical transports. Even before Philo's day the great and learned Jewish scholars and interpreters of the Torah, the Tanaim and Amoraim, had expounded the principle that he who reads the Scriptures only at the level of their surface meaning will never grasp the truth of the living Word of God, that only he who pierces the coarser veils to grasp a far deeper sense and experience a more vivid illumination of consciousness will receive the cathartic purification of his nature. They went so far as to say that he who was content with the surface meaning of the words was a fool and a simpleton.)




(And ancient Egypt speaks up in this connection, too. In referring to the universal duality of spirit and matter, it poetizes the two polar energies as the Pool of the Sun and the Pool of the Moon; the Pool of the North and the Pool of the South; and again the Pool of Natron and the Pool of Salt. This natron is intriguing; for it starts with na-, and the chemical formula for salt is NA-CL. Obviously the nais for sodium. Chemistry might tell us of some connection here that would again assure us that these ancient Egyptians knew more occult truth than we have ever given them credit for. Some one could tell us more about natron and its properties. Na- is significant as beginning both "nature" and "name," and, oddly enough, in Scriptural usage, name and nature were close to identical in meaning. The patriarchs always called upon the name of the Lord. One's name was an intrinsic part of one's identity, one's nature. A new name was always given when the candidate in the Mysteries was assumed to have put on the new nature of divinity. This is directly stated in Revelation.
Turning from Egyptian to Latin, we find this naintroducing us to a new range of striking significance. In this language it is the base of one of the shortest verbs, whose stem is simply N- in the "A" conjugation, -- that is, its accompanying vowel is "a" and not "e" or "i." This verb built up on the nastem, nare, means two things that at first do not suggest any kinship or connection. It means both "to be born" and "to swim." From it on the side of "born" we get name, native, nature and natal; on the side of "swim" we have navy, naval, navel, natatorium (a swimming pool), and probably our natronalso. And how are being born and swimming connected? Any mother should know, or any physician: all birth is out of water, even that of all life on the earth out of the sea. "Moses" means drawn "out of the water." The Egyptian word for "birth" was mes. We find it in such Pharaonic names as Thothmes ("the born Thoth") and Rameses (the born god Ra) and others.

-20-​

But more to the point, we have it in the word Messiah, the born Iah (Jah), the three letter name of Jehovah. The human babe comes forth swimming in a sack of water. That Na speaks very clearly to our intelligence indeed. Jesus said that the "natural man" is born of water, while the "spiritual man" is born of air, as the Latin word "spiritus" means "air.")

(In actuality, souls are immersed in a vessel of living potential that is seven-eighths water, and it is sea water! And, open a vein and let it out and the oxygen immediately turns it red! The Red Sea! At last the astounding truth strikes home to the mind of a surprised world: this "Red Sea" which all Sons of God, the only "Israelites" ever spoken of in the Holy Scriptures, have to cross -- is the human body blood! With a clear, sharp sense of understanding will any deep-thinking mind now realize the dynamic force and literal truth adumbrated by the allegorical figure of our souls having to sink down in, wade through, swim across or be transported over a body of water, which on the side of a poetic figure, the Reed Sea, is green, but on the side of physical reality is actually red. Every life of eighty years entails an immersion of the fiery element of soul in these bodies of water and crossing them to the farther shore. Eventually, in the war between the fire of soul and the water of body, which incarnation precipitates, the unquenchable fire of soul must dry up the "moist elements" and permit the soul to cross without "getting its feet wet." So we have the beauty of the divine parable which could not be caught as long as allegory was mistaken for alleged Jewish history, most of which, if it is looked at closely and realistically as presumed actual event, is seen as preposterous and impossible.)THE RED SEA

We humans are all Moses and Israelites despite the common misappropriation and misapplication of the words.

And the word.

 

[MHz]

This was something that was posted on a site and the question was about Eve, would this not inspire at lease a question or two, the thread had one post after this one. I love it when **** like that happens.

""
OP
so what happens to eve?i mean, we hear the story and all that, and death comes into play

but what happens to eve?

like long run?
""



Probably not as racy as some soap-operas but the Bible's version does have it's moments. It's about as void of Scripture as I get and I hope it is a clue as to why I use so much as it is for me rather than for your benefit, sort of a smoke trail to mark my path to this point rather than it being random.

Ge:3:16:
Unto the woman he said,
I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;
in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.

Re:12:1-12:
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun,
and the moon under her feet,
and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried,
travailing in birth,
and pained to be delivered.

In a perfect world the fall would not have happened and the 12 stars represent her 12 oldest sons as mentioned in the OT.

They would the OT Saints that were resurrected and they and their original wife would become the 24 Elders around the Throne in Re:4. They would be given 12 thrones in the Temple where Christ has His throne. They would be the 'Shepherds' to the whole House of Israel who has just entered the Kingdom of God and knowing as much as a child does. By the end of the 1,000 years they and the Church are called Saints and their Flock will be all the ones that appear at the Great White throne event. In the new earth verses the people alive for the 1,000 years live inside New Jerusalem and the ones that come alive
Mary was the Mother of Jesus and Jesus died on the cross as fulfillment of the bruise to the heel part of Ge:3:15. The 'woman' for the last verses is the one that is most important to the people the bruise to the head will cause. The children of the Elect Lady in the John Epistles is that woman. She is also a seed of Eve as the history of Mary of Bethany, aka beloved Disciple of John the Baptist. Since she was the author of the Gospel of John that is her witness that we read. Elizabeth and Mary both had divine children and from when John was called when he was 'about 30' there was a period of 3 1/2 years before the cross and for the 3 1/2 years after the cross it was the Beloved Disciple that was the most important woman as far as the seed of Eve. All 3 would have been 'daughters of Aaron', two married and the beloved Disciple is a bride that was left at the alter (the cross and take care of Mom command) as on the return she is His wife, rather than any group being that role.


Re:12:5:
And she brought forth a man child,
who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
and her child was caught up unto God,
and to his throne.

Lu:1:44-49:
For,
lo,
as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden:
for,
behold,
from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For he that is mighty hath done to me great things;
and holy is his name.
And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

This is the Mary that sat and heard all the private teaching as well as making Jesus break out in tear when she chastised Him for not getting to Lazarus, her brother, before he died. Later she and Mary Mother of Jesus would have been in Greece and in the 70AD revolt it would have been because of Mary the mother of Jesus that she and the Beloved Disciple were exiled to the open air prison that was Patmos.

That is how it goes for Christ and the Beloved Disciple and the whole House of Israel. Jews ceased to qualify for OT salvation because they were not born on the land that is Judea in the Bible. In the return they are a static population so that also has to be taken into consideration.

Gentiles came to be called 'her children' when Peter started to teach Gentiles about God in Acts:10 that is when she would have had her first child. The 'good or bad' are people with a relationship defined in quality. 70AD is when the 12 tribes were mingled into the Nations and God just sorts them out, starting with 144,000 virgins, meaning unschooled about God. The power during that time is in the hands of the designated 2 witnesses. Something like Moses and Aaron.

The seed of Eve that is the eternal wife is the one in Re:21 that is carried to the mountain top. There are some women that would have made it to Rome with Paul until 70AD and then other Apostles would have rolled in from time to time. Mary M. and Peter could have been married and the other women would have been 'Elders' in the Church.

Lu:8:2-3:
And certain women,
which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities,
Mary called Magdalene,
out of whom went seven devils,
And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward,
and Susanna,
and many others,
which ministered unto him of their substance.

(In actuality, souls are immersed in a vessel of living potential that is seven-eighths water, and it is sea water! And, open a vein and let it out and the oxygen immediately turns it red! The Red Sea! At last the astounding truth strikes home to the mind of a surprised world: this "Red Sea" which all Sons of God, the only "Israelites" ever spoken of in the Holy Scriptures, have to cross -- is the human body blood! With a clear, sharp sense of understanding will any deep-thinking mind now realize the dynamic force and literal truth adumbrated by the allegorical figure of our souls having to sink down in, wade through, swim across or be transported over a body of water, which on the side of a poetic figure, the Reed Sea, is green, but on the side of physical reality is actually red. Every life of eighty years entails an immersion of the fiery element of soul in these bodies of water and crossing them to the farther shore. Eventually, in the war between the fire of soul and the water of body, which incarnation precipitates, the unquenchable fire of soul must dry up the "moist elements" and permit the soul to cross without "getting its feet wet." So we have the beauty of the divine parable which could not be caught as long as allegory was mistaken for alleged Jewish history, most of which, if it is looked at closely and realistically as presumed actual event, is seen as preposterous and impossible.)THE RED SEA

We humans are all Moses and Israelites despite the common misappropriation and misapplication of the words.

And the word.

In that myth didn't they become lord of the underworld? That would be what Jesus was when He was in death and He scooped a few people from there as a sign that he owned the whole lot. Those same ones would be the 24 Elders of Re:4: Being sent there would be at the time of the flood of water and it took 10,000 holy angels to do it. 50M x 10,000 is a number that would be a global population. Even stacked 10/1 that is a fair number of 'Neanderthals' that don't know when to lay down, ever.

I don't have an issue with that and would love to take it even further. The term 'habitable part of the earth' would be an area that 'we' could live in and in 'ancient times' that would be the last ice-age so the north and south areas would be ice-covered and desolate. That would leave the area that circles the globe that is now the desert belt. Whatever the reason science doesn't want to accept that the desert region turns green during that specific time. Software is available that allows that to be simulated on a computer using physics rather than an artistic approach. If that is resisted then how much more would there be to the sand in North Africa being scooped out of the Med and deposited in one 'large' event. Fact of fiction? The scablands are an example and the area I have walked over wound a bison skeleton 10ft down into a seam of fine gravel. The only way to get there is if the gravel was being disturbed by fast running water. The flow was also high enough at one point that a lot of gravel went further down the river bank to create an extra island in the stream. On the top of the far bank and a mile or so past that are riges of clean sand, sand that is identical to that which is found on the 'upstream side' so it also got there because of one event. The bones were dated about 10,000BC and a terrain map shown that there is a natural valley going through the are so a number of floods would have happened and the one that buried the bison would be why that particular spot hat 4% lime in the gravel (increasing it's value in the per yard level)
You can even call the whole area Summer and theology isn't affected. The prophecies point to the coming time as being an advancement in 'things' no matter how advanced we are by our own devices. The time before Noah could be a time where the Flintstones meet the Jetstones and that would be just fine in 'my one and only possible conclusion'.
Nor will it be bad for people so if I react to emotions immediately then I would have to praise the cause of that, right? Rather than fight laughter as would any sane person.
God's version has it falling apart in 3 1/2 years in that some changes are needed and in a perfect world that doesn't happen. That would be the 'first sign' that something isn't right IMO.

Here is a question, in those 'changes' is it possible that even with the oceans 400ft lower that the land was covered by fog to the height of where the Ark was supposed to have landed and that would have been the elevation that was first settled after the ice age was gone as the land below that elevation was no longer green like it used to be.

 

[darkbeaver]

In that myth didn't they become lord of the underworld?

In the beginning bifurcation into heaven and earth,( earth the mount), is below heaven,earth is the underworld. We became the lords of this world.

Here is a question, in those 'changes' is it possible that even with the oceans 400ft lower that the land was covered by fog to the height of where the Ark was supposed to have landed and that would have been the elevation that was first settled after the ice age was gone as the land below that elevation was no longer green like it used to be

.

The Arc is where the power of the God is placed, similarly in scritural lingo is the seed the vessel etc, The Arc is the human race collectivly which houses individually the spark of heavenly fire, the intellect capable of abstract thinking.

Here are some more juicy bits lifted from Let There Be Light on GenesisNew Lectures on the Ancient Wisdom--No 7.

These were the creations; but who was the Creator? Who was this God, this Jehovah, who formed the substantial worlds and ended by making man in his own likeness? Here we have a far move involved situation than that of the number of the creations. Indeed this is the item of the Genesis story that has thrown the interpretation farthest awry of the true sense.

In the first place we must defy bluntly all accepted scholastic theory as to there being two distinct creations by two different deities, the Eloistic in chapter 1, and the Jehovistic in chapter 3. Both versions contain the general material that sets forth the myth of creation as type and method. One presents some of it, the other some more of it; that is all.

It may come as a tremendous shock to the faith of the uninstructed Christian to learn that the word translated "God" in the opening verse is not "God" at all, in the sense in which this supreme Deity is characterized in all Christianity. He is not the Absolute, the Infinite, the Supreme, the One God of a monotheistic religion. On the contrary he is a deity far down the line of lesser gods in the hierarchy; a mere archangel. There is no intent to belittle him, but only to place him in his true rank and office in the creation drama.

The material supporting this assertion will prove highly surprising. The word in the original Hebrew texts of verse one is "Elohim". Any scholar knows that "-im" is a plural ending in Hebrew. Yet the committee translated it in the singular - "God". However, the fact that they knew the word was plural is attested by their translation of its possessive pronoun form in verse 26 in the plural, where "God" said, Let us make man in our image, in our likeness.

But grammar brings out another fact that is more startling still. Not only is the word plural, not singular; it proves, in the analysis, to be feminine, not masculine! The creative Lord, then, was feminine and plural. It is none other than the Elohim, of whom they were seven

The seven devils of Mary Magdalene Mary Magdalene and Her Seven Devils

In that myth didn't they become lord of the underworld?

In the beginning bifurcation into heaven and earth,( earth the mount), is below heaven,earth is the underworld. We became the lords of this world.

Here is a question, in those 'changes' is it possible that even with the oceans 400ft lower that the land was covered by fog to the height of where the Ark was supposed to have landed and that would have been the elevation that was first settled after the ice age was gone as the land below that elevation was no longer green like it used to be

.

The Arc is where the power of the God is placed, similarly in scritural lingo is the seed the vessel etc, The Arc is the human race collectivly which houses individually the spark of heavenly fire, the intellect capable of abstract thinking.

Here are some more juicy bits lifted from Let There Be Light on GenesisNew Lectures on the Ancient Wisdom--No 7.

These were the creations; but who was the Creator? Who was this God, this Jehovah, who formed the substantial worlds and ended by making man in his own likeness? Here we have a far move involved situation than that of the number of the creations. Indeed this is the item of the Genesis story that has thrown the interpretation farthest awry of the true sense.

In the first place we must defy bluntly all accepted scholastic theory as to there being two distinct creations by two different deities, the Eloistic in chapter 1, and the Jehovistic in chapter 3. Both versions contain the general material that sets forth the myth of creation as type and method. One presents some of it, the other some more of it; that is all.

It may come as a tremendous shock to the faith of the uninstructed Christian to learn that the word translated "God" in the opening verse is not "God" at all, in the sense in which this supreme Deity is characterized in all Christianity. He is not the Absolute, the Infinite, the Supreme, the One God of a monotheistic religion. On the contrary he is a deity far down the line of lesser gods in the hierarchy; a mere archangel. There is no intent to belittle him, but only to place him in his true rank and office in the creation drama.

The material supporting this assertion will prove highly surprising. The word in the original Hebrew texts of verse one is "Elohim". Any scholar knows that "-im" is a plural ending in Hebrew. Yet the committee translated it in the singular - "God". However, the fact that they knew the word was plural is attested by their translation of its possessive pronoun form in verse 26 in the plural, where "God" said, Let us make man in our image, in our likeness.

But grammar brings out another fact that is more startling still. Not only is the word plural, not singular; it proves, in the analysis, to be feminine, not masculine! The creative Lord, then, was feminine and plural. It is none other than the Elohim, of whom they were seven

 

[Motar]

Okay. that works for me. There is still only one version that clarifies Ge:3:15 to it fullest and finest.

There is nothing wrong with having a favorite Bible version, MHz. My favorite version is the one through which He accomplished my reconciliation and through which He continues to affect my restoration.

The problem with KJV-onlyism is that it leaves God out of the salvation/sanctification scenario. The assumption is that my superior human intellect led me to a superior text and I am intellectually gifted to understand and apply it. The apostle Paul knows better:

"My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV)

 

[gerryh]

There is nothing wrong with having a favorite Bible version, MHz. My favorite version is the one through which He accomplished my reconciliation and through which He continues to affect my restoration.

The problem with KJV-onlyism is that it leaves God out of the salvation/sanctification scenario. The assumption is that my superior human intellect led me to a superior text and I am intellectually gifted to understand and apply it. The apostle Paul knows better:

"My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV)

Nope, it's all about the book, and if'n ya don't believe the book, then you ain't no Christian.

 

[MHz]

Did you get a leaked script of the next transformer trilogy where the moon morphs into cyber-tron and the age of enlightenment begins on earth with the 'bots' now acting a bit more grown up that they do in Jude and Enoch. A metal forge would be a magnifying glass at about chem-trail height. Hollywierd could CGI something up and the script should be easy as the levels of deception are greatly reduced.

 

[darkbeaver]

Nope, it's all about the book, and if'n ya don't believe the book, then you ain't no Christian.

These are the exact words of Torquemada.

 

[Motar]

There is nothing wrong with having a favorite Bible version, MHz. My favorite version is the one through which He accomplished my reconciliation and through which He continues to affect my restoration.

The problem with KJV-onlyism is that it leaves God out of the salvation/sanctification scenario. The assumption is that my superior human intellect led me to a superior text and I am intellectually gifted to understand and apply it. The apostle Paul knows better:

"My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV)

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth...But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 14: 16-17; 25-26 NIV)

The apprehension/appreciation of truth is less a matter of human intellect and more a matter of piety before the Source of truth.

 

[Cliffy]

The apprehension/appreciation of truth is less a matter of human intellect and more a matter of piety before the Source of truth.

Then why don't you go directly to the Source instead of reading some book written by men?

 

[MHz]

There is nothing wrong with having a favorite Bible version, MHz. My favorite version is the one through which He accomplished my reconciliation and through which He continues to affect my restoration.

The problem with KJV-onlyism is that it leaves God out of the salvation/sanctification scenario. The assumption is that my superior human intellect led me to a superior text and I am intellectually gifted to understand and apply it. The apostle Paul knows better:

"My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV)

Does great wisdom come from taking in many Scriptures and doing little contemplation of from taking in one or two and cleaning all other wisdom by personal thought alone?
That method may have a lot of applications where it works, it doesn't work with God as the wisdom about him in in the whole passage rather than a fragment. Single verses are great for taking you to a passage, does your verse allow this information to also be taken in?

1Co:2:10-16:
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searcheth all things,
yea,
the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man,
save the spirit of man which is in him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man,
but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received,
not the spirit of the world,
but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak,
not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,
yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord,
that he may instruct him?
But we have the mind of Christ.

In this case favorite means more accurate. You stated that any version is suitable yet here there is a preferred one. That's also fine but if two version of the same book can result in two version of what it means then something needs to be looked at for a 'cause/effect'.

It's also fine that you post a single verse but if I ask for an explanation of the passage it comes from that seems to be something that doesn't manifest itself into a post. Vanity was the subject in one OT chapter and vanity is a bit more involved that just one verse. Same for the GWT from Re:20.

The verse you posted was about the Apostles ability to heal people and do the other 'signs following' that marked a person as having been sent by God in the time the Bible was still being written. Today we can only read their words and summarise them after considering them all.

1Th:5:21:
Prove all things;
hold fast that which is good.

 

[gerryh]

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth...But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 14: 16-17; 25-26 NIV)

The apprehension/appreciation of truth is less a matter of human intellect and more a matter of piety before the Source of truth.

Christ gave us the answer. He gave us the ability to get the answer. Without "the book". You've quoted it.

Then why don't you go directly to the Source instead of reading some book written by men?

because a book is less scary.

 

[Motar]

Single verses are great for taking you to a passage...

Tru dat, MHz.

 

[MHz]

I hate it when I don't have a come back. lol
later

 

[Motar]

Then why don't you go directly to the Source instead of reading some book written by men?

When I witness worthy moral conduct in those who claim an exclusive relationship with the Source apart from the Word, then I will consider their way, Cliffy.

 

[gerryh]

When I witness worthy moral conduct in those who claim an exclusive relationship with the Source apart from the Word, then I will consider their way, Cliffy.

Have you found that with those that depend on "the word"?

 

[Motar]

Have you found that with those that depend on "the word"?

Yes, Gerry.

 

[gerryh]

Yes, Gerry.

I haven't. Lots of hypocrites though.




Tell me, what's your stand on LGBT rights, and same sex marriage?

 

[darkbeaver]

Here comes Satan. He ain't as bad as we see in the movies though. I'm spending the evening with the Lord of This World. Sat he likes to be called. We drink a lot of beer together, when he's not busy with death and boiler maintenance.

 

[Motar]

Have you found that with those that depend on "the word"?

"In 1962, Don and his wife Carol moved to West Papua, Indonesia. With their 6-month-old son Steve in their arms, the Richardsons approached the Sawi tribe, not realizing that the very act of carrying their infant was a sign of peace to the 400 Sawi waiting to greet them. https://www.mnnonline.org/news/fifty-years-later-peace-child-tribe-still-following-christ/

I met the Richardsons in person, heard their testimony and read Don's book, Peace Child. I have also known and worked with missionary educators in Volgograd, RUS, missionary doctors in MI and missionary professors/administrators in MN. Along with their educational, healthcare and administrative service to others, all of these are Bible-believing Christians who speak the word to one another and to "whoever has ears to hear" today.

Tell me, what's your stand on LGBT rights, and same sex marriage?

Why don't you start a new LGBT rights/same-sex marriage discussion thread, Gerry?